So you want to buy a bus. Get edjumacated FIRST!!!!

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Bikeboyz

Thank you so very much for the info. if you hear of a rust free, 40ft, rear engine with those engines please let me know. I am willing to pay premium.

People post buses they spot for sale on this thread: https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f14/n...ead-11256.html

After you follow that link, click on "Thread Tools" and then "Subscribe to this thread".

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Navistar's DT466 and Cummins engines (from 5.9L to 8.3L) are in high regard pretty much universally. CAT engines are more controversial, perhaps due to the lesser availability of mechanics to work on them, but a number of respectable users stand by them. Mercedes-Benz engines are spit upon by all.

This assumes the engines are from 2003 or earlier. From 2004 onwards, they all have issues thanks to emissions control devices (which do, in fact, reduce smog-causing particulate and NOx emissions, but cause reliability problems and are very expensive to repair).

I'm having 100% better time owning a Cat vs any other bus engine I've dealt with.
ANY mechanic who deals with medium duty diesels can fix a Cat in a school bus.
Now finding a mechanic who knows what he's doing to replace a DT timing cover- that's a difficult ask.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I'm having 100% better time owning a Cat vs any other bus engine I've dealt with.

I said you were respectable.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I said you were respectable.

Saw that! lol

[dan-fox]

Originally Posted by Bikeboyz

Thank you so very much for the info. if you hear of a rust free, 40ft, rear engine with those engines please let me know. I am willing to pay premium.

Unfortunately, so is everyone else. Start doing your own research; it's all part of the learning process. Govdeals and Public Surplus are the 800 lb gorilllas in the skoolie auction world; check them every few days. Also, this:
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/w...olie-5038.html

[Mozz20]

Hey there, I’m looking for a short bus and found a listing for a 1988 Ford Econoline with a 5.8L and C6 trans. I have zero experience with this motor/trans combo. Is it worth looking into?

Seller states that it runs well, and has “71k” miles on it. I highly doubt that as the odometer only counts up to 99,999

Thanks for any edjumacation that can be provided!

[desparado]

Is 9000 dollars to much for a 2007 blue bird 30 ft front begin 7.6 Cummins with 150.000 miles
No rust good tires always serviced by Cummins

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by desparado

Is 9000 dollars to much for a 2007 blue bird 30 ft front begin 7.6 Cummins with 150.000 miles
No rust good tires always serviced by Cummins

I think so.

[kokopelli dream'n]

I live out west but never heard of a retarded. Please explain. There is noway to drive around Arizona or leave the state without confronting a mountain.

[BeNimble]

A retarded bus is one bought for $14,000 to have a $6,000 raised roof, and $10,000 transmission swap, and $2,000 in dumpster dived interior, with $1000 poop bucket.

A bus retarder is an extra braking system that does not use friction like normal brakes,
one I know of (Telma) uses electric magnets as I tried to buy one to use a power absorber for an engine dyno, although I understand there are different ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsJ5Z7zwZ1M

[Vineyardseashell]

As part of my bus purchase education, much of it included following bus, van, tiny house and other alternative housing builds. I follow a young man from upstate NY who has converted at least two of his own buses and helped build out several others. His latest YT video goes over what he looks at in buses he finds for sale ln FB marketplace, etc. Although, I drive a school bus and purchased one from my local district, I did learn a coup!e of bus tidbits from his video....and remember, many school districts only advertise buses for sale in their local media.



Here is the YT link.



https://youtu.be/gMRIcyEohZA



Hope it helps��


Clyn

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by BeNimble

A retarded bus is one bought for $14,000 to have a $6,000 raised roof, and $10,000 transmission swap, and $2,000 in dumpster dived interior, with $1000 poop bucket.

OH... NO... THEY... DIDN'T... But they're not lying...

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by Mozz20

Hey there, I’m looking for a short bus and found a listing for a 1988 Ford Econoline with a 5.8L and C6 trans. I have zero experience with this motor/trans combo. Is it worth looking into?

Seller states that it runs well, and has “71k” miles on it. I highly doubt that as the odometer only counts up to 99,999

Thanks for any edjumacation that can be provided!

5.8L is the 351 Windsor. Good engine, C6 trans is good as well. True mileage that low is unlikely, but not impossible. Private school, activity bus, it's possible. The bus' visual condition should verify this, however.

[Medinadoesthings]

So ive been looking into this bus and plan to see it and test drive it on the 7th.

Engine DT444, V6, Alisson 2,500 or 3,000 transmission
International

37 ft bumper to bumper
light surface rust - west Idaho/Eastern Washington

New tires - 90% tred, replaced within last year

Transmission fluid replaced 5,000 miles previously

Oil replaced a month ago

Retired from school district use in the last 2 months.

Passed Idaho inspection last year

8-9 mpg ----- 320hp

I'm waiting on the vin
Looking at test driving on the 7th, and need to drive it from WA to HTX

$5,000


Is it worth it?

[potterfield]

you got my vote for interested. fire it up, let 'er idle for 10/15 minutes while you do more of a walk around under the hood. things dripping? does the ground have 'wet spots'? oil pan look relatively clean and not like a leaky faucet (same for trans pan)..
how much smoke do you see outta' the exhaust when you rev it up?
shift smooth? doesn't die at stop lights? no hesitation on the throttle once applied?

if all checks out, heck yea make 'em an offer they can't refuse!
cheers,
b

[Medinadoesthings]

Do you think i would need to hire a mechanic to come with me to inspect it? I plan to get the service records and check those things and have my brother in law whos a mechanic but not a diesel mechanic, help me along the way.

I'm just concerned with it costing another $1,000 just to drive it done so start cost before anything will be $6,000 or should I look in the south

When you refer to a lot of smoke from the exhaust - its cold over there now so how can I tell if its normal or a lot?

I'm gonna try to get it down to $4,500 (started at $5,500 so already down 500) and that would offset mostly gas on the trip. I know he got it from the school district for $3,500

[Thud]

Hello all...
New to the group, but been creepily monitoring threads for some time. And I also appear to be following a trend: engaging in proper research only to arrive at an impasse in terms of pros vs. cons; especially regarding powertrains (of course). Fairly mechanically inclined, but primarily cars and motorcycles; not well versed on buses, or diesels in general for that matter.

Not looking to consume much of anyone’s time (beyond this dissertation), but was wondering if any of you knowledgeable folks could toss me a bone in regards to thoughts on the following 3 examples. Searching for reliable, carefree, 65mph highway cruising (aren’t we all?), and I’m aware that the 7.2 & 5.9L are considered undesirable for towing or even crawling up a minor grade without nodding off. Also aware that I’ve listed two separate configurations.

Wouldn’t be loaded with excess cabin weight, but I may choose to tow a 3,500lb vehicle in an enclosed trailer at some point (I believe RE’s work better for towing based upon weight distribution, handling, etc). Won’t be, “boondocking” so I wouldn’t necessarily need ground clearance or spring suspension. I reside in a hot climate so a/c is a plus, I’m 6’2”, and proximity/price are factors as well of course. Aesthetics also play a strong role; I appreciate the large, flush glass that transits often come equipped with; especially if they pivot outward (the escape hatch), but also the simplicity, strength/crash-worthiness of a school bus.

Current candidates:

2006 Thomas Saf-T-Liner HDX with a CAT C7 7.2L, Allison 5 Speed, 30’ shorty RE, 202k miles, minimal head room, with a/c, from a dry climate (no visible rust), pre-DPF, fleet serviced/dealer sold, listed locally, great shape, $7.5k.

2007 El Dorado National transit with a Cummins 5.9L, Allison MTECH 111 (?), 30’ shorty RE, 264k miles, plenty of head room, with a/c, from a dry climate (not sure on rust), pre-DPF, privately serviced/sold, listed 5hrs away, a little rough, $5k.

2008 Gillig LF transit with a Cummins ISL 8.9L, Voith tranny, 30’ shorty RE, 366k miles, plenty of head room, no a/c, from a wet climate (no road salt/visible rust), post-DPF, fleet serviced/dealer sold, listed 17hrs away, great shape, $10k (including a full-body wrap that would need to be removed).

Also quite fond of the Thomas STL C2 with the MB motor, even though it’s an FE. But can’t seem to find a shorty for a decent price that isn’t suffering from corrosion. Seems they’re preferred in Midwest/Northeastern school districts.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by Thud

Hello all...
New to the group, but been creepily monitoring threads for some time. And I also appear to be following a trend: engaging in proper research only to arrive at an impasse in terms of pros vs. cons; especially regarding powertrains (of course). Fairly mechanically inclined, but primarily cars and motorcycles; not well versed on buses, or diesels in general for that matter.

Not looking to consume much of anyone’s time (beyond this dissertation), but was wondering if any of you knowledgeable folks could toss me a bone in regards to thoughts on the following 3 examples. Searching for reliable, carefree, 65mph highway cruising (aren’t we all?), and I’m aware that the 7.2 & 5.9L are considered undesirable for towing or even crawling up a minor grade without nodding off. Also aware that I’ve listed two separate configurations.

Wouldn’t be loaded with excess cabin weight, but I may choose to tow a 3,500lb vehicle in an enclosed trailer at some point (I believe RE’s work better for towing based upon weight distribution, handling, etc). Won’t be, “boondocking” so I wouldn’t necessarily need ground clearance or spring suspension. I reside in a hot climate so a/c is a plus, I’m 6’2”, and proximity/price are factors as well of course. Aesthetics also play a strong role; I appreciate the large, flush glass that transits often come equipped with; especially if they pivot outward (the escape hatch), but also the simplicity, strength/crash-worthiness of a school bus.

Current candidates:

2006 Thomas Saf-T-Liner HDX with a CAT C7 7.2L, Allison 5 Speed, 30’ shorty RE, 202k miles, minimal head room, with a/c, from a dry climate (no visible rust), pre-DPF, fleet serviced/dealer sold, listed locally, great shape, $7.5k.

2007 El Dorado National transit with a Cummins 5.9L, Allison MTECH 111 (?), 30’ shorty RE, 264k miles, plenty of head room, with a/c, from a dry climate (not sure on rust), pre-DPF, privately serviced/sold, listed 5hrs away, a little rough, $5k.

2008 Gillig LF transit with a Cummins ISL 8.9L, Voith tranny, 30’ shorty RE, 366k miles, plenty of head room, no a/c, from a wet climate (no road salt/visible rust), post-DPF, fleet serviced/dealer sold, listed 17hrs away, great shape, $10k (including a full-body wrap that would need to be removed).

Also quite fond of the Thomas STL C2 with the MB motor, even though it’s an FE. But can’t seem to find a shorty for a decent price that isn’t suffering from corrosion. Seems they’re preferred in Midwest/Northeastern school districts.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Well, kudos to you, you're doing research before purchasing, which will hopefully net you a better skoolie experience. I'll say a few statements, in no particular order, regarding your post.

1. the only option you've given that's a school bus is the thomas, the other 2 were likely city route buses, so they won't be as "stoutly" built as a school bus, but they're better then most sticks and staples RV.

2. Speed capability is a result of several things like weight, engine HP, Gearing, and grade you're going up.

I've got around 175 hp, and can do 70-75. But I have no grade where I'm at, I'm relatively light weight(full sized bus, but minimal conversion), and I've got gearing that allows me to do so.

Gearing is the big thing. It's something that most overlook and are unaware of, and it has a direct factor in a pleasant bus vs something that's a nightmare on the interstate.

3. RE buses aren't necessarily the best for towing because of their configuration. They're great highway cruisers because they locate the engine's heat and noise away from the driver, but they can be more prone to overheating because they lack the ram air effect through the radiator that is present in FE and conventional buses.

BUT, Because they locate the engine heat and noise away from the driver, RE buses are more likely to be highway cruisers, so they'll be more commonly equipped with the better engine and gearing combos for highway cruising.

4. I'm not a big cat c7 fan. The ones we had were problem childs compared to the cat 3126's they replaced. And all of the cat's seemed less reliable then the cummins engines we used. So unless you have a lifetime of detailed maintenance records showing religious maintenance was followed for the C7, I'd avoid it.

5. The ISL is a great engine, but I'd avoid it if it has a DPF present. The first 5 or so years of "emissions"(2008-2013 or so) buses were horribly unreliable compared to the current ones, and the ones before them. I'd also avoid the voith transmission because they're not that common in the MD/HD world, and seem to be replaced more then they are repaired.

6. I'd be surprised if a 2007 bus has a 5.9 cummins in it. Most likely it's a 6.7, and the fact they list the trans as Mtech 111 doesn't bode well either. It's likely wtechIII, which alludes to allison's ecm version, but a 2007 would like be wtechIV, not wtechIII, so there really is no telling what you're looking at, except that the seller doesn't likely have any idea as to what they have. Couple that with it appearing to be in rough shape also would make me walk away.

So, that's my thoughts. Take it for what it's worth. I'd keep looking vs purchasing what you have listed.

[Thud]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

Well, kudos to you, you're doing research before purchasing, which will hopefully net you a better skoolie experience. I'll say a few statements, in no particular order, regarding your post.

1. the only option you've given that's a school bus is the thomas, the other 2 were likely city route buses, so they won't be as "stoutly" built as a school bus, but they're better then most sticks and staples RV.

2. Speed capability is a result of several things like weight, engine HP, Gearing, and grade you're going up.

I've got around 175 hp, and can do 70-75. But I have no grade where I'm at, I'm relatively light weight(full sized bus, but minimal conversion), and I've got gearing that allows me to do so.

Gearing is the big thing. It's something that most overlook and are unaware of, and it has a direct factor in a pleasant bus vs something that's a nightmare on the interstate.

3. RE buses aren't necessarily the best for towing because of their configuration. They're great highway cruisers because they locate the engine's heat and noise away from the driver, but they can be more prone to overheating because they lack the ram air effect through the radiator that is present in FE and conventional buses.

BUT, Because they locate the engine heat and noise away from the driver, RE buses are more likely to be highway cruisers, so they'll be more commonly equipped with the better engine and gearing combos for highway cruising.

4. I'm not a big cat c7 fan. The ones we had were problem childs compared to the cat 3126's they replaced. And all of the cat's seemed less reliable then the cummins engines we used. So unless you have a lifetime of detailed maintenance records showing religious maintenance was followed for the C7, I'd avoid it.

5. The ISL is a great engine, but I'd avoid it if it has a DPF present. The first 5 or so years of "emissions"(2008-2013 or so) buses were horribly unreliable compared to the current ones, and the ones before them. I'd also avoid the voith transmission because they're not that common in the MD/HD world, and seem to be replaced more then they are repaired.

6. I'd be surprised if a 2007 bus has a 5.9 cummins in it. Most likely it's a 6.7, and the fact they list the trans as Mtech 111 doesn't bode well either. It's likely wtechIII, which alludes to allison's ecm version, but a 2007 would like be wtechIV, not wtechIII, so there really is no telling what you're looking at, except that the seller doesn't likely have any idea as to what they have. Couple that with it appearing to be in rough shape also would make me walk away.

So, that's my thoughts. Take it for what it's worth. I'd keep looking vs purchasing what you have listed.

First, I really appreciate you taking the time to address my query; especially in such a comprehensive manner. I see noobs like me inundating this page with questions that could easily be answered with a few google clicks; has to be frustrating. Nevertheless, the accumulative knowledge that's gathered here is immeasuarable for Skoolie wannabees such as myself.

The tips on RE highway gearing, pros and cons of different powerplants and the emissions situation are very helpul, and can only be acquired from experience, for which I have little, unfortunately. In addition, the potential RE highway gearing tip may be what finally helps me decide between the FE and RE. Just need solid reasons as to why some models may have an advantage; driveability is very important for my sanity. And yes, I was a bit confused by the tranny info on the National; couldn't find any specs on what he had listed. In summary, I agree with your walk away assessment, but it's actually moot, the National and Gillig both already sold; and no tears will be shed.

Regarding airflow, I'm somewhat of a gearhead. Currently "building" a sports car: high-flow intakes, high-flow exhaust, ECU re-mapping, etc. So I'm keen to the different flow characteristics/heat issues that may occur between the FE and RE. I've tended to sway towards the direct-induction of the FE in part because of it. Plus I prefer emergency and ADA doors (if applicable) being located in the rear. Mid-cabin doors break up the floorplan forcing one to work around them. But then of course there's the noise, driver-area heat and mechanical-difficulty factors on a FE; personal preference at that point I suppose. Speaking of airflow, out of curiosity, has anyone tried adding side scoops to an RE ? Although that may hinder the temp at idle.

In terms of towing, I lack experience with bus-length vehicles, was simply attempting to apply basic physics. Having more weight closer in proximity to the pivot point may afford greater control in the case of hard braking and/or manuevering. A heavy trailer that's gone squirrely might force the ass of a long FE to jack knife. Plus a trailer-laden RE may offer more grunt in terms of initial first gear inertia. But again, I don't possess first hand knowledge; just random thoughts. =)

Also, not looking to build a "fast" transport vehicle, I simply despise anything that's gutless. And I'd prefer reliability considering I'm not adept at wrenching on diesels. It's been stated many times, "if you're waiting for the perfect bus, you may never find it", and "get the powertrain you want." It's just the frustration of not being able to find enough chosen criteria in one particular vehicle; nothing but trade-offs and compromise. Eh, probably just need to relax, stop whining and be more patient.

And I know that with diesels, torque is king; which is where gearing comes in. It explains why semis have like 142 gears. It's flat in my neck of the woods, but I'd be hitting some long, steep grades at some point. Would rather avoid swapping powertrains though, that's gotta be a costly nightmare on a bus; finding the correct combo is ideal. So the gearing set up would just have to be part of the overall package. Don't think any type of non-coach bus is necessarily designed for highway use; school bus, transit, or otherwise.

I knew in the OP I was comparing transits to a school bus, but each have something I want, and don't want; therein lies the motivation behind this scrambled mess of words. Also relegated to what's available in terms of distance, price, general condition and wet or dry original climate. Locally, standard transits are scarce, everyone drives here. And just like anywhere else, school bus availability is largely based upon what the district invests in. Around here they usually lean towards Type C FE's and Type D Thomas HDX STL RE's with the unpopular C7 and whatever tranny/gearing they're accompanied with; they're a dime a dozen. Usually prefer purchasing cars/motocycles from private owners, but in the case of a commercially-based transport vehicle, I'd rather go with a dealer that picks them up directly from a government-regulated (in theory), fleet-serviced supply... So choices are limited.

School buses offer strength, simplicity, abundance, lighter weight, lower miles and usually a lower price. Transits are heavier, cost more, log higher miles, host a more complex, often unnecessary electrical system, but offer at least one specific need: headroom. Unless I find a nice example from California, my head almost drags along the roofline of a school bus. Add insulation and perhaps some nice wood planks (above and below) and I'm forever a hunchback. And with our set up, we'll need headroom front to back, side to side, not simply down the center path. Also a fan of large, and fewer windows that potentially cantilever out. As opposed to 90 little ones that come up to my knees and simply slide up or down. Hence my transit to school bus comparison. 'shrug'

Been so frustrated that I've actually started looking at partial "sticks and staples" =) Type A shuttles. Huge, amount of headroom across the entire roofline, even with a/c (I live in the desert) plus huge, windows. Found one near-by for pretty cheap. Pre-DPF, El Dorado-bodied, C5500 Chevy with I believe an 8.1, non-Duramax motor (not sure on tranny). But it unfortunately runs on not-round-the-clock-available propane, which means it's also underpowered; but it should weigh less. Although I do like the idea of burning cleaner fuel without the constraints of an exhaust-choking DPF. Essentially an airport hopper or party bus, suited even less for the highway. But the seller did mention that it cruised nicely from LA to Vegas, and the Cajon Pass along that route is an engine-blowing beast. Can't really see dumping piles of money into that model, but I won't be living in it; at least not yet. We'd just be utilizing it for weekend jaunts; lakes, national parks, beaches, karaoke jams, etc. But would also like to haul a motorcycle in it. Formulating a feasible way of using a wheelchair lift to load a 400lb motorcycle up into a bus with room to secure it. Another reason why a low-floor transit or lower-to-the-ground shuttle with smaller tires would be a benefit, school bus floors are usually a cumbersome 4 steps high.

Anyway, I'm rambling... Just trying to flatten the learning curve a bit.

Thanks again for your input.

And if you made it this far, thanks for making it this far.

[rossvtaylor]

Hey Thud...great info above...or below? But I will add a couple of quick thoughts, not to change anything the others said...just more to think about.

I happen to like some of the transits as platforms for builds...and I love Gilligs...but the low floor you mentioned can make for a tough build. It's got different levels and it's hard to find tank or storage space underneath.

I also love RE buses...but for towing one of the challenges I didn't see mentioned...or missed mention of...is that with some buses it's hard to physically affix a good tow receiver, because the engine is in the way and the framing may not be conducive to that.