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Old 07-25-2019, 07:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionsComfortBus View Post
Great post!

I have a appointment scheduled to have my 2 systems checked out. I suspect the front unit has a leak. Its output is not cooling as well as it did when it was first fixed. I am going to ask them to replace ALL the old freon lines, test the rear evap and condensor for leaks, 2 new compressors and maybe that will keep the interior cool(er) than sweating buckets before the AC was fixed.

I have a suggestion. Get your windshield tinted/covered with "Heat Blocking" film. That alone has made such a huge difference. It was pricey $500+ but nearly stopped the greenhouse effect in the drivers area. Its nearly clear so it will not effect night driving PLUS the reduction of UV exposure means less of a chance of getting skin cancer. Any little bit helps.

if you get new compressors, and yours are TM-16 ear mount style.. go with genuine SANDEN sd7H15 Enchanced.. these compressors have higher flow rates. and better flow at idle as well.. they make them in V-belt as well as flat belt drive.. I think yours are V on the DT360 (you lucky dog having 2 compressors on a DT360.. those brackets are absolutely unobtainable and I desperately need a second system...)..




I need to look into this heat film! I dont want to tint the windshield or really tint the windows for that matter but would love to block the heat..


My Andersen House windows have a film or pattern in their glass where they allow heat in at low sun angles such as winter and block it at higher.. and it really works!..
-Christopher

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Old 07-25-2019, 08:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by cdothill View Post
lol truer words couldn't be spoken! i completely agree. the ac is an eyesore-- and literal headache if you keep bumping into it, but DEFINITELY worth integrating into your design if you'll ever be anywhere even "warm."

great post. thanks!
I’ve smacked my head .... HARD on the Ac like 3 times yesterday within an hour. With the trim off . Thought I could be bleeding but now just have a big sore knot on my noggin
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:52 AM   #23
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Good factory air is the way to go if you have it. Really do not understand those who take it out.

Mine has. Very tiny in dash a/c. I assume factory built? However the alternator does not get enough belt wrap and since I replaced the alternator with z new and working one the belts tend to slip at high load. So when I changed the engine last winter I left off the compressor . Also moving the radiator forward left little room for the condensor.

So rooftop air and a genny for now. With a curtain to section off just the front and a duct to put the air right where we need it we do stay cool
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:20 AM   #24
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Ronnie.. yours had the optional LoadStar A/C.. International offered it as a Chassis option that wasnt part of the bus body.. it was an Under-dash unit very much like was offered in the Scout-80 (pre 73) or the Scout II (73-up).. its main purpose was to attempt to cool the driver, and to help wirth window defogging..



Superior experimented with it a step further and implemented an evaporator into the 'Circulaire' driver heater box to help with window defogging.. the condenser was in front of the radiator.. and in the Superior application they went to a non-standard taller condensor that covered more of the radiator..


Superior;s attempt iltimately never made it out of test. those busses were tested mainly in ohio, the results were the drivers running both the under-dash and defrosters (heater valve closed).. on hot days and the engine cooling system with belt driven fan at idle couldnt handle the extra condenser load..



Ronnie - did you happen to dave compressor brackets from your 392? I am unable to find any for my Superior and want to Air-Condition that bus...

-Christopher
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:11 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
Ronnie.. yours had the optional LoadStar A/C.. International offered it as a Chassis option that wasnt part of the bus body.. it was an Under-dash unit very much like was offered in the Scout-80 (pre 73) or the Scout II (73-up).. its main purpose was to attempt to cool the driver, and to help wirth window defogging..



Superior experimented with it a step further and implemented an evaporator into the 'Circulaire' driver heater box to help with window defogging.. the condenser was in front of the radiator.. and in the Superior application they went to a non-standard taller condensor that covered more of the radiator..


Superior;s attempt iltimately never made it out of test. those busses were tested mainly in ohio, the results were the drivers running both the under-dash and defrosters (heater valve closed).. on hot days and the engine cooling system with belt driven fan at idle couldnt handle the extra condenser load..



Ronnie - did you happen to dave compressor brackets from your 392? I am unable to find any for my Superior and want to Air-Condition that bus...

-Christopher
Yes I saved everything. If I put some form of engine driven a/c I will start fresh , so you are welcome to the brackets, and the old York compressor.
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:19 PM   #26
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OK.. so the heat wave this week and last has brought about quite a few messages to my inboxes on various social media platforms, sites, and my own email... "HELP! I took out my air conditioning to convert and now im sick on the highway...".. or "what can I do to get my A/C back? I gave away the parts...."...



and a couple other variations..





I get it.. you want to maximize your space and have an aesthetically pleasing conversion.. so the first thing you do is pull out those ugly damn things on the ceiling.. and take out those underbody condensors.. and plop a camper A/C on the roof and that will keep everything cool right? after all you are going to spray foam and do the floors and tint the windows...



YES! to some extenmt you are right.. all of this will help that mini split or camper A/C or 2 keep you cool.. .. when you arent creating a 70 MPH windstorm on a 100 degree freeway with gosh knows how many BTU of solar heat blasting in the front windshields as you roll along... just like you find out pretty quickly in cold weather every single air crack in your bus... heat is no different.. and you are essentially putting your bus into a windstorm everytime you drive it.. not to mention if you are front engine there is engine heat... and lots of it...



a conventional school bus from the factory will have 120,000 - 140,000 BTU of air conditioning... and even at that it will take quite a while to make your bus cool inside.. thats right 10-12 TONS.. enough A/C to cool a 40 employee office..


insulating and fixing up cracks and such will make things MUCH better.. but still you arent likel;y gonna be comfy in a heat wave like this with your genny running the minisplit...



one suggestion is that you incorporate your inside units into your build... I was at a bus rally last weekend and a fellow forum member has built his cabinets for his plumbing systems and pumps.. and his electrical systems and panels below those units.. so they are no longer head bangers or are they going to be ugly... they are integrated into necessary components of his build..



second suggestion is remove one system but keep the other.. most busses do have 2 compressors, condensors and 2 or 3 evaporators.. so keep one system mounted near the front where you and your family ride.. that can give you 60,000 BTU of A/C for driving... if you are willing to part with a little coin you can even buy evaporators that mount inside that useless space above your windshield where the school lights used to be...





I talked to one sad soul who bought a beautiful bus in an auction in arizona with 2 A/C's that kept him very comfortable driving in 115 degree heat last year.. only to pull them out.. hacked up all the wires and hoses and threw away the plastic covers for the evaporators and the screens for the condensors... drove his bus on its first camping trip this week.. with his minisplit on .. ended up with heat exhaustion and cut his trip off and came home before ever making it halfway to his first destination.... now he wants his A/C back... its over $3k in PARTS alone to restore those systems from Trans/AIR... the controls... the many feet of hose, all the fittings, wiring harnesses... those plastic evaporator covers? not cheap... and they are the drain pans for the condensate so they are pretty necessary.... Not to mention the labor involved in putting them back together...



LUCKILY he left the compressors and brackets on the engine.. the bracket set for a DT-466E for dual compressors is about $1000 new from bracketry systems...





im not saying dont take out the A/C.. but im saying THINK befiore you do... and if you want A/C in your bus for driving, then hold out for an auction with air-conditioned busses anbd buy one so-equipped.. bus A/C is expensive to add unless you find someone from category A above thats tossing them in the trash...



DRIVE YOUR BUS IN THE HEAT!!! with said factory A/C turned off.. and I mean really drive it... 2-3 hours in the interstate traffic with a few windows open heading into the summer sun.... then go back home and sleep on whether you deal with a little lost space over and under or wish to sweat... make an educated decision..


obviously there are those who plan to chase the 75 degree weather year round ... or live way up in the mountains and travel mainly there which have no use for driving A/C... or your rig is 99% stationary... or just a weekend warrior to the lake and back.. .


but alot of what i read is "we are going to travel the country... " or "spend our summers on the road all over the place".... etc etc...





-Christopher
One of the best articles I have seen on here. I have two units, one has a stuck Osage Valve & the other one need gas doing that today. Plan to get the other one going as well. This small 27 foot handicapped bus generates a ton of heat. I have a new roof top as well but of course can only run that with a generator. I like everybody else thought yank those older units out but glad I didn't. I have put a sink under one & will have other counter space under the other one so I won't bang my head anymore.
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:39 PM   #27
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Good thread Christopher! I can't imagine pulling a working or repairable AC system. Part of the reason I bought my bus was because it had AC.

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Old 07-28-2019, 11:43 PM   #28
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Glad you found a source for your bracket, Christopher!
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Old 07-29-2019, 06:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Glad you found a source for your bracket, Christopher!

that one will work for the Superior.. im still searching for the brackets for the DT360 on the DEV, I have another lead im working.. the condenser upgrade i did to the DEV bus over the past couple days made a HUGE difference.. the new ACT condenser dropped my inside Discharge air temps by 15 degrees or more.. im now able to get 30 degrees drop across the evaporators with both running on that bus.. plus with more dynamatting and insulating of the firewall and driver footwell areas ive stopped pretty much all the engine heat I can.. theres always going to be some but ive got it down by at least 75%.. to now where the heater panels and other metal around me are cool or just warm to the touch and not hot like previous.



the old condenser was rated 75,000 BTU by the company that sold it to me.. but manufacturing says its 60,000.. well I have close to 70,000 BTU of evaporators.. which technically over-runs the capacity of the compressor.. however the Sanden Enhanced compressor is under-rated on their Spec sheet.. something ive known of sanden for a long time, they are conservative.. I also increased the line sizes.. so instead of 6-8-10. for liquid-discharge-suction. im now at 8-10-12. which is more in line with what I think they should be .. vs the original designer.. i think the "tech" who helped design my original system was out of his element in having me Spec out a completerly custom bus A/C.. I had my ideas he had his.. rather than butt-heads I left the sizing to him as they are the manufacturer of the equipment and know it more than I do.. I been doing A/C (mobile and fixed) a long time but I dont profess to know more than engineers that manufacture the kit.. the new guy at the same place I worked with this time was 100% on-board with my ideas for sizing and the condenser size.. and now I have Ice cold Dash and Mid-ship A/C..



Live and Learn.. I have enough Busses and projects I'll find a home for that under-body condenser, after all it did make my DEV bus drive-able in summer for 3 years.. although maybe just really 2. since last year I blew up the transmission in june and didnt get the new one installed till fall..



the DEV bus is going to get its re-vamped A/C tested as its going to Key west from ohio this week...



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-Christopher
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:45 AM   #30
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Have you tried making your own penetrating oil. Use a 50/50 mixture of acetone and automatic transmission fluid. It work very well. There are people that have done YouTube vids on this mixture and say it works better than any store bought stuff.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:18 AM   #31
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Great read - great thread!

I pondered starting a new thread aimed at addressing "Creative Solutions" to the fugly factory airconditioning subject. The problem - I have no authority, knowledge or experieince one would need to answer questions or host such a thread. So I will pile onto this thread.



Since beginning my bus build in November 2018, I have gone 360 degrees with my two factory airconditioners. Thanks to WARNINGS from forum members. Originally I planned to ditch both, then I decided to keep one, now I am hoping to find a place for my second factory airconditioner.



Am hoping to place the second airconditioner UNDER my futon. Granted this will make the Futon sit higher off the floor. The futon will sit along the wall, behind the drivers seat. I'm wondering what kind of problems / solutions I will encounter? Has anyone seen an example of this before?


Best thanks to all.


Mike
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:56 PM   #32
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putting it under the futon shouldnt hurt anything at all, just make sure it has plenty of airflow in and out, and that it has a drain pan.. some of these units use the plastic cover as the drain pan, others have their own drain pan. also be sure you have a way to access its fittings, wiring, coils, and motors.. the motors dont last forever on these and the coils need cleaned fairly often..


some busses were built with "basement" air in which the evaporators were located underneath the bus and ducted inside..


-Christopher
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Old 07-29-2019, 03:52 PM   #33
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Air-con placement

Thanks Christopher. Appreciate the heads up advice.



After seeing how much air these factory units push out - I would describe it as a mini-hurricane. And, if I succeed at mounting my air-con at floor height, I would expect the Amarillo Texas dust not to stay on the floor very long after the ON knob gets pushed.


The ladies will need to hold their skirts down when I turn on the air.



Mike
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:22 PM   #34
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I only wish mine had the ACs when I bought it......
Makes me want to find one that doesnt run or wrecked that has them and just salvage the bus for parts and throw the rest in the dump....
Especially when considering 3k and more for parts to do it.... Can get running buses with them for 2500 I've seen, a non-runner with the price of scrap metal being so cheap might be had for 1-1.5k.
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:33 PM   #35
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I only wish mine had the ACs when I bought it......
Makes me want to find one that doesnt run or wrecked that has them and just salvage the bus for parts and throw the rest in the dump....
Especially when considering 3k and more for parts to do it.... Can get running buses with them for 2500 I've seen, a non-runner with the price of scrap metal being so cheap might be had for 1-1.5k.


a 2001(?) 12 window, high ceiling, basement storage, new tires, reasonable mileage BlueBird diesel bus sold for $1500 Canadian this morning in Grande Prairie Alberta ( $1125 US$ ) - I figure those mounted tires must have been worth double the price the bus sold for
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:37 PM   #36
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a 2001(?) 12 window, high ceiling, basement storage, new tires, reasonable mileage BlueBird diesel bus sold for $1500 Canadian this morning in Grande Prairie Alberta ( $1125 US$ ) - I figure those mounted tires must have been worth double the price the bus sold for
You mean from an auction? Yeah tires are expensive, if they say "new" I'd check real close to see if they were recaps/retreads. Hard to believe someone out outright sell one with "new" tires that cheap....
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Old 07-29-2019, 06:08 PM   #37
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I recently harvested 3 evaporators and 2 condensers from a fellow skoolie who decided to go ahead and remove his A/C, so i say watch around because some people do take them out .. and theres good reason to do it if you plan to live in cooler weather year round or are mainly living in the bus and not driving much.. online pros in texas often has non runners that go cheap and many of them have air conditioning.. currently, they dont have any busses up for sale.. but they often come up.. esp next spring you'll see a bunch..



-Christopher
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:01 PM   #38
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You mean from an auction? Yeah tires are expensive, if they say "new" I'd check real close to see if they were recaps/retreads. Hard to believe someone out outright sell one with "new" tires that cheap....


I was going by the detailed pictures of the tires - virtually no wear on them - I should have said 'virtually new' tires to be more accurate I guess
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:33 PM   #39
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You mean from an auction? Yeah tires are expensive, if they say "new" I'd check real close to see if they were recaps/retreads. Hard to believe someone out outright sell one with "new" tires that cheap....
6 all looked like this
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:37 PM   #40
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You mean from an auction? Yeah tires are expensive, if they say "new" I'd check real close to see if they were recaps/retreads. Hard to believe someone out outright sell one with "new" tires that cheap....
here's the rears off that bus
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