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Old 02-07-2022, 01:40 PM   #1
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Options for self-extraction of stuck bus?

Future planning here.

I don't have much experience extracting vehicles from stuck situations. And certainly not vehicles the size of a bus. Trucks in sand - sure - but nothing 'axle-deep' that didn't also involve another vehicle and a tow rope.

Being as boondocking is our goal, in hopefully diverse locations, I'm afraid one day avoidance of obviously bad situations may not be enough.

I'd hope to start a discussion of any & all potential options... winches, traction mats, shovels, and all the stuff I don't know about. What's possible & practical? What's not. What have you done that's worked? What has failed?

Love to hear from anyone & everyone with anything even tangentially related to this subject.

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Old 02-07-2022, 02:51 PM   #2
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Just don't go there! Towing insurance is your friend. You will not be able to pull this out if it is stuck, winching is the only way. Stay away from muddy conditions.
Be familiar with the tow hook locations on you Bus.
If you pay a professional to winch it out, the damage is on their insurance.
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Old 02-07-2022, 03:00 PM   #3
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I appreciate that advice, Jimmy. I consider that our front-line defense.
My lack of experience in such situations with more traditional vehicles is, in fact, a direct result of my practicing your advice whenever able!
But not going there requires knowing where there is. And with a bus, I don't have any frame of reference for what's acceptable, and what's not. Which means that any time we depart from asphalt, it's possible what we thought to be solid and trouble-free would end up being something else entirely.
It's those "I thought we'd be fine" scenarios I'm concerned about.

You mention winching. One of the options I was curious about was an on-board winch. Would an on-board winch be of practical use?
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Old 02-07-2022, 03:10 PM   #4
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The size of winch you would need would be pretty big and expensive. And then you have to have a solid object to hook it to. Tire chains can be helpful.
Most stuck RV type vehicles get stuck by trying to turn around when there is insufficient room, and they fall in the ditch. A good plan is to have a Bike on board to check out the road ahead. A bit bit of caution can save you a bunch of grief!
I got my old bus stuck in a campground in 1 inch of slippery mud. I just waited until 6 am when the mud was frozen solid, and drove it right out (15 feet!)
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Old 02-07-2022, 03:21 PM   #5
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So stay away from mud in less-than-freezing temps. Got it
Seriously, thanks a lot. This helps plenty.
Are chains useful for scenarios other than ice/snow? Are there different versions of chains that work better than others in differing types of terrain?
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Old 02-07-2022, 03:23 PM   #6
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what i did

first, I spent about two hours a day for month reading about "winch comparison tests". several of the tests showed similar results. There was one magazine that bought 22 winches. 25% of the winches did not work correctly right out of the box. They said they spent three months testing all these winches.

The final winner --- a winch from harbour frieght! based on this test and the results of several winch testing articles I bought a 9,000lb winch = Badlands is the brand.

I have used this three times already to unstick other peoples buses. two of them bigger than yours.. 35' footer full size busses.

I have a front and rear receiver on my busses - I now have more than one bus. I usually have the winch hanging off the rear. I carry snatch block rated at 20,000 lbs about 50' of chain rated at 25,000 lbs along with assorted other stuff for the winch. I also have a 3" diameter 1/4" wall steel post about 5 feet long and a post driver in case I need some thing to attach the winch to in soft ground with no solid objects around.

I am thinking about changing to the 12,000 lb badlands.

I carry two 20 ton jacks and some blocking. I would like to find about four pieces of wwII landing mat each piece about 20' long to hang on the outside of the bus... two pieces on each side. But that stuff seems to be very hard to find these days. at least I have not found any at what I would call a reasonable price.

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Old 02-07-2022, 03:26 PM   #7
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hubbard bus

I like the michelin xds tire because of the tread. a bit noisey though

and expensive



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Old 02-07-2022, 03:35 PM   #8
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Thank you much, William.

So the snatch block(s)... is their purpose to magnify force? I was reading up on winches prior to posting and it seemed like anything capable of moving a bus would have to be huge (like Jimmy said). Is there a formula or rule of thumb for figuring out what combination you could use together?

Have you actually used your stationary post, or something like it, in practice? Do you know it's up to the task? I'd be afraid of a 3" projectile coming back towards me at high velocity!

These are our drives, which I'm feeling pretty good about:

https://commercial.firestone.com/en-...-and-bus/fd663
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Old 02-07-2022, 04:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
I like the michelin xds tire because of the tread. a bit noisey though

and expensive



william

I have the Gnarly drive tires Uniroyoal (michelin) RD30.. and they are the noisiest damn tires ever but they do bite pretty hard..
the real issue is in mud a bus engine at low RPM isnt goign to have enough torque to spin the tires anyway.. and its REAL EASY to burn up an automatic transmission trying.. even an MT643 or MD3060 will burn up in a matter of minutes of trying to unstick from Mud or sand.. the prospect is a little better if the tires do spin (snow or ice) and your trans gauge very well may not show how hot it is unless it has an internal sensor.. you wont get the pan fluid hot.. you'll burn it up from the inside out.. the torque converter can get the fluid hot extremely quick... then that shifting from R to D to R to D over and over and thats the end of the C1 (and maybe C3) clutches on an allison 1000 / 2000 (prob same on 3000 though I dont have a clutch schedule for the 3000 in front of me to see which ones will take the brunt)..





your transmission cooler is worthless when the vehicle is stopped and the coolant will be hot from working the engine..
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Old 02-07-2022, 04:16 PM   #10
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i like pavement first. these are heavy, and it doesnt take much.

i got stuck ion my flat driveway.

once, i pulled up close to the house to load the bus fofr a trip. there is a mild indent in the soil from a water line a few years ago. the weight of the bus pushed that indent down another inch or so, and the back wheel of the bus, the one with power, lifted right off the the flat drive and i was stuck.

i hooked a chain to the bus and got my pickup hooked up. the gf in the truck and me in the bus. i told her we only had to go a foot or so and it be good.

i stuck the bus in reverse, she started pulling with everything the tundra has, and we moved that foot prett easy. i was pretty relieved.

i set the brake, shut the bus down. got out, and gf was .... drifting.... kind of. digging a hole to china for sure. she was chained to the bus and had the truck throwing dirt everywhere, trying to break us loose.

the weight of the truck was pretty useless against the weight of the bus.

well, anyway.... getting stuck happens

be careful
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Old 02-07-2022, 04:26 PM   #11
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One thing to be aware of when winching -- always plan for the cable to break and go flying back toward the winch -- it can be terrifying. A 20,000 lb rated snatch block is only rated for the least rated component in the system -- usually the winch cable. But it can be very useful for doubling the pulling capacity.
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Old 02-07-2022, 04:56 PM   #12
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Block & Tackle

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post
Future planning here.

I don't have much experience extracting vehicles from stuck situations. And certainly not vehicles the size of a bus. Trucks in sand - sure - but nothing 'axle-deep' that didn't also involve another vehicle and a tow rope.

Being as boondocking is our goal, in hopefully diverse locations, I'm afraid one day avoidance of obviously bad situations may not be enough.

I'd hope to start a discussion of any & all potential options... winches, traction mats, shovels, and all the stuff I don't know about. What's possible & practical? What's not. What have you done that's worked? What has failed?

Love to hear from anyone & everyone with anything even tangentially related to this subject.
The old way. Multiple pullys & lots of rope/cable. Mechanical Advantage.

The Sea Scouts have a good explanation on the subject.
Purchase & Tackles | 4th Gillingham Sea Scouts

------------------

Any mechanism used, for towing a bus out of the mud, will work a fraction of the effort to complete the task. The bus will move about 1 ft per 5 ft of rope pulled, but that's the way the work effort is spread out.
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Old 02-07-2022, 08:06 PM   #13
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Appreciate all the input, folks. DeMac, that's an education all in itself. Never thought about the trans. Lots to chew on.
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Old 02-07-2022, 09:14 PM   #14
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How I chose what I have

Snatch block. So the winch is supposed to be able to generate 9,000 lbs worth of pulling force. Now the cable goes around the snatch block. So that would be 9,000 lbs on each cable. 18,000 lbs total. My 1954 is about 12,000 lbs total. So, in theory, I should be able to pull my bus straight up when I use a snatch block. There are all sorts of long hair force diagrams that math uses to describe how much force it takes. I have winched a 35’ bus out of frozen mud ruts 10” deep, single line pull. I ran one 25’ chain around a big tree, then 25’ of chain from tree towards bus. Attached winch to chain. Then ran winch line to hook on the front of the bus. Lines were about 20 degrees from straight pull. I don’t think that 9,000 lb winch even groaned. It doesn’t happen fast, but in about 5 minutes we had the bus pulled up hill out of the hole that were dug by the rear tires and back onto a packed gravel driveway. I should have winched first. We spent 6 hours trying to dig it out in sub 20 degree weather.

Second bus was also about 35 foot but slid off a driveway that was iced and had a lot of “crown” on the roadway. Lost grip and just slid slow motion into the ditch. That one we pulled using a fence line corner posts as anchor point. I used every chain, cable, and tow line we could find, we pulled that bus along the ditch with rears slowly turning under power along the ditch until we got to a field drive that gave us a way to ramp out of the ditch. That pull, I was really worried about damage to the driveshaft and tried really hard to avoid putting the weight of the bus on it. At one point to keep the bus from getting high centered, took every rock we could find in about a mile stretch of road and dumped into the ditch so the rear wheels would sit high enough with out getting the edge of the roadway draggin on the drive shaft. Long muddy ditch.

I have seen a bus, mine, get stuck in a park, I got into the damp grass and the highway tread rear tires just spun on the grass, little bitty incline. That is when I started looking at tires like the Michelin XDS for rear tires.

William
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Old 02-07-2022, 09:35 PM   #15
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When in doubt, stop.

Walk ahead, for miles if necessary

especially on a track where you won't be able to easily turn around.

Gathering a convoy, leaving the bus behind exploring in the little Jeeps will help keep you out of trouble.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythomas View Post
Just don't go there! Towing insurance is your friend.
^^ THIS ^^
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Old 02-08-2022, 12:07 AM   #16
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So stay away from mud in less-than-freezing temps. Got it
Seriously, thanks a lot. This helps plenty.
Are chains useful for scenarios other than ice/snow? Are there different versions of chains that work better than others in differing types of terrain?
I like our chains "OnSpot" brand. Flip a switch and they deploy automatically. YEE HAW. Not sure how they'll work in non snow/ice conditions.




Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythomas View Post
The size of winch you would need would be pretty big and expensive. And then you have to have a solid object to hook it to.
As mentioned....SNATCH BLOCKS.... or more precisely a "block and tackle" set, even a small winch can do a lot of work. The diagrams above showing the sets with more and more pulleys..... that's how you move massive amounts of weight with light tackle.
The "twofold purchase" (two pulleys at each end) creates a 4 to 1 advantage so a 10,000 pound winch (so long as the blocks can handle the load) can dead lift 40,000 pounds.
A 5 ton (10,000 pounds) manual chain hoist at Harbor Freight is $160. A lot of work but simple and nothing but manpower required.
A 12,000 pound electric Badlands winch from Harbor Freight is about $360 plus you have to have sufficient power to the mount point(s).
ONE NOTE ON THE MANUAL HOIST.... you should rig so that the leg the hoist is attached to is pulling away from the pulling tackle and that you are a good distance from that tackle to avoid injury should things break (and they do indeed break.
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Old 02-08-2022, 12:11 AM   #17
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When in doubt, stop.
Walk ahead, for miles if necessary especially on a track where you won't be able to easily turn around.

We're lazy, we have a drone with FPV so we will stop and FLY AHEAD.....LOL
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Old 02-08-2022, 10:31 AM   #18
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One thing to be aware of when winching -- always plan for the cable to break and go flying back toward the winch -- it can be terrifying. A 20,000 lb rated snatch block is only rated for the least rated component in the system -- usually the winch cable. But it can be very useful for doubling the pulling capacity.
thats why you always throw a coat or blanket over the line/chain to stall it from whipping all the way back to you.
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Old 02-08-2022, 10:35 AM   #19
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here's an interesting option for yall to try. id recommend a 4x4 tho

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Old 02-08-2022, 12:04 PM   #20
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I realize this is mainly about getting un-stuck.. but something to think about is if parking on softer ground.. Move periodically rather than stay camped in one spot for weeks.. even if you just move the bus a few feet every couple days it helps to alleviate sinking that occurs over time..
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