Steep grade and mountain pass directory

[sportyrick]

I found these a while back and thought I would share these with everyone.

[sportyrick]

Have everything you need to plan a trip in the mountains.

[Meathead]

Yes, I agree. I bought the digital version last year and keep it on my phone. I have the western version only.

I’m getting better at driving in the mountains, but at the time it helped me avoid some steep grades. Teton Pass outside of Jackson, WY comes to mind.

I recently saw a young YouTube bus couple almost trash their 545 trans and burn up their brakes on Teton Pass.

[emoji3522]Dave

[Iceni John]

Originally Posted by Meathead

I recently saw a young YouTube bus couple almost trash their 545 trans and burn up their brakes on Teton Pass.

[emoji3522]Dave

I don't get it. Why even attempt a pass like that in an obviously unsuitable bus? If it has a AT545, it's NOT intended to be driven up and down long/steep roads; buses with AT545s are for short around-town trips, not long slogs on the interstates or tackling serious mountain grades! Ideally one should also have a supplementary brake such as Jakes or a Telma or Williams for ventures into the mountains.

John

[Sehnsucht]

Originally Posted by Iceni John

I don't get it. Why even attempt a pass like that in an obviously unsuitable bus?

Inexperience. The catch-22 in this game is too low a bar for entry so lots of people scrape together a few grand, buy a rust bucket flatlands bus, dress it up, and suddenly think they're Admiral Byrd. Few ever give thought to what lurks behind the walls or under the hood until it becomes too big an issue and they've already invested in covering it up so they scrap the whole project too soon. Presumably they assume all school buses look alike so they must be similarly equipped as if these are Honda Accords on a used car lot.

[Drew Bru]

Originally Posted by Iceni John

I don't get it. Why even attempt a pass like that in an obviously unsuitable bus? If it has a AT545, it's NOT intended to be driven up and down long/steep roads; buses with AT545s are for short around-town trips, not long slogs on the interstates or tackling serious mountain grades! Ideally one should also have a supplementary brake such as Jakes or a Telma or Williams for ventures into the mountains.

John

Inexperience/unfamiliarity. I gotta admit, Teton Pass took us by surprise when we went up. I was looking at the road atlas for routing and not really thinking about the grade. As I recall, there was a warning sign at the beginning of the pass but we were pretty much already committed by then. Fortunately our mt643 transmission could handle it. Fortunately, also, there was a motorhome ahead of us and they became the a-hole that was slowing everyone down.
And having an electromagnetic retarder is one of the best aspects of our bus.

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by sportyrick

I found these a while back and thought I would share these with everyone.

Good share! That kind of info is invaluable to anyone wanting to travel coast to coast.

Originally Posted by Meathead

I recently saw a young YouTube bus couple almost trash their 545 trans and burn up their brakes on Teton Pass.

[emoji3522]Dave

If it's the same one I saw, I shook my head for most of the video.

Ignorance is no excuse, and unfortunately, the laws of physics are irrelevant to your ignorance.

"Oh hey, we blew a fuse. Let's just put a larger one in it, I'm sure there's nothing wrong."

"why are our brakes smoking?"

"We'd have been okay, we could have pulled the emergency brake, and stopped if our other brakes quit working." A hard lesson would have been learned there, if they survived the crash to indeed learn it. If your brakes are already overheated, the parking knob will do nothing in the situation.

"It's almost embarrassing being stopped here like this" Yes, because being stopped in the runaway ramp, or dead at the bottom of a ravine is a much better alternative.

I was half tempted to leave a comment on their video, but I knew I'd come off as a complete a**hole. I struggle to have empathy for people who seriously endanger those around them, and are completely oblivious to that. One of the most important things gone over in CDL training is how weight affects your ability to stop. I've been largely supportive of the no-cdl requirement for RV's, but videos like that really push me in the other direction.

Anybody behind the wheel of a bus or semi should know better, and if they don't, they shouldn't be behind the wheel. It's that simple.

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

Inexperience. The catch-22 in this game is too low a bar for entry so lots of people scrape together a few grand, buy a rust bucket flatlands bus, dress it up, and suddenly think they're Admiral Byrd. Few ever give thought to what lurks behind the walls or under the hood until it becomes too big an issue and they've already invested in covering it up so they scrap the whole project too soon. Presumably they assume all school buses look alike so they must be similarly equipped as if these are Honda Accords on a used car lot.

Probably one of the best things I've seen wrote on this site. Too many newbies look at busses like honda accords, in that they all should be valued the same. They don't understand that the "premium" options on a bus aren't leather seats or a 6 cd player, it's what's underneath that makes the difference.

I saw a FB post the other day, owner had a maxxforce 7 that was junk, and asked for advice on how to proceed. Last sentence said no negative comments. I laughed and replied stating they'd get no comments at all if it weren't for negative ones. Inexperience in a nutshell.

[Mekanic]

Originally Posted by Iceni John

I don't get it. Why even attempt a pass like that in an obviously unsuitable bus? If it has a AT545, it's NOT intended to be driven up and down long/steep roads; buses with AT545s are for short around-town trips, not long slogs on the interstates or tackling serious mountain grades! Ideally one should also have a supplementary brake such as Jakes or a Telma or Williams for ventures into the mountains.

John

It’s not the bus or trans that’s the problem it is the driver and the way the bus is driven.
This whole attitude of no compromise driving for people towing trailers and driving larger vehicles is what there is to blame.
If your bus can climb the incline at 35 then the best speed for the bus to last is most likely less than 28.
Instead of 35 at 1900 you drop a gear let the engine turn faster as you climb. Doing that will let the water pump (& Fan), oil pump, trans pump move more fluid cool better all while putting a less stress on the driveline.
If you have the biggest engine with a exh brake, then good for you. It no reason to look down your nose at those that done and drive a bit slower.

[TJones]

Originally Posted by Mekanic

It’s not the bus or trans that’s the problem it is the driver and the way the bus is driven.
This whole attitude of no compromise driving for people towing trailers and driving larger vehicles is what there is to blame.
If your bus can climb the incline at 35 then the best speed for the bus to last is most likely less than 28.
Instead of 35 at 1900 you drop a gear let the engine turn faster as you climb. Doing that will let the water pump (& Fan), oil pump, trans pump move more fluid cool better all while putting a less stress on the driveline.
If you have the biggest engine with a exh brake, then good for you. It no reason to look down your nose at those that done and drive a bit slower.

The problem is the driver and the AT545. Not having a locking torque converter the drivetrain will not provide enough engine braking to keep the speed down. The driver will have to rely on the brakes more than they should for speed control. If the driver is inexperienced they will ride the brakes all they way down the hill and burn them up. With little engine braking on a long grade like Teton Pass even proper brake application would likely smoke the brakes.

Ted

[cadillackid]

sorry i have to disagree.. there is just plain inferior equipment for the job.. a 1/4" ratchet with a 9/16 socket on it isnt gonna loosen a bolt tightened to 100 ft lbs without a ton of finagling and extra work and lots more time.. its the wrong tool for the job..


a converted bus borderline overloaded with stuff and water.. and such climbing mountains it was never bought to climb.. (sorry but a bus run in most cities is on mainly flat ground taking kids to school ).. now you want to put that thing on an 12000 ft climb and down.. you need the right tools.. and an AT545 isnt it.. it just isnt.. can you squeeze enough out of a 545 to do it? yep you can with a lot of finesse and messing around.. but its just better to have the right tools for the job...


theres good reason why many of the busses that came from obviously mountainness routes of the rockies and even the eastern part of the US had MT643 or 3000 series... those are HEAVY DUTY transmissions.. the allison 2000 series is a great unit for its overdrive and lockup.. (it asllows the bus to have lower rear gearing which is great for hill climbing).. the MT643 was still 1:1 but have you ever seen the innards of a 643? theres a lot of heavy metal and the clutches are big enough to wear as a steam-style necklace if you really wanted..



people that build TH-400s for their classic cars often use allison 545 clutches as they are a little beefier.. but point being many ofthe clutches in the 545 are the same size as those used in a car transmision (a good car transmission but still)...


yes you can run a 545 over a mountain pass at 10 MPH, 5 MPH whatever it takes, dropped down into first gear it will give OK engine braking and if the point is to make a trip like that once to move across the country then go for it.. but if your travel plans include lots of interest in mountain travel all over the west then build the right bus for the Job..



ther east of the mississippi mountains can be decently trekked in a 545.. although I wore out 2 doing it repeatedly.. your mileage may vary.. sure ill keep the 540 in my old classic because it isnt my goto ffor running over hills.. an occasional trip wont hurt it but I wouldnt run that bus over and over like I do the others. (that now have better transmissions)..

[turf]

if only i had a video camera...
y'all would be laughing at me when i burned up my 545.

as far as i know, this is the only way to become "experienced."

the manual for the 545 says you must rely only on the service brake for slowing, engine braking is not satisfactory.

people underestimate the 4way flasher. it works....really. use it. go up slow, go down slower.

i'm pretty use to the butt pucker hills we have in colorado. you have to ignore traffic and drive your vehicle. going with the flow will over heat you going up and light your brakes on fire going down...... been there, done that.

i like to smoke a doob, use the 4 ways and enjoy the ride.

at least im faster than a jeep jk trying to tow.

[Booyah45828]

The video I saw was incompetence. Too heavy, too fast, too much brake riding vs controlled on/off, too much "for the gram" BullS***. The at545 was the least of their issues in that scenario.

But for the record, even the mt643 won't be of much help on some of you're bigger hills, as the lockup clutch in the torque converter only works in 3rd and 4th. Get below 30 and you still might be SOL, depending on engine and gear ratios of course.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

The video I saw was incompetence. Too heavy, too fast, too much brake riding vs controlled on/off, too much "for the gram" BullS***. The at545 was the least of their issues in that scenario.

But for the record, even the mt643 won't be of much help on some of you're bigger hills, as the lockup clutch in the torque converter only works in 3rd and 4th. Get below 30 and you still might be SOL, depending on engine and gear ratios of course.

on decel my 643 stays in lockup for the upper 1/3 of second gear.. it wont shift back in lockup even at off throttle until early 3rd.. on medium throttle lockup comes on about 1/2 through 3rd..

[turf]

i think my lockup is only in 3 and 4th gears as well. but honestly, its never mattered. after getting rid of the failing 545, i can go up the steepest grades mostly mid 3rd gear. after you crest the top, the lockup holds you back.

i hardly think about grades any more after the swap. its that point at the top when the lockup catches and i remember how lucky i am.