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Old 05-17-2021, 05:35 PM   #121
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a/c removal

Hi guys,



I have 2 a/c unit on my bus. I plan to remove the one in back of the driver seat and keep the one in the back of the bus so I have a/c while driving. Question, is it possible to keep the bus a/c compressor/condenser and replace the part where the air comes out with a smaller system? Is that even possible? If so, what would be a good replacement?



I'm thinking it would be a great idea if we can do something similar to the mini split, where we keep the current bus compressor/condenser and replace it with a mini-split indoor air-handling unit(s) (evaporator).



Thanks!

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Old 06-15-2021, 05:59 PM   #122
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had a funny one this week.. a couple messaged me on facebook as someone told them I could help remove their factory A/C properly.. we set it up where they would come out (even after I told them not to take it out they were INSISTING)...



I told them not to run it on the way out here. (I told them so it wouldnt make the components outside hot which was BS).. what I really believed is that they would see what its like to drive a metal box without A/C in 92 degree 70% humidity for 4 hours..


I got a call about 2 hours before the scheduled time.. they said they were sweaty, miserable, and tired.. and then thanked me for telling them not to use the A/C.. they were going to keep it after all and find a way to build around it or replace the inside units with new modern bulkhead mount units..



they switched on the A/C, turned around and said they had a nice enjoyable drive home.. (it was the longest theyd driven their bus since it had been purchased)...


so again.. if you plan on ripping the road A/C out.. drive the bus on a nice Hot day for a COUPLE HOURS at least with it turned off... on the freeway...
-Chris
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:01 PM   #123
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:31 PM   #124
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Old 06-16-2021, 12:18 AM   #125
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This should be a permalink.
It is already
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Old 03-26-2022, 10:36 PM   #126
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Yes,, use long flare nuts if there is going to be any movement of the tubing. Bronze if you can find them. And flare tite gaskets. You can get them at Amazon for $15/ set. Orbital flaring tool helps, a drop of oil on the flare nut threads prevents distortion as the connection is tightened.



Leak test, and leak test again the next day. NO LEAK is tolerable. Harbor Freight has a good $70 leak detector.



Pump down the hoses after making connections and before releasing the freon. It's amazing how many DIY ers think they can avoid this pump down. Take your time and do it right the first time. Doing it a second time is a real PIA. I do these as a sideline and all of mine are still going strong.



Until I saw this thread I was planning on pulling out the engine AC and mounting a 12K mini split where the compressor mounted (driver side). Now, I think the idea of keeping the one evaporator makes the most sense. I can put the mini split somewhere else



I'm a big mini split fan. Easy on electricity, quiet inside and out , but I understand that while going down the road on a hot day, a mini split isn't going to keep the interior cool.
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Old 03-27-2022, 07:54 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
Yes,, use long flare nuts if there is going to be any movement of the tubing. Bronze if you can find them. And flare tite gaskets. You can get them at Amazon for $15/ set. Orbital flaring tool helps, a drop of oil on the flare nut threads prevents distortion as the connection is tightened.



Leak test, and leak test again the next day. NO LEAK is tolerable. Harbor Freight has a good $70 leak detector.



Pump down the hoses after making connections and before releasing the freon. It's amazing how many DIY ers think they can avoid this pump down. Take your time and do it right the first time. Doing it a second time is a real PIA. I do these as a sideline and all of mine are still going strong.



Until I saw this thread I was planning on pulling out the engine AC and mounting a 12K mini split where the compressor mounted (driver side). Now, I think the idea of keeping the one evaporator makes the most sense. I can put the mini split somewhere else



I'm a big mini split fan. Easy on electricity, quiet inside and out , but I understand that while going down the road on a hot day, a mini split isn't going to keep the interior cool.

all good things for flare leaks! flare leak seal is also an easy way to mae sure flares dont leak.. so far in the 13 years my minisplits have been in my house I have only had 1 leak due to a pipe broke... copper tube cracked inside the outdoor unit.. only way to fix that was to braze it up .. I unfortunately see a lot of people skip the evacuation stage of an install ..and mist often they are installing their units when its the hottest and most humid weather which sends the moist moisture into the system.



I used to officially be in the HVAC business so I have all the tools still.. but reality is the tools are not cheap.. much cheaper to hire a professional to evacuate and check for leaks. I still do some HVAC work for friends, and quite a bit on busses but im not in the thick of it anymore.
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Old 03-31-2022, 03:44 PM   #128
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What do you think?

I have read/skimmed the whole thread. Chris: my AC does not come on when I turn it on. It is an R-12. It does have two compressors.

I do not know the last time it worked.

Consider that I am planning on insulating.

Is it worth fixing?

I am right now trying to figure out how much insulation to put in (foam board) on the floor. So I am taking recommendations for that.

I will be walling off the back half of the bus as unconditioned. That leaves 14’ that I would like comfortable (does not need to be cold) while driving.

Has anyone considered using a small AC unit to blow through a mesh seat? Seems like cooling the person(s) is waaaaaay more efficient than cooling a bus while driving.

Thoughts?
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Old 03-31-2022, 03:47 PM   #129
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☝️ Adding a small auto AC unit.

Trying to be clear
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Old 03-31-2022, 04:27 PM   #130
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an auto A/C unit wont touch a bus.. and blowing through a seat will just create a damp seat in humid conditions... its an R12 system but doesnt mean you can use a replacement R12 drop in refrigerant or convert it to 134a and run it.. insulate the bus and keep one.. duct a good porion of it up to the driver area..


Trans / AIR units have always been wired so that when the freon is low neither the fans nor the compressor will kick in...
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Old 03-31-2022, 04:49 PM   #131
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I am glad that you posted this, and even more glad that I asked!

Just keep one? I presume that you think that would be enough, am I correct?

How hard is it to cap off one side?
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Old 03-31-2022, 06:36 PM   #132
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Church buz

I am keeping both of my engine driven ac systems. I have a 25’ tc2000 with 5.9 Cummins 12 valve. I have up to 10 humans to keep comfortable while driving down the road.
If one system goes down, I still have something to help with heat.
William
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Old 03-31-2022, 08:38 PM   #133
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Hey you guys what is that number for BTU's that a human being puts out? Isn't it like 200 BTU just sitting. Go add up how much heat will be added to the inside of a bus with 10 human beings in it????? Sunshine, engine heat, road heat reflecting up, tire heat....wow that makes it pretty hot in a bus doesn't it. I still have my bus windows and when I open them all up it's a tornado in there, the only place sweaty is the seat of your pants, at least while you are running down the road. Keep your air boys.
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Old 03-31-2022, 10:36 PM   #134
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I'm struggling with the whole AC thing too. The newer Blue Bird conventional buses we have use a large evaporator at the front above the windshield, and one above the the rear emergency door. The older pushers have evaporators running along both sides, just above the windows. Leaving one along one side probably wouldn't be that big a deal,, except maybe the shower. I'm sure that I could come up with a workaround. The Bluebirds just have a small covering over what must be the refrigeration piping to the front evaporator.


Part of the answer to this question is probably just where you are going to be using your bus,, and how. If you are living in it,, you could easily fit a mini split where the existing AC compressor is on the Wright pusher I drive now. It has a cummings engine . I saw another pusher with a caterpillar engine with a huge amount of space to the right (looking forward). I also have a Northern Lights generator I bought one summer to get me through four hurricanes in Key West. It has less than 300 hours on it,, radiator cooled, runs at 1800 RPM. It would fit to the right to that Catepillar engine nicely.


A two ton minisplit driving two heads (evaporators). One in the front, the other in the bedroom at the back. Some of the engines have relatively small alternators,, others, quite large ones. Those little wood s toves are cute,, but I heated with wood several years of my life,, and I want to avoid it. It's always dirty and a PIA. I loved the quality of the heat,, and if there were a mini pellet stove available,, maybe.





I never took much interest in the engine compartment before beyond the necessary pre-trip (four fluids, five components). I broached a possible transfer to the shop today,,, and the answer basically was,, NFW, we're so short of drivers that it's NOT going to happen. It would be nice to know a bit more about the bus going forward.


Now I look in the back of every bus that has the engine compartment door open. I get a lot of strange looks from other drivers. There is a LOT of variation.



I too was going to insulate the bus with a thin closed cell foam, and maybe skin it with some of that thin wall board you used to see in trailers and RV's. Same-O with the floor, insulate and use some of that wood strip flooring. It will give me a dated look There is some ceramic tile that is identical (wood planking) that would serve in the bath, and a nice piece of carpet in the bedroom, over a thick pad. I'm only going to leave a few windows, and I can tint them with some heat reflective film.


Hard decisions,, all of them. And if you make the wrong one,, not easy and very expensive to fix.


I've attached a couple pics,, one of the mini splits I install as a sideline. These heat and cool about 600 sq ft, and we have poor wall insulation in Arizona. The other of a side evaporator in a Wright bus. I pay $550 for the complete 12K mini split unit with kit, and it's a quality unit. They take consistently just over 1000 watts. I suspect less when they are not seriously running,, as I see the condensor fan running at different speeds. but I haven't had time to log the power usage yet.
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Pusher Bus Evaporator.jpeg   MiniSplit Condensor.jpeg   MiniSplit Evaporator.jpeg  
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Old 03-31-2022, 11:44 PM   #135
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So are there evaporators running the whole length or does it just make it easier to keep the box the whole length of the bus. Maybe they are using some of it for intake and some area's exhaust? Any filters?
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Old 04-01-2022, 01:59 AM   #136
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Those are just ducts for the A/C that run the length of the bus. The evaporator is in the back above the rear window.
My 31' Thomas HDX has a Carrier 120k BTU rear mounted unit like that with the side ducts. Driving across Arizona at 102 degree ambient temperatures, the inside of the bus was at 62 degrees. There is no way I would remove that system.
The condenser fans (all 5 of them ! ) and the evaporator fan are powered by a separate 24 volt 200 amp alternator.
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Old 04-02-2022, 09:17 AM   #137
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This thread has been an incredible journey. I've read it in detail twice and the information is extremely helpful. I want to both drive and live in the bus (not all the time possibly, but when I do I want to be comfortable).


This is SUCH an important part of the conversion, and to get it wrong, especially after you finish the interior,, you will look at a lot of expense and heartbreak to rectify it.


The solar part is relatively simple. I've lived with solar for ten years on my farm and learned quite a few things. Simple things, like don't fill the batteries more than 1/4 inch above the plates. More just leads to gassing and more corrosion on top of the batteries. If it were a bus, I would go with lithium. More money than the golf cart batteries, but can be stashed in places that wouldn't accommodate lead acid. Solar panels are cheap and would go a long way toward shading the roof. Big split phase inverters that provide both 110 and 220 are available,, I have one that provides 6KW with a 12KW surge, but I use it rarely.



The problem with the big iron is the "housekeeping". This inverter consumes 240 watts just to live. The inverter I do use is a 5KW Chinese unit I paid about $500 for. It only takes 25 watts to keep it turned on.


You learn to live with solar. We used to incubate chicks. So you have the incubator,, then you have the brooder , and it's ALL at night and a lot of power. No we just buy the chicks for 85 cents each. That problem solved.


During the day we have an excess of power, we suck it up by doing laundry, crockpot full of beans, bread maker, etc.


Lights are no longer a problem. Everything is LED. I have a big yard light, 36 watts, and the rest of the lights probably don't amount to more than 100 watts total.



I'm a fan of discrete components. An mppt solar controller, inverter, not only can you choose the best most suited to your requirements, but if a piece fails, you just buy what you need.


In ten years I've not had a panel issue, and they put out now what they did when they were new. They need to be cleaned frequently. We do it monthly. They need to be "scrubbed", not just hosed down. We use one of those extendable handle brushes sold for cleaning vehicles.


My panels are riveted to my zinc roof. I did this initially to avoid theft. My cabling is enclosed in metal emt, with lidded handy boxes for the connections. The panels are strung 3 in series, 6 sets in parallel. Other than keeping them clean,, they require no effort.


Batteries have to be checked for water, but if things are set right, you will use less than you might otherwise. I have a 48 V system, and bring the voltage up to 57 and hold it for a couple of hours (when I have the sun to do it, and I generally do).



You CANNOT let batteries sit uncharged. The process that provides electricity is simple,, the sulfur in the electrolyte combines with the pure lead in the battery plates to make lead sulfate. When the battery charges,, this sulfur returns to the electrolyte. Initially soft, the lead sulfate hardens over time, and eventually is not retrievable. SO,, keep the batteries charged, however you must.


Properly cared for, the LA batteries have an amazing life. Lithium is best, but even used lithium is three times what new LA costs.

>>>>> But in a bus,, I would use lithium. Lighter, no water to check.

Lithium is heat sensitive, and could burn your bus to the ground if the installation is not carefully designed. Once it starts to burn, the fire is hard to put out.


This post rambles, I'm sorry, it mirrors my thought process about converting a bus. Thank God, I found this site BEFORE I bought my bus!!


As in the rest of life, what you don't know is what kills you Or, at least costs you a LOT of money.
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Old 04-02-2022, 09:33 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
an auto A/C unit wont touch a bus.. and blowing through a seat will just create a damp seat in humid conditions... its an R12 system but doesnt mean you can use a replacement R12 drop in refrigerant or convert it to 134a and run it.. insulate the bus and keep one.. duct a good porion of it up to the driver area..


Trans / AIR units have always been wired so that when the freon is low neither the fans nor the compressor will kick in...


Yes, watch compressor clutch when someone turns on AC. If it doesn't engage, start there. As Christopher says,, low pressure switch first.

Gauge set is cheap. Do you have ANY pressure? If so you can get away with adding refrigerant. If no, system will have to be pumped down. Leave the gauge set connected a couple of days. Any leak has to be fixed.

R12 USED to be available cheaply in Mexico.
I haven't checked recently.
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Old 04-02-2022, 11:31 AM   #139
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actual R12 is getting hard to get or at least pricier..



the stuff i run in my Air conditioners will end up just creating a bunch of hater comments so I dont mention it here.. but its damn cold and works great.. runs with really perfect Head pressure too...
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Old 04-02-2022, 01:10 PM   #140
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R12

I have a cylinder 30lbs. I am open to barter. I have converted to a drop in refrigerant in me r12 systems.

William
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