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Old 11-23-2021, 10:36 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
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R.I.P. my Cummins 8.3 mechanical friends, This has to be Illegal

Help there's been a Crime committed, not sure but it seems like a felony to me, better get me....... Inspector Clouseau. It was a cold, dark rainy day in the Pacific Northwest(they all are haaa), in a nice little town not far from the cesspool that they call Portland. It was on this day of complete loss of all common sense that the unsuspecting victims sit quietly, proud of themselves for probably being the most dependable buses in the fleet. The victims are confused because some shiny new buses full of sensors, computers and tier 4 motors with regen, you know that kind where the exhaust burns the hair off school children as they walk past, well these shiny things were sitting in their spots. The old bus says " Oh here comes the bus mechanic, they must be coming to put us back in our spots, what's that funny thing in your hand? Hey that tickles, hey stop it that hurts, STOP PLEASE SOMEBODY HEL.................. flatline. Just like that couple dozen buses with 8.3 mechanical motors and md3060 transmissions bunch of holes punched in the motor block and transmission housings. It's ok though because each bus gets its own yellow light procession to the wrecking yard. Makes me sick to my stomach but probably makes some people feel real good I guess. I knew that they were doing it in California but now parts of Oregon also. Just wandering if others are hearing of these heinous acts, wandering how many other states this is happening in and how it makes others feel?

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Old 11-23-2021, 11:49 AM   #2
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Someone poked holes in your housing ?
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Old 11-23-2021, 11:53 AM   #3
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Some years back in the California Democratic Republic (think DDR) the state actually funded a re-power program for Crown buses. The re-powers were done in Salinas. When the re-power was done the state came out watched while the Detroits that came out of the crowns were destroyed by hitting the engine block with a sledgehammer. The good parts came off the engines first though.
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Old 11-23-2021, 12:41 PM   #4
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they are doing it here in ohio.. 40 6 window shorty bluebirds with IH DTA360s and DT466 mechanicals were all Smashed in favor of shiny new IC's last year.. well actually 37 were smashed.. 2 were "saved" and are still on the road.. No comment on how but they are enjoying new lives registered and insured by their owners.. 1 was kept by the school un registered and unscrapped and is used as a cart on a lot..



the other 37 are no more.. granted many of them were seeing the effects of the over-zealous central ohio salt brigades but they all ran fantastic..

im sure the schools are ewnjoying their shiny new machines.. although some are being enjoyed from afar as i see them parked in front of the local Rush truck center repair garage rather frequently...
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Old 11-23-2021, 05:43 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Jax Beach, FL
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Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000 28ft
Engine: Cummins ISB 5.9 24v, MD3060
Rated Cap: 14
Talked to a bus dealer in Arizona and he said that the Volkswagen settlement funded a subsidy to replace pre-emission diesels as long as the trade in had a hole drilled through the block. There was a massacre of wonderful bus engines then.


Does anyone have any sort of independent research on the pollution of pre emissions diesels and post? Just curious what percentage changed? I know we lost some MPG, so wonder if the additional fuel burn was calculated.
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Old 11-23-2021, 09:03 PM   #6
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There are cradle to grave studies that certain political groups often don’t want shown as they aren’t favorable.. for instance many school districts won’t repair a more modern engine if it fails.. which the failure rate of emission engines is much higher than old mechanicals.. thus the cradle to grave takes into account a higher number of vehicles scrapped at earlier ages then previously done.. even with recycling a lot of the parts of a bus that produce the most emissions during manufacturing are not properly recycled.. ie the glass and plastics/vinyls are crushed and sometimes melted away from metals and then discarded other times land filled.. these studies are difficult to find as they don’t make tree huggers the champions they set out to be ..
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Old 11-23-2021, 09:14 PM   #7
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
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Chassis: TC2000 28ft
Engine: Cummins ISB 5.9 24v, MD3060
Rated Cap: 14
Not to mention, there's not much to a bus. Most of the bodies are in great shape and could be repowered for 30k vs $150k for a new body. At a time when every school district is having budget issues as well. Also they said the chip shortage has got the Cummins shop full of trucks and buses waiting on parts. All the electronic def stuff has these busses in for diagnostic every 6 months pulling codes.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:01 AM   #8
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Actually at 10-15 years in many states the bodies are in serious trouble or on their way, so cost becomes a big concern if you blow an engine at 7 or 8 years do you replace it or move on..

Southern and some western states you are right the bodies may have another good 8-12 years left..

But the fact remains if the old engines went 2 or 3 years on average longer than the new, that’s a whole lot less emissions related to manufacture of new ones..

Good data on current Gen engines obviously isn’t there yet since most current Gen stuff is now just 5 or 6 years old.

If big rigs are any indication there are sure a lot of them for sale pretty cheap with 500-750k miles indicating to me there must be a large bill forthcoming to keep them on the road.. ie overhauls on modern engines are much pricier..
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:47 AM   #9
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The sustainability part of the equation is ignored by almost everyone when it comes to vehicles, The last vehicles that you could really keep on the road (light duty trucks and cars) were built during the 90's, and some maybe up until about 2005. All the later diesels are problematic, and with the advent of direct injection, turbocharging, variable displacement, and variable valve timing on gasoline engines-- their serviceable life is maybe 150,000 miles at most (in my opinion) and if mechanical ailments don't get them, the electronics with render then either unfixable-- or not economically viable to fix.

Throwaway stuff-- and just how much pollution does it take to manufacture another vehicle? Plus-- this turns into a tax on the poor-- people who can trade every three or four years don't feel this-- but folks with limited incomes who need to get to work are not going to have many choices as to what they can afford that will be reliable.

We might wind up looking like Cuba-- but our EPA will never allow that. Maybe just need to send everyone a monthly check and tell them to stay at home.... zero emissions....
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Old 11-24-2021, 09:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorchDog View Post
The sustainability part of the equation is ignored by almost everyone when it comes to vehicles, The last vehicles that you could really keep on the road (light duty trucks and cars) were built during the 90's, and some maybe up until about 2005. All the later diesels are problematic, and with the advent of direct injection, turbocharging, variable displacement, and variable valve timing on gasoline engines-- their serviceable life is maybe 150,000 miles at most (in my opinion) and if mechanical ailments don't get them, the electronics with render then either unfixable-- or not economically viable to fix.

Throwaway stuff-- and just how much pollution does it take to manufacture another vehicle? Plus-- this turns into a tax on the poor-- people who can trade every three or four years don't feel this-- but folks with limited incomes who need to get to work are not going to have many choices as to what they can afford that will be reliable.

We might wind up looking like Cuba-- but our EPA will never allow that. Maybe just need to send everyone a monthly check and tell them to stay at home.... zero emissions....

thats exactly it.. its great that we have 2.0 litre engines putting out 300 Horsepower nowadays but how long will they last? this stuff is too new to know.. VVT tech seems to be proving itself as decently reliable but its pricey to fix.. even a single car repair of 1000 bucks can sink a lower or lower-middle income person...



im one of those that trades for brand new every 2 or 3 years.. never exceeding the warramty period.. the broken credit system in the U.S. means the lowest cost lease deals and 0% finance rates are available to seemingly the people with the most money...



back to the subject at hand I somehow just dont see modern busses going 600k miles like the old 2 stroke detroits did.. butthe modern busses dont smoke up the cities.. instead they smoke up the rural areas where the factories that build their parts are located..



the manufacturers of vehicles which portray themselves as enemies to the EPA's stricter regulations actually champion them.. for one, vehicles in the graveyard sooner means more new ones sold.. two, profits are generally a percentage of sale price on a new one.. more EPA stuff means higher price means more profit. three, Many people only buy or install OEM parts and many people take them to the dealer even well after warranty period which means more $$ in parts for said manufacturer..



its a really tough cycle to ever break when you have both the EPA and the manufacturers eating the same pizza..
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:31 PM   #11
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Some years back in the California Democratic Republic (think DDR)...
Never spent a day in the DDR, didya.
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Old 11-27-2021, 08:48 PM   #12
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I just came here to agree about Portland
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Old 11-27-2021, 08:51 PM   #13
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I just came here to agree about Portland
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Old 11-27-2021, 09:23 PM   #14
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
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Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 84 passenger
Nashville TN has recently been selling buses that they explain in the listing as meeting Volkswagon settlement requirements. They have holes in the engine block, holes in the transmission, and the frame rails have to be cut. But the body is good. What I have watched are selling less than $500.00, maybe that's scrap price for someone that has the equipment to haul them out.
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Old 11-27-2021, 09:30 PM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
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You got a link? I'm looking for an BB All American to salvage some parts off of.
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Old 11-28-2021, 02:30 PM   #16
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Engine: Cat 3126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fo4imtippin View Post
You got a link? I'm looking for an BB All American to salvage some parts off of.
The Nashville buses sell on Govdeals
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Old 11-29-2021, 07:52 AM   #17
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holes in the transmission .. interesting as thats not part of the settlement nor EPA.. they asre throwing away good transmissions that could be worth more than the scrap value of the bus for no reason..
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Old 11-29-2021, 10:51 PM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
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Engine: Cat 3126
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I wondered about cutting the frames also, but that's what the listings say. I haven't been to look at any of them yet since I'm really not interested in scrap buses.
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