Stationary Skoolie on friend's property - what do I need to know?

[DeMac]

Ham.
Please show us some photos of your experience, strength & knowledge in this subject. Please offer us a reference or a source outside of your head. Maybe a Florida Statute or scientific data.


(Mom & kids project. Power & Water. One final inspection, only.)

SO amperage capacity is measured at 86°F. Using the table to adjust the ampacities is to follow the laws of physics, electrical faults are enforced by laws of nature, on the authority some call "Mother".

No legal debate, when we ignore truth & fact, ignorance has already happened.

...I end my rant.

[Wildfloweramanda]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

Always remember, where there's a rule, there's a guy like me looking at it with a microscope. Some are called lawyers.

This is all helpful, I appreciate you so much!! I know a lot of people do this for fun, or because it's trendy, or they want a home on wheels so they can travel .... But living in Florida, I'm a single woman with 2 kids that have lived with their dad since our divorce because I could never afford a home that would be a better alternative to what their dad could provide. Their dad is great, don't get me wrong, but I've basically always just been able to pay rent and nothing else ... With prices on everything jumping, now I can't even do that. Creating this bus as my home is my opportunity for my OWN home and freedom from debt. It will be my chance to create something that I can be proud to share with my children. ANYTHING that can help me make this dream a reality is deeply appreciated... I'm determined to make this work. I have no financial alternative except moving out of state away from my kids and honestly that's not an option. They need their mom, and I need them ❤️

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by DeMac

Ham.
Please show us some photos of your experience, strength & knowledge in this subject. Please offer us a reference or a source outside of your head. Maybe a Florida Statute or scientific data.

SO amperage capacity is measured at 86°F. Using the table to adjust the ampacities is to follow the laws of physics, enforceable by laws of nature, on the authority some call "Mother".

No legal debate, when we ignore truth & fact, ignorance has already happened.

I wasn't saying that the local jurisdiction didn't adopt or that it didn't lawfully adopt. I was merely pointing out that there are myriad ways to attack the problem.

No argument about the physics. I love physics. It's what allows me to defy gravity in a 2300 pound vehicle and ignore roads on my way to some place to get a $100 hamburger...... which is now probably a $200 or $300 hamburger considering the massive inflation and fuel cost increases.
I'm just saying that there may be a number of ways to skin the cat...... and voicing my considerable disdain for the NFPA and other organizations that attempt to impose the will of the mob on those who don't particularly like mob rule (also known as "democracy").
You mention the SO cord ampacity rating is at 86F but that's just an arbitrary (with some physics involved) number someone (likely working for or with the NFPA) decided was "okay". However, the "extension cord" I'm talking about would be a custom made one with whatever specifications the situation called for.

As for experiences..... I was attempting to install runway lights on a PRIVATE shared runway (8 owners total) of which I owned the first 1/4 mile. When I attempted to go through the official channels and get approval etc. I ran into all kinds of "code" and other regulatory issues. This is a 3000 foot dirt/"grass" runway with zero lights and zero approach guidance with a tall hill at the north end. It was absolutely unsafe to land at night but people did it by overflying a well lit 24 hour fuel station that was easily found, turning to a set heading, looking for a set pattern of lights on the houses, and then looking for "the dark hole" and descending until the landing lights picked out the runway and crossing your fingers that it wasn't the field before the runway. Totally safe right? NOT
All I wanted to do was mark a couple hundred feet of the end of the runway and put in descent guidance (three sheets of plywood set up like a gun sight aiming up the glide path with bright paint for the day and lighting for night.
At every turn I hit road blocks. The lights have to be XYZ specification. You need a permit to dig. You need a permit to wire it to your house. You have to use this wire. It has to be this that and the other thing. OH you'll need to upgrade your home electric service. And the need for a separate power meter and line was the story from the power company because it's not residential power use and they'd have to bill me differently. NONE of which the local authorities had mentioned.
The solution:
I literally bought a bunch of christmas tree mini lights that were parallel wired so a bulb going out wouldn't take out a string. I sunk a 4x4 post at the two corners of the runway with outdoor outlets. I cut the 4x4's 1/2 way through on the side an airplane would approach (break away feature). Then I ran direct burial cable from a foot away from an outside outlet to the near corner and from there across to the far corner. I then plugged in the Xmas lights to give a squared of U of light at the approach end. Another run of cable went up the side of the runway to provide the lighting for the three sheets of plywood comprising the VASI.
When all was said and done the runway was marked with lights and there was an approach slope indicator to ensure proper glideslope making night operations safe instead of dangerous (there had been several fatalities and a good number of bent tin over the years). AND since it wasn't hardwired and was on non residential land, no zoning or code applied to the system so all those roadblocks were bypassed.
Perhaps because one of my political offices was City Planning Commissioner and my minor was Criminal Justice I have different way of seeing around obstacles.

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by DeMac

(Mom & kids project. Power & Water. One final inspection, only.)

‐-------------------

OP question: Friends property - power, water, septic... what do I need to know?

A mom & kids living on friends property might choose dependability, safety and a secure feeling. The right to live free, not hide. You can do this without conflict or child safety risk.

Apply for a permit for homeowner installed plumbing & electric rv pedestal.
Dig a 18" deep trench from house to parking space, add two pvc lines (1 grey, 1 white), stub up 90s...


If you have to hire a pro to make the connections, do so. Ground & bond the steel bus to protect shoeless pets & kids.


Involve the kids, friends & family with projects. Add a picnic table &/or swing, early on. Do you have an option for a shaded area?

Septic plans? Or just more butts & showers.

This commode is Mom built & approved. Completed before purchacing a bus. Works now while you work on something better & standby when the house john is full.

Is a propane heated, outdoor shower an option?

Dbacks2k4 brought up a good point about your investment into Friend's property. Before you move onto the property, you'll likely have invested a couple hundred in material and days of labor. Something on paper to is the right way to go. (Schools often request a rental agreement, too.)

[DeMac]

Southern Oregon & South Florida have differing laws. In Florida, the County Sherrif sets up undercover sting operations in homes requiring permitted work and advertises for repairs.

Unlicensed contractors are among those who bid. Once unlicensed work commences, the surprise party appears, much like NBC's "To Catch a Predator". Company owner, workers, day laborers are gathered up and arrested. Below are a few news stories, covering the sting operations. Each one is from a the OP's area of the state.

www.workcompwire.com/bradenton-eight-arrests-in-unlicensed-contractors-sting/

www.heraldtribune.com/sarasota-county-unlicensed-contractor-sting-results-in-16-arrests

www.tampabay.com/unlicensed-contractor-sting-in-hillsborough-nets-118-arrests-9-repeat-offenders

www.baynews9.com/27-charged-in-unlicensed-contractor-undercover-sting

www.baynews9.com/contractor_sting_yields 11 arrests

www..insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/10-arrested-in-contractor-sting

www.tampabay.com/unlicensed-contractor-sting-nets-35-arrests-65-charges

www.abcactionnews.com/17-arrested-in-unlicensed-contractor-sting

These are contractors & their employees being arrested, not homeowners. Homeowners performing unpermitted upgrades may have have their utility privileges revoked, will notice steady property tax increases & experience additional scrutinization from county code enforcement agents. Fines, fees & other taxes (evaded by property owners) are assessed & the properties are leined under Florida property tax law.
(Note: OP is not the property owner)

[Wildfloweramanda]

Originally Posted by DeMac

‐-------------------

OP question: Friends property - power, water, septic... what do I need to know?

A mom & kids living on friends property might choose dependability, safety and a secure feeling. The right to live free, not hide. You can do this without conflict or child safety risk.

Apply for a permit for homeowner installed plumbing & electric rv pedestal.
Dig a 18" deep trench from house to parking space, add two pvc lines (1 grey, 1 white), stub up 90s...


If you have to hire a pro to make the connections, do so. Ground & bond the steel bus to protect shoeless pets & kids.


Involve the kids, friends & family with projects. Add a picnic table &/or swing, early on. Do you have an option for a shaded area?

Septic plans? Or just more butts & showers.

This commode is Mom built & approved. Completed before purchacing a bus. Works now while you work on something better & standby when the house john is full.

Is a propane heated, outdoor shower an option?

Dbacks2k4 brought up a good point about your investment into Friend's property. Before you move onto the property, you'll likely have invested a couple hundred in material and days of labor. Something on paper to is the right way to go. (Schools often request a rental agreement, too.)

The pictures were very helpful! I'm very visual. I had been told by another friend that having the RV plumbing and electric hookup is a good way to go too.

The area is already pretty shaded and my friend maintains her yard very well, so yes it will be a nice area for when my kids are at home with me. My oldest is 8 years old and she loves art so more than anything she will enjoy any painting that needs done. Idk if I can convince her of any other hard labor LOL

The homeowner's husband (well I guess that makes him the owner too) is a building framer and I have another friend who converted his Greyhound into his home that does beautiful cabinetry. I know electricians too. I am very fortunate to have a community of skilled professionals to help!

[Wildfloweramanda]

Originally Posted by DeMac

Southern Oregon & South Florida have differing laws. In Florida, the County Sherrif sets up undercover sting operations in homes requiring permitted work and advertises for repairs.

Unlicensed contractors are among those who bid. Once unlicensed work commences, the surprise party appears, much like NBC's "To Catch a Predator". Company owner, workers, day laborers are gathered up and arrested. Below are a few news stories, covering the sting operations. Each one is from a the OP's area of the state.

These are contractors & their employees being arrested, not homeowners. Homeowners performing unpermitted upgrades may have have their utility privileges revoked, will notice steady property tax increases & experience additional scrutinization from county code enforcement agents. Fines, fees & other taxes (evaded by property owners) are assessed & the properties are leined under Florida property tax law.
(Note: OP is not the property owner)

Warnings noted. Thanks for the links. Licensed contractors only. Unpermitted upgrades beware. 👍

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by DeMac

Southern Oregon & South Florida have differing laws. In Florida, the County Sherrif sets up undercover sting operations in homes requiring permitted work and advertises for repairs.

Unlicensed contractors are among those who bid. Once unlicensed work commences, the surprise party appears, much like NBC's "To Catch a Predator". Company owner, workers, day laborers are gathered up and arrested. Below are a few news stories, covering the sting operations. Each one is from a the OP's area of the state.

www.workcompwire.com/bradenton-eight-arrests-in-unlicensed-contractors-sting/

www.heraldtribune.com/sarasota-county-unlicensed-contractor-sting-results-in-16-arrests

www.tampabay.com/unlicensed-contractor-sting-in-hillsborough-nets-118-arrests-9-repeat-offenders

www.baynews9.com/27-charged-in-unlicensed-contractor-undercover-sting

www.baynews9.com/contractor_sting_yields 11 arrests

www..insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/10-arrested-in-contractor-sting

www.tampabay.com/unlicensed-contractor-sting-nets-35-arrests-65-charges

www.abcactionnews.com/17-arrested-in-unlicensed-contractor-sting

These are contractors & their employees being arrested, not homeowners. Homeowners performing unpermitted upgrades may have have their utility privileges revoked, will notice steady property tax increases & experience additional scrutinization from county code enforcement agents. Fines, fees & other taxes (evaded by property owners) are assessed & the properties are leined under Florida property tax law.
(Note: OP is not the property owner)

WOW Florida was on the short list. It just got scratched off. I don't do well with tyrannical regulations or authorities. Our founding fathers would not have put up with that kind of abuse of liberty.

[DeMac]

On the opposite end of the spectrum there are tragedies such as the Champlain Towers Collapse in Surfside FL, June 2021 (killing 98 people).

www.nytimes.com/ross-prieto-surfside-bldg-collapse

In this case the local building department & code inspectors are scrutinizated for not being thorough enough.

While one simple power cord will not level a 13 story building, they commonly ignite woodlands, torch rvs/ neighboring structures and electrocute lives.

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by DeMac

While one simple power cord will not level a 13 story building, they commonly ignite woodlands...

Most woodland fires started by electricity are first by natural causes (lightening) and SECOND by utility lines that haven't been properly maintained because utility companies rates are set by politicians who don't want to upset their constituents and so they keep rates too low for proper maintenance to be performed and then blame the power companies when fires happen.

While misused cords probably start a few wild fires, ALL human caused wild-land fires are significantly outnumbered by lightening caused fires.
That statistic surprised me when I first saw it.

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

ALL human caused wild-land fires are significantly outnumbered by lightening caused fires.
That statistic surprised me when I first saw it.

---------------------
Says, who?

I Googled it, as I didn't bear witness to all fires, myself:
"Wildfires do sometimes occur naturally, either ignited by the sun's heat or a lightning strike. However, most wildfires are caused by human activities, including unattended campfires, discarded cigarettes, arson and more. “Human carelessness is the biggest factor contributing to wildfires,” Roise said, Dec 3, 2021

The National Park Service agrees with Rosie:
www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluation
"Nearly 85 percent* of wildland fires in the United States are caused by humans. Human-caused fires result from campfires left unattended, the burning of debris, equipment use and malfunctions, negligently discarded cigarettes, and intentional acts of arson"

I don't know about every fire type or each probable cause. I do periodically repair electrical systems in structures which have had electrical fires. I have no forest fire experience. Who the hell is 'Rosie'?

[TaliaDPerkins]

"Most woodland fires started by electricity are first by natural causes (lightening)" <-- Still true, as most of those 85% are not started by homeowners and by electricity -- the mode under consideration.

[DeMac]

....commonly ignite woodlands, torch rvs/ neighboring structures and electrocute lives.

ALL human caused wild-land fires are significantly outnumbered by lightening caused fires.

-----------------------

I will testify to what I witness, what is common to me, however, I am not all knowing. I reposted what I read, which the National Park Service has written as they have the opportunity to witness "all" woodland fires & actively collect data.

How do you know that the quote above is "still true", Talia? Any reference to "all" you have witnessed? Stand in your truth. Tell us about "most of those 85%", as you saw it.

I live in an area of Florida known as the lightning strike capital of the US. I've never personnally witnessed a human or animal struck by lightning, hear more about shark bites (also rare). I have been burned by several cigarettes (nonsmoker), electrically shocked, barbecue burned, and experienced occasional fire pit owies. Why would anyone beleive lighting burning stuff is more common than our own life's experiences?

Did you read about PG&E paying $55 million to avoid criminal prosecution for their electrical forest fires?
www.npr.org/2022/04/12/california-wildfires-pacific-gas-electric-55-million
(Neither lightning or an extension cord, just old wire jacket & poor management)

[TaliaDPerkins]

Originally Posted by DeMac

....commonly ignite woodlands, torch rvs/ neighboring structures and electrocute lives.

ALL human caused wild-land fires are significantly outnumbered by lightening caused fires.

-----------------------

I will testify to what I witness, what is common to me, however, I am not all knowing. I reposted what I read, which the National Park Service has written as they have the opportunity to witness "all" woodland fires & actively collect data.

How do you know that the quote above is "still true", Talia? Any reference to "all" you have witnessed? Stand in your truth. Tell us about "most of those 85%", as you saw it.

I live in an area of Florida known as the lightning strike capital of the US. I've never personnally witnessed a human or animal struck by lightning, hear more about shark bites (also rare). I have been burned by several cigarettes (nonsmoker), electrically shocked, bab-b-que burned, and experienced occasional fire pit owies. Why would anyone beleive lighting burning stuff is more common than our own life's experiences?

Did you read about PG&E paying $55 million to avoid criminal prosecution for their electrical forest fires?
www.npr.org/2022/04/12/california-wildfires-pacific-gas-electric-55-million
(Neither lightning or an extension cord, just old wire jacket & poor management)

Your contention is that more fires are caused by regular consumer of electricity than by lightning or power company mains. You have produced no evidence of this.

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by TaliaDPerkins

"more fires are caused by regular consumer of electricity than by lightning or power company mains"

You wrote that lie, not me. Then you accused others (me) of writing it. I didnt paraphrase you, a quote, using the quote button.


Evidence? OK.

You testify as to knowing a stranger's contention, that is, you actually know me better than me. (omnisciens?) To support you accusation, that I've misrepresented some information, you chose to misquote the words clearly written on this very page. (False Witness, see: Moses's list.)

Do you have any useful information that may benefit the OP or other readers' safety?

Readers, can look at TaliaDPerkins previous posts. I do read though these frequently. Just click on the username & select from the drop down menu. I look for common themes, accuracy vs fantasy, complainers vs solutions, also scammers, too...

I welcome you to do the same with mine.

Ham & I also communicate via PM, we are both soldiers & we have a competitive respect for each other. We will find a way.

(Talia, you don't know me like that. No, I did not intend to write omnipotent, different word.)

[TaliaDPerkins]

No, I have not lied at all. I know of you what I have seen of you here.

You did so here.
The National Park Service agrees with Rosie:
www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluation
"Nearly 85 percent* of wildland fires in the United States are caused by humans. Human-caused fires result from campfires left unattended, the burning of debris, equipment use and malfunctions, negligently discarded cigarettes, and intentional acts of arson"

There is no evidence you have presented here that 85% of wildland fires is caused by regular consumers of electricity as opposed to lightning or power company mains.

That that is the criteria under discussion by you and now me comes from my replying to your comment in opposition to this:

Most woodland fires started by electricity are first by natural causes (lightening) and SECOND by utility lines that haven't been properly maintained because utility companies rates are set by politicians who don't want to upset their constituents and so they keep rates too low for proper maintenance to be performed and then blame the power companies when fires happen.

While misused cords probably start a few wild fires, ALL human caused wild-land fires are significantly outnumbered by lightening caused fires.
That statistic surprised me when I first saw it.

I.e., misused cords are regular consumers as opposed to power company mains or lightning.

Meanwhile, the margin of potential accuracy in what you claim is shrinking, and is in any case far more complicated than you make it out to be.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...wildfires.html

And your attitude towards the legally mandated use of a licensed contractor remains reflective of a worldview many people despise for good reason.

You can go ahead and have the last word, at least until you have actual evidence of what you are claiming.

[HamSkoolie]

I miss "spoke". My claim was that:

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

Most woodland fires started by electricity are first by natural causes (lightening) and SECOND by utility lines...

My mistakenly worded closing left out the "electricity" qualifier and was originally written as:

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

While misused cords probably start a few wild fires, ALL human caused wild-land fires are significantly outnumbered by lightening caused fires.
That statistic surprised me when I first saw it.

I should have typed:

"While misused cords probably start a few wild fires, ALL ELECTRICALLY CAUSED human wild-land fires are significantly outnumbered by lightening caused fires".


According to the National Inter-agency Fire Center in Boise Idaho (the people who coordinate wildland fires across the nation), lightening started 6,344 wildland fires in 2021. That doesn't include the 15-20 thousand or so non wildland lighting caused fires each year because the claim is only wildland fires caused by electricity. Non wildland fires aren't part of the claim.
https://www.nifc.gov/fire-informatio...ghtning-caused


My applologies for neglecting to qualify the final statement with "electrically caused" as the criteria.

[-TC-]

We all know what you meant, Ham. You & DeMac have reposted your sources. Thank you, both

I read through the posts a few times. Hamskoolie & DeMac have been very informative. Both provide alot of details & ways to accomplish the tasks original poster is facing.

Not sure what Talia (aka Eris) is offering. I see nothing positive coming from her posts. Seems to be more interested in stirring up sh¡t.

Don't even respond to her.

[DeMac]

Thank you, Hamskoolie. The data you posted is clear. I make no dispute, frankly I agree with you. You are right.

Ham & I also agree that afci & gfci requirements being required nearly everywhere is ridiculous.

The National Park Service (not me) claims "Nearly 85 percent of wildland fires in the United States are caused by humans".

Idk how they come up with that sentence. Their statistic does not include the words "more" or "most" nor do they even mention lightning.
Maybe power-line strikes could be both "human" & "lightning"? Idk. Wouldn't both statistical bean-counters count some of the same fires, anyway?

To be clear my statement "...they commonly ignite woodlands, rvs, structures..." makes no claim of "most" or "more" nor comparison to lightning. My opinion, "commonly" is from my professional experience, supported by this source:

www.static.stayonline.com/cpsc-gov-extension-cord-safety.pdf
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) estimates that "about 3,300 residential fires originate in extension cords each year, killing 50 people and injuring about 270 others. The most frequent causes of such fires are short circuits, overloading, damage, and/or misuse of extension cords."

Since we are in Friend's backyard, I offer RV extension cord safety tips.

Thanks, TC I dig the Greek reference.

[Wildfloweramanda]

Update from me, the OP!

I went and looked at this 8-window International bus today (doesn't run ... I'm gonna be stationary). He's asking $4K . The 11-window International I looked at is $2K but rougher shape. i honestly can't decide which is a better deal. Thoughts? Everyone seems to like the blue one but I don't want it to be an asthetic thing, I really want to know it's the better bus regardless of snazzy paint job. The advantages is the seats are out, it already has a white silicone roof paint, it has that nice side door, it's registered as an RV, and has a clean title.

He has also offered to let my pay part of it and make payments — which means he's ready to unload it. He owns a shuttle bus company and when the engine needed more work than he was willing to spend, he put it up for sale. What amount would you offer him?

My biggest concern is there was a discoloration on the inside ceiling at the same place where a vent that was painted over on the outside roof was located. Is that going to be as issue or did the silicone seal it? Property owner claims it hasn't had any water on the inside even with all the Florida summer storms we've recently had. I plan on keeping the original ceiling but may seal it with that alternative roof material that is posted somewhere in the forums. It keeps the bus "look" while making it look clean and finished.

There is one broken window but I assume thats not a big deal compared to all the other stuff that needs done. I was actually thinking of putting a closet area to the right of my bed in the back so I might just delete that window anyway. Best way to delete a broken window?