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Old 02-02-2018, 12:02 PM   #1
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Should i get an 04?

So ive been reading that ideally you want a bus no older than 2004 due to emmisions being a pain. How much worse is it actually? a bunch of 2004 International CE are being retired from a local school district and im curious due to how close they are
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:07 PM   #2
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If they are in good shape and the price is right I wouldn't be opposed to purchasing one. There is a decent amount of support out there for EGR delete on the International engines. I'm not sure about the Cummins engines but I would imagine there is support out there. But like I said, the price needs to be right because you're going to need to perform some maintenance right off the bat.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:09 PM   #3
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I've been told by experts in the field that the issues were on later than 05 buses.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:44 PM   #4
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the cummins 5.9s have a lot of love due to them being used in pickup trucks.. International-wise the V-8s. hsve a lot of love for aftermarket parts because of them being in ford trucks.. though some of the ford parts are different from the navistar variants. I dont think the 7.3 ever had EGR, the EGR on the 6.0 (navistar VT-365) can be deleted or re-fitted like its ford counterpart.

im not sure if there are EGR delete kits for the DT-466's or not.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:53 PM   #5
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I should have specified, they all have t444e. The ones I like most were serviced and inspected within last 4 months.
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Old 02-02-2018, 01:50 PM   #6
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The T444E was discontinued halfway through 2003. Because of the way bus builders work with chassis manufacturers, it is common to buy a bus that is one year newer than its chassis. It is very possible to find a 2004 bus with a pre-EGR motor, because the motor was made along with the chassis in 2003. There are no EGR equipped T444E, they replaced it rather than bring it upto 2004 emissions requirements.


o1marc,whoever is telling you "after 2005" is someone you should consider not listening to any more. The emissions requirements that brought in EGR went into place in model year 2004. EGR failure cases didn't wait 2 years to become a thing. https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/hd.php#y2004

jjhwick, any t444e bus is going to be pre-emissions regardless of the year on the plaque. Also, the advice is no newer than 2003 with the noted exceptions.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:37 PM   #7
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The T444E was discontinued halfway through 2003. Because of the way bus builders work with chassis manufacturers, it is common to buy a bus that is one year newer than its chassis. It is very possible to find a 2004 bus with a pre-EGR motor, because the motor was made along with the chassis in 2003. There are no EGR equipped T444E, they replaced it rather than bring it upto 2004 emissions requirements.


o1marc,whoever is telling you "after 2005" is someone you should consider not listening to any more. The emissions requirements that brought in EGR went into place in model year 2004. EGR failure cases didn't wait 2 years to become a thing. https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/hd.php#y2004

jjhwick, any t444e bus is going to be pre-emissions regardless of the year on the plaque. Also, the advice is no newer than 2003 with the noted exceptions.
Great to know! I'll change my date range to 03 in future, but if I understood that right I don't have to worry about these 04s because they have the t444e. Sweet.

Waiting to hear back about a little more info, and mentioned I'd like to come see them (they have 5 retired 1 week ago..good odds). Pretty sure they are all at545 route buses, which I'm fine with, but hoping there could be a 643 hiding in there
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:49 PM   #8
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also, whats the difference in a state inpection and a commercial inspection?
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:01 PM   #9
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For me it is normal vehicle state inspection at 15-35$ or a DOT inspection at 60$.
I can get a normal inspection buy law but all of those garages are scared to touch it and the garages that will touch it only do full DOT inspections.
My local garage is cool about it. They let me walk/crawl around with them and if they question something they say you need to look at replacing that or fix this and as long as I have what they pointed out done by the next years inspection there cool.
Haven't failed me yet but I don't want to take it to them this year because I know the date code on my tires will fail me.
The tires are starting to show a little but the date code says they have to be replaced.
so I am working on finding the rims to upgrade to what I want before before I buy new sneakers at 1800$.
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:05 PM   #10
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The reason why im asking is some of their buses have a commercial inspection, and some a state inspection. im wondering the differences,such as is one more strict than the other so i know that bus was more thoroughly looked over
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokedown View Post
The T444E was discontinued halfway through 2003. Because of the way bus builders work with chassis manufacturers, it is common to buy a bus that is one year newer than its chassis. It is very possible to find a 2004 bus with a pre-EGR motor, because the motor was made along with the chassis in 2003. There are no EGR equipped T444E, they replaced it rather than bring it upto 2004 emissions requirements.


o1marc,whoever is telling you "after 2005" is someone you should consider not listening to any more. The emissions requirements that brought in EGR went into place in model year 2004. EGR failure cases didn't wait 2 years to become a thing. https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/hd.php#y2004

jjhwick, any t444e bus is going to be pre-emissions regardless of the year on the plaque. Also, the advice is no newer than 2003 with the noted exceptions.
The person that told me that works for one of the largest bus sales outfits that this site recommends dealing with. They have sold 1000's of buses and know their business. They said to not listen to the koalas that claim otherwise. I can take advice from them, or from some random dude on the internet that owns A bus that does not fall into the category of one with a supposed issue.
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:22 PM   #12
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EGR HAS been a problem on diesel since its inception (late 2004) and up and problems are escalating as they get newer some problems early egr massive particulate filer problems later
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokedown View Post
The T444E was discontinued halfway through 2003. Because of the way bus builders work with chassis manufacturers, it is common to buy a bus that is one year newer than its chassis. It is very possible to find a 2004 bus with a pre-EGR motor, because the motor was made along with the chassis in 2003. There are no EGR equipped T444E, they replaced it rather than bring it upto 2004 emissions requirements.


o1marc,whoever is telling you "after 2005" is someone you should consider not listening to any more. The emissions requirements that brought in EGR went into place in model year 2004. EGR failure cases didn't wait 2 years to become a thing. https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/hd.php#y2004

jjhwick, any t444e bus is going to be pre-emissions regardless of the year on the plaque. Also, the advice is no newer than 2003 with the noted exceptions.
You are quite correct. Precisely why I jumped on the 04 shorty with pre-emission, pre-egr DT.
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:26 PM   #14
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The person that told me that works for one of the largest bus sales outfits that this site recommends dealing with. They have sold 1000's of buses and know their business. They said to not listen to the koalas that claim otherwise. I can take advice from them, or from some random dude on the internet that owns A bus that does not fall into the category of one with a supposed issue.
Sounds like you listen to salesmen. Well go ahead and get an 05.


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Old 02-02-2018, 04:26 PM   #15
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Were the EGR issues ever resolved? Was there a fix, or did all these buses have constant issues?
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:27 PM   #16
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Sounds like you listen to salesmen. Well go ahead and get an 05.


How many 05's out there with absolutely no issues?
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:29 PM   #17
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How many 05's out there with absolutely no issues?
Not nearly as many as 04 and before. Why they're so cheap and why the used car lots are full of them. You can get a "screaming deal" on an emissions diesel bus.
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:32 PM   #18
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For me a DOT inspection is what they use for every big rig on the highway.
They check the travel in every brake air piston,every brake line from start to finish,the entire drive line for play or carrier bearing rubbers or bolts loose or wearing,
Jack up the front end and look for any slack in the springs,shocks,all steering components. Open the hood and check mainly the air compressor and belt tension,check the date code on the tires and measure the tread depth,then all the lights that are supposed to work on a vehicle that size,including the clearance/marker lights,the normal stuff that should work on any vehicle like turn signal,headlight,brake lite,running lite,reverse or bacK up light power steering hose leaks.
There used to be a video on here that someone posted of a full inspection from a DOT enforcement officer training a companies office people about what they look for?
I ain't saavy enough to find it or post it again.
But you can probably Google TEJAS DOT inspection requirements or just go to a local truck shop that handles big trucks and ask for a copy of there inspection sheet so you have an idea of what they are looking for and you can go through the process with what can comfotably do at home.
Mine let me go through it with them and tell me when something is good right now but needs to be addressed.
Hopefully yours will allow you to do the same.
I always have extra bulbs and am working on a full tool storage bin but there are some things that you can't fix on the side of the road so it's better to check and know before you go.
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:46 PM   #19
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Were the EGR issues ever resolved? Was there a fix, or did all these buses have constant issues?
Any vehicle with an EGR or COMPUTER is going to have problems.
My old 77 truck was the first year for that engine to have problems and never got it to run like I wanted until I ripped that mess off it.
My wife's 2014 car is having emissions problems at least in the F'ing computer anyway.
My 2010 duramax goes to low power and refuses to run more than 15-20 on the interstate until I get out and unplug the MASS AIR sensor. With that jumped out it runs like a champ no smoke out of the exhaust at all until I hammer down running 65 in a 70 zone hauling a load.
Usually the one leading the pacK but with a loaded trailer you get caught up some time.
That duramax is hitting 400,000 and I have jumpered a lot of sensors on it instead of deleting them but I can hook them up in the garage paring lot and pass inspection every year.
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:46 PM   #20
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in answer to the are they still having emission problems the answer is a resounding yes the newer they get the more problematic they are becoming as to inspections in MO the bus fleets are inspected the the State Troopers as to the CVS's (DOT) the inspection is as good as the inspector and not one bit better same with a state safety inspection.I am still a certified DOT inspector and can assure you that I have followed other inspectors that were either blind or lazy, missing items such as leaking wheel seals out of spec brake linings cracks in frames ect..
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