Should i get an 04?

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

Any vehicle with an EGR or COMPUTER is going to have problems.
My old 77 truck was the first year for that engine to have problems and never got it to run like I wanted until I ripped that mess off it.
My wife's 2014 car is having emissions problems at least in the F'ing computer anyway.
My 2010 duramax goes to low power and refuses to run more than 15-20 on the interstate until I get out and unplug the MASS AIR sensor. With that jumped out it runs like a champ no smoke out of the exhaust at all until I hammer down running 65 in a 70 zone hauling a load.
Usually the one leading the pacK but with a loaded trailer you get caught up some time.
That duramax is hitting 400,000 and I have jumpered a lot of sensors on it instead of deleting them but I can hook them up in the garage paring lot and pass inspection every year.

So can the EGR system be removed and solve the issue? I live in a county that requires no emission inspections. As far as pricing and 2005 being a dime a dozen on used lots, my experience in searching has found that the prices for used buses jump substantially at that year and hardly ever see them cheaper than an 04 or earlier.

[brokedown]

Now I will say not to take this the wrong way, but that may not be realistic when making a blunt point.

I included a link to the 2004 emissions changes. If you don't believe a random guy on the internet who owns a couple buses, do yourself a favor and do the research. It's easy to find and in plain English. There is no reason we should even be having this debate, your information is provably factually wrong and if you choose to believe otherwise that is called willful ignorance. This isn't opinion, this isn't debate, this is federal law on the books.

We all want everyone to get the best bus they can and have all the success in the world. There is no conspiracy to keep 2004 model year buses to ourselves.

Of course there are people with egr motors that haven't blown up. There are also multiple class action lawsuits against every diesel manufacturer I linked you to on a different thread on the same topic. There are also people with 53 block 5.9 Cummins that haven't cracked. That doesn't change the fact that these are well known flaws that only a malicious person would recommend to someone they didn't know.

Let's not agrue the color of the sky or which way is up. Some things just are the way they are even if it's not how we wish it were. Please if you want to continue to don't this, bring data that isn't the opinion of some mechanic you know, the data is out there.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

And I can say that I am past due for inspection because my tires have aged out and am pretty sure my shop would pass me this year and tell me to resolve buy the next but it's only because they see the low mileage I have put on the vehicle.
For me it's different I want taller tires when I have to spend that ind of money for them and to do that I have to buy different rims. Money wise my bus is down until I get what I want for sneakers.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

Originally Posted by o1marc

So can the EGR system be removed and solve the issue? I live in a county that requires no emission inspections. As far as pricing and 2005 being a dime a dozen on used lots, my experience in searching has found that the prices for used buses jump substantially at that year and hardly ever see them cheaper than an 04 or earlier.

Only if you have the capability to reprogram the computer parameters to not see them and make the engine computer controls do what you want them to do.
My bus and my old truck have NO computer my work truck is 2001 and most sensor are normally open or normally closed in a three wire set up so you can jumper for what you need.
I only now what I have to work on as for as electrical.
Motor wise I have had my hands into many as far as the internals and making them run with minimal electronics.
But I looked into a Mercedes in a big rig getting a full in frame and they have the injector wires ran inside under the head right next to the Pistons?
Electronic/computer mess is money period if it has to be worked on.

[Gdog 5651]

Slightly off topic but if you think your tires are getting long in the tooth either park the bus or get new skins experience speaking here I have a 76 Sportking that I have had for 28 years forgot how old the tires were but looked great, on a short trip (90 miles) RR blew out removed the wheel well blew apart the bottom of the fridge and macerated some cabinets not to mention the cost of new underwear and I was lucky compared to others.

[brokedown]

The state of things right now is that pre-2004 buses are the sweet spot. Even sweeter is if you can go full mechanical with a Cummins of an older Navistar. The drivetrain generation starting in 2004 is plagued with problems, and the ones newer than that (when you start using DEF) seem to be reliable again but are also so new that schools are buying them to save a pile of cash over a new bus. In another 10 years that bar will have moved, and maybe 2010+ buses will be good buys the way 1999 buses are today.

[cadillackid]

sometimes you can remove emissions equipment, other times not.. mainly due to the ECM... school busses and MD trucks are a minority in the commercial world afyer they go out of normal service.. so there is not much aftermarket love for custom software to perform EGR or DPF deletes. there used to be manmy many companies that would do emission deletes on class 8 semi trucks.. but it is illegal.. and many started getting busted as the EPA cracked down... but there a lot more semis with guys doing mods than school busses..

a school system wouldnt dare do emission mods to busses.. the fallout would be epic if it got discovered..

emissions on busses are still problematic.. yes they have learned over the years to get better at it.. with multiple small re-gens on the fly. when the bus is under load and warmer, etc.. but Bluebird has recently re-introduced a gasoline bus and its selling quite a few units... the MPG's are within striking range of diesel and the complexity is less.. propane busses which dont require the same crap as diesel busses are pretty popular as wel las CNG units..

if diesels had no issues there wouldnt be so much development in other types in my mind.. esp when district mechanical departments are likel;y well tooled to perform diesel repairs but not so much on other platforms.. some emissions repairs require the busses go to the dealer.. theres always a bunch of city of columbus IC's. sitting at rush truck every time I drive by.. columbus has a fleet of 700 or so busses and a pretty advanced mechanical dept I understand.. so for them to be sending busses on a hook to the dealer means its likely emissions related..
-Christopher

[o1marc]

Just putting questions out there. I have no intentions of buying an 05 or newer, nor would I attempt to remove said system unless it was easy to override.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Just putting questions out there. I have no intentions of buying an 05 or newer, nor would I attempt to remove said system unless it was easy to override.

it used ot be easy to get rid of them.. pull em off stuff a resistor in place and go... then the computer got smarter... so did the devices.. cat and mouse game till the EPA stepped in with lawyers Guns and money...

-Christopher

[RRRVBUS]

Originally Posted by jjhwick119

The reason why im asking is some of their buses have a commercial inspection, and some a state inspection. im wondering the differences,such as is one more strict than the other so i know that bus was more thoroughly looked over

Here in Maine it’s by gvwr any vehicle over 10,000lb gvwr is automatically commercial no matter it’s used commercially or not. Same basic inspection but it costs like twice as much.

[Gdog 5651]

The problem with emissions diesel has not improved even a small bit it has gotten worse every trucking co in america will tell you that fully 99% of its fleet no matter the age post 2005 has spent more time in the dealer shop for emissions repair and multiple times for the same emissions repairs over and over they are not close to solving the problem and the resurging sales of alternate fuel units including gas attest to this. post 2010 vehicles are worse not better than previous emission diesels and as long as Uncle Sam keeps demanding cleaner diesels the problem is destined to keep getting worse.DEF was supposed to make it better but as those engines get some mileage on them their problems appear to be worse than before and repairs very much more expensive.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Gdog 5651

The problem with emissions diesel has not improved even a small bit it has gotten worse every trucking co in america will tell you that fully 99% of its fleet no matter the age post 2005 has spent more time in the dealer shop for emissions repair and multiple times for the same emissions repairs over and over they are not close to solving the problem and the resurging sales of alternate fuel units including gas attest to this. post 2010 vehicles are worse not better than previous emission diesels and as long as Uncle Sam keeps demanding cleaner diesels the problem is destined to keep getting worse.DEF was supposed to make it better but as those engines get some mileage on them their problems appear to be worse than before and repairs very much more expensive.

^ This is more or less what the Navistar techs at the dealer told me.

[jjhwick119]

Thanks everyone for all the good info I needed, and others! I'm gonna go check them out Monday or Tuesday hopefully if my work let's me leave a little early. I never heard back from the email, so I'll be calling em on Monday to see what the deal is

[cadillackid]

not to bring politics into this board.. but my belief is that the Super tall EPA standards were designed not to "help the environment" but to kill off the diesel.. and it sounds like thats what is beginning to happen... Longevity on the road being the resounding items in this thread that point to emissions compliant diesels are not reliable.. I myself was not afraid of them until I am reading more and more real-world accounts of failures.. and seeing so many nearly new skoolies in the local Rush truck venter every time I go there... not to mention the re-introduction of Gasoline busses to the mix.. be interesting to see if someone dares to try a gasoline semi-truck in real world...
-Christopher

[Gdog 5651]

Gasoline Semis are unlikely because the engineering does not exist to make the torque needed to move the size loads that are hauled now thats why diesel replaced gas motors in HD trucks many years ago. Although an engineering solution surely could be found it won't be because as stated previously Uncle Sam wouldn't like it. Electric buses are already in production and Tesla has announced plans to build electric semis. that I think is the future of transportation. That could not happen without cooperation from the industry but with the huge expense they are suffering through right now with downtime and repair expense they my be very cooperative.

[Gdog 5651]

And not bringing politics to the board it is my belief also the the EPA standards have been implemented not only to limit diesel but fossil fuel use in general. the problem is then they will PI** and moan when Nuclear has to be used to recharge everything electric. I'm sure when its all wind and solar they will cry then too,for some reason

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by Gdog 5651

And not bringing politics to the board it is my belief also the the EPA standards have been implemented not only to limit diesel but fossil fuel use in general. the problem is then they will PI** and moan when Nuclear has to be used to recharge everything electric. I'm sure when its all wind and solar they will cry then too,for some reason

It's not just the EPA.

Europe has already announced an end to gasoline car production by 2045.

With self-driving cars becoming a real thing there will be other changes. For example, it is unlikely that the children born to those who are babies today will ever learn to drive.

[Robin97396]

Yeeeeeeaaaaahhh! Because they'll have flying cars.

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

Yeeeeeeaaaaahhh! Because they'll have flying cars.

Well that would be nice, but it's inevitable that driving will go away.

The babies now will have kids who could drive maybe 35 to 40 years from now.

The world will be a very different place.

[Rusty]

They are absolutely coming after the older diesels, just a bit more slowly. Look at how diesel fuel has changed over the last 30 years- like leaded to unleaded.

A good friend of mine who is a Superintendent of an oil refinery and worked his way-up from the lab, told me about the trainloads of Sulfur leaving daily. He advised me to add an oz of 2-stroke oil/gallon to compensate for lost lubricity.

Since he works in an Oil refinery and has 3 dozen diesel vehicles he has restored- I listen to him.

I should get some pics of the Mercedes diesel he stuffed in a n SR5 or his 4BT Pontiac Lemans.

http://www.cliffordpower.com/stuff/c...lfur_fuel1.pdf