State won't register bus

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Could register in Vermont. There's a thread about that.

[DawgBüs]

Well that is one hell of a drive without tags. Bud or standard car. Maybe drive as if you belong to whatever school district you may be in? Stop at train tracks, randomly stop to "drop kids off," or "pick kids up" (maybe avoid that option as most kids will be looking at their phones and only observe that bus is correct color before stepping onboard) etc.... haha.

[Sehnsucht]

With no temporary plate just have your bill of sale with you and if it is questioned you can explain the seller's state wouldn't issue a temp. But no don't pretend to pick up and drop off students!

[cadillackid]

MOST definitely dont activate the school lights at all.. thats a definite way to get arrested.. the idea is to go unnoticed not draw attention..



there was a case in indiana a couple years ago of a bunch of parents getting freaked out just because someone was driving an old yellow school bus around during the day.. a bus enthusiast like any of us.. they werent picking up kids and werent activating their lights but they still freaked a bunch of parents out just for riding around near a school (near their home)...

[family wagon]

That's kind of funny.

Several years ago, when my bus was still dressed in its mostly-white paint scheme I got kind of a dirty look from a pedestrian on the side of the road. Best I can figure is the person somehow mistook my bus for one belonging to the local transit authority and was upset I hadn't stopped to pick them up. They were standing right by a bus stop sign, after all!

Driver licensing is a funny thing. Some states - Utah, and I think it was Wisconsin that I also read the statute for - allow a traditionally "commercial" vehicle to be driven by a private/class D licensed individual only if the vehicle is being driven for personal, private, non-commercial use (driving a church bus, for example, does not count as personal). If a person holds a class D driver license issued by such a state then they can legally drive even a full semi, double or triple trailers, or whatever -- so long as it is personal/private use.

This doesn't mean the person is immune to being hassled. I definitely recommend getting class B or A licensed to avoid the potential for delays or other headaches that may occur. If you're pulled over, show a class D license, and the law enforcement officer won't take your word for it that under your licensing-state's rules you're legal, then you could be in for a heap of headache and incidental expenses waiting for the legal system to figure out that you were right. You'd avoid getting a ticket -- but you won't be reimbursed for your trouble.

Besides, the education that goes along with passing a CDL licensing exam is valuable too.

[Sehnsucht]

Originally Posted by family wagon

That's kind of funny.

Several years ago, when my bus was still dressed in its mostly-white paint scheme I got kind of a dirty look from a pedestrian on the side of the road. Best I can figure is the person somehow mistook my bus for one belonging to the local transit authority and was upset I hadn't stopped to pick them up. They were standing right by a bus stop sign, after all!

Driver licensing is a funny thing. Some states - Utah, and I think it was Wisconsin that I also read the statute for - allow a traditionally "commercial" vehicle to be driven by a private/class D licensed individual only if the vehicle is being driven for personal, private, non-commercial use (driving a church bus, for example, does not count as personal). If a person holds a class D driver license issued by such a state then they can legally drive even a full semi, double or triple trailers, or whatever -- so long as it is personal/private use.

This doesn't mean the person is immune to being hassled. I definitely recommend getting class B or A licensed to avoid the potential for delays or other headaches that may occur. If you're pulled over, show a class D license, and the law enforcement officer won't take your word for it that under your licensing-state's rules you're legal, then you could be in for a heap of headache and incidental expenses waiting for the legal system to figure out that you were right. You'd avoid getting a ticket -- but you won't be reimbursed for your trouble.

Besides, the education that goes along with passing a CDL licensing exam is valuable too.

What you're describing sounds like in-state exemption but as soon as you would cross a state line then federal regulations have preeminence under the interstate highway authority. Same thing happens for commercial drivers in specific situations where you can get away with a more lenient requirement in-state but once you leave that state then standard DOT rules apply unless the DOT has also granted a temporary exemption to the published regs. Earlier this year was a prime example of this. In many hurricane-prone states the governor will issue hours of service waiver in order to assist in recovery efforts but it's limited in time and scope AND only in that governor's state. As COVID shut down the nation, the federal level DOT took the unprecedented step of waiving hours of service requirements for anyone hauling essential goods because they needed to get shelves restocked. Whether it's state or federal though, these kinds of exemptions are specific and usually temporary so I wouldn't put a lot of confidence in some gray area licensing exemption that may only apply in one or few states.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

Not entirely correct. You can drive a road tractor without a trailer with a Class B license ... and in fact even pull a trailer as long as it's under the 10K threshold. And of course the air brake endorsement.

Still not totally correct.

Depends upon your state of residence/registration.

I live in Tennessee.

I can drive road semi tractor everyday to work and back, to the grocery store and school if desired with a regular driver's license and a standard license plate. No CDL, No endorsements or No anything special as far as a driver's license is concerned. That truck can be my daily driver as long as it's titled/registered to me personally, does not have any commercial names or reference on the side and DOES NOT pull a trailer. Pulling a semi trailer puts the vehicle then into a commercial class rating and does require the CDL and other stuff also required in most commercial applications. Insurance might be a big issue and expensive in making a semi tractor your daily driver however driver's license part is easy in the State of Tennessee.

As I had a semi tractor at one time this was confirmed by me with the THP (Tennessee Highway Patrol) at THP with the THP officer in charge of all vehicle classification information and requirements for the State of Tennessee.

Strange but true!

[CHEESE_WAGON]

"There's that pesky 26,000+ GVWR again...We'll just ignore it."

[demoman]

In california you can drive any single vehicle no matter what with a class b license. Otherwise you would need a class a license for an f350 just because it has a fifth wheel which allows you to pull over 20k lbs. Road tractor towing less than 10k gvw trailer only need class b lic. Also you dont need a cdl for anything unless you are commercial. If you are private rv you need a class a or b noncommercial. I dont know the exact rules but i think it has to do with medical card and hours of service.
As far as getting a permit to operate california definitely has permits available for anything. You need to be sure to ask for a one trip moving permit. They are issued over the counter for a fee and can be used on any vehicle at any time. You dont get them issued for a specific vehicle and only fill them out with the vin and date when you use them. They are good for any one way or round trip and cost around 20 to 45. Just Google ca dmv one trip permit. I keep one with me all the time so if i buy a truck without reg. I can drive home. I call my insurance co And have the insurance bound with a payment over the phone.
Do NOT ask for a temporary operating permit. That is something completely different which you need to apply for and pay for registration fees before it is issued.
Cheese wagon is right about the need for a class b air brake license in this particular situation. It is still a bus until the state says it is not. Even if it is painted and the seats taken out. If you take out the seats you would not need passenger endorsement but would still need class b. That being said as others have mentioned no one here has ever come up with a story of where they were stopped and not allowed to proceed because they didn't have the proper license. I wouldnt see a problem with taking the risk close to home but when you are going thousands of miles the risk is too great. The cost of having to have the bus towed all the way home, abandoned, or impounded until a class b driver shows up is high.

[Maligator.]

Having just driven a bus 3000 miles to include 2000 in Canada Imma chime in. We registered the bus in Vermont and had ZERO issues with Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, Yukon Territory and the US border crossing into Alaska. We spent an hour at the Canada border but they did not question our legality at all, merely told us we couldn't camp in it and forced us to book a string of Roach motels and give them a detailed travel map that we were instructed to adhere to strictly. I had multiple LEOs next to me, in front of me, behind me even had conversations with US Border officials regarding why I registered in Vermont vs Alaska.

If you want to be hassle free and as close to "legal" as possible, I would recommend the Title/Registration thread regard Vermont. It just worked for us in multiple States and multiple countries. I must have driven by 30 Troopers in WA and OR and maybe closer to 50 RCMP. After a 5 minute chat at the US border we continued home with the border agents grinning at us and giving us positive feedback.

Our bus is still yellow, has 4 intact seats behind the driver, "school bus" blacked out or removed, stop sign and fender gate removed and Red W/Ls blacked out with spray paint. I do not currently have a CDL, though I will be taking the class in 3 months for my own education and so that I have the endorsement.

The other safe option if you cannot wait for Vermont registration and RV title is to hire a CDL driver.

[banman]

Originally Posted by Cruzer

I want to thank everyone. I have my CDL class B with Passenger & Air brake endorsements. California won't register or even give a temp because bus is to old for DOT emissions and Florida says no to temp Tag. I have Insurance lined up so I guess I'm stuck driving it home without plates.

I think you got this...
LEO has bigger issues to worry about right now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zehXYOzMpOM

[demoman]

[QUOTE=Maligator.;414883]Having just driven a bus 3000 miles to include 2000 in Canada Imma chime in. We registered the bus in Vermont and had ZERO issues with Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, Yukon Territory and the US border crossing into Alaska. We spent an hour at the Canada border but they did not question our legality at all, merely told us we couldn't camp in it and forced us to book a string of Roach motels and give them a detailed travel map that we were instructed to adhere to strictly.

Was the reason you had to stay in motels and not camp because of the coronavirus or because it wasnt completely converted?

[shorthair]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

Not entirely correct. You can drive a road tractor without a trailer with a Class B license ... and in fact even pull a trailer as long as it's under the 10K threshold. And of course the air brake endorsement.

Correct plus with a class A license you can drag an unlicensed trailer even with a load to the purchaser but NO further.
Daimler routinely sends tractors from Portland Oregon to Detroit Michigan with class B drivers, who are not employed by Daimler.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

*shrugs* Do what you like, don't say I didn't warn you if you get in a bad situation and can't get out of it. I'm just trying to help people avoid trouble here. I only have 400,000 miles of OTR experience and a 25-year veteran trainer backing me up, as well as other members here. But do what you like -- Arguing with me doesn't get you a $1000+ ticket and jail time. Arguing with the wrong DOT officer does. I keep trying to tell you guys that it does not matter what it's being used for, what they look at is how it is titled, seating capacity and GVWR. There's no getting around that without retitling as a motorhome or RV.

Even if it does slide under and the judge gives you a pass, you're not getting out of it on the side of the road, which means an expensive tow and impound, and the hassle of going to court and hoping the judge throws it out (unlikely). And, if your bus is deemed to require a CDL, guess what you or anyone else is going to have to have to get it back out of impound?

Not to mention these things are dangerous enough in trained and qualified hands. Do you really like the idea of someone operating a tractor-trailer without a CDL? Do you think a 17-year old should be able to get behind the wheel of a 45-foot Prevost just because it's registered as a private coach? Because that's what you're condoning here. End of story -- GVWR and rated passenger capacity. That's what makes a bus a commercial vehicle, and that's what makes it require a CDL.

The only exemptions are farm use (within limited mileage of an actual farm that you can prove you own), registered as private vehicle with title showing something other than BUS -- which requires the seats be removed and the vehicle be inspected for certification as no longer being a bus.

[ndnlou]

We bought ours here in AZ pulled all the seats out got a black tag in Oklahoma (we are active duty military) so we do not have to insure while we do the build. MLK

[Maligator.]

[QUOTE=demoman;414885]

Originally Posted by Maligator.

Having just driven a bus 3000 miles to include 2000 in Canada Imma chime in. We registered the bus in Vermont and had ZERO issues with Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, Yukon Territory and the US border crossing into Alaska. We spent an hour at the Canada border but they did not question our legality at all, merely told us we couldn't camp in it and forced us to book a string of Roach motels and give them a detailed travel map that we were instructed to adhere to strictly.

Was the reason you had to stay in motels and not camp because of the coronavirus or because it wasnt completely converted?

At the Abbotsford crossing they have "Quarantine Officers" that required us to stay in a hotel, they didn't tell us why but I suspect it was so they could keep tabs on us. I think they thought we were going to Mooch off their health care system or defect to Canada or something. I'm pretty sure they called the hotels to verify we stayed, they warned us multiple times to not deviate from our "planned route and accomodations". We also had to "check out" of Canada before we crossed into the US. We had a certificate and tag we had to file with border patrol.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Canada, by contrast, has to honor a US license, but cannot enforce US law. So what Canada does is irrelevant. A US DOT officer can give you a real headache over this.

[shorthair]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Canada, by contrast, has to honor a US license, but cannot enforce US law. So what Canada does is irrelevant. A US DOT officer can give you a real headache over this.

Good friend special ordered a custom Frieghtliner and picked it up in Denver less than 3000 miles later Ca wrote him out of service for the factory using plastic airline to the brake cans. So if they try they can park even a brand new rig.

[DeMac]

Ours spent its active years carting local kiddos around our town. Since the county failed to alter the appearance, we just brought it home like a county employee. Our house is only 16 miles from the auction.

[Sehnsucht]

Originally Posted by shorthair

Good friend special ordered a custom Frieghtliner and picked it up in Denver less than 3000 miles later Ca wrote him out of service for the factory using plastic airline to the brake cans. So if they try they can park even a brand new rig.

Not being snarky but that's probably his own fault for not specifying a Canada-spec'd unit. Canada does have different standards and vehicles destined for Canada are built to meet those. Same goes for many models of car that are built in Canada for US market. However, because the differences are seemingly small, many people assume US and Canada vehicles are interchangeable but they're not. The two countries allow each other's vehicles and licenses to visit but if you try to register a vehicle you're saying it meets their standard when it may not. A friend of mine had a very similar issue, purchased a horse hauler tow rig in US and then spent a small fortune satisfying Canadian regulations even though it wasn't even meant as a commercial vehicle. I think the reason for people attempting this is to save money, there's a lot more negotiating leverage in the US and 'sneaking it in' tries to avoid import fees.