Thinking about traction tires and chains

[wrenchtech]

My bus came with rib tires on the drive axle. Every commercial truck I ever drove in winter weather had traction tires. Anybody ever tried driving a bigger bus in snowy conditions with rib tires in the rear? And what about snow chains. In the western states commercial vehicles are required to carry them. How about Skoolies?

First the legal question, is an RV plated bus required to carry chains in states were commercial vehicles are required to?

Different states have different requirements as to which tires need to have chains and that can depend on the weather conditions as determined by the authorities. I have a lot of experience chaining 18 wheeler’s.For most mountain driving, I felt good in most conditions with chains on the two outer tires on one of the drive axles and the two outer tires on one of the tandems on the trailer. Sometimes, specially bad when it was especially bad, I ran another set of chains on the outer wheels of the second drive axle. Beyond that, I would have to sit it out for lack of additional chains.

The last company that I drove for was based in Wisconsin and ran a lot of trips out west. They had a hell of a time finding drivers who could properly chain. The drivers lacked knowledge about how to chain and were fearful of driving in winter condition‘s in the mountains. Drivers who are based in places like Colorado, might have to chain many days during winter and can get the job done quickly.

Of course commercial truck drivers have to get their loads delivered. I think most Skooly people can afford to pull over and wait until the weather gets better.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Short answer, I don't think RVs are technically required to carry tire chains. HOWEVER, being an RV doesn't change its traction disadvantages. Better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them. i.e., just because you CAN get away with not having them, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Rib tires, as you describe them, sound like trailer or steer tires. Some truckers use trailer tires on the drives to improve fuel economy, but they have poor traction in mud, snow, etc.

As you already (or should) know from apparent experience driving OTR, you need not chain the steer (front) tires. Only the drive (rear) tires. Some newer buses built in the past 10-15 years have automatic chains that rotate and slip under the tires as they turn, you may want to check if your bus is so equipped.

As an aside, don't ever put retreads on a rim that will be used on a steer axle. It is highly dangerous and illegal in CMV usage, especially as a bus.

My $0.02 -- it may be exempt from DOT requirements when titled as an RV, but that doesn't mean it should be.

[Ronnie]

I have ribbed all the way around on mine. However I avoid snow mostly because I do not want salt on my bus. I did get into a light snow once and did not have any traction issues, There was slush on the road, no hard packed snow. I do have a locking rear though, so that makes a difference.



Siping your current tires will help on hard packed snow and ice. You may want to look into that.

[wrenchtech]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I have ribbed all the way around on mine. However I avoid snow mostly because I do not want salt on my bus. I did get into a light snow once and did not have any traction issues, There was slush on the road, no hard packed snow. I do have a locking rear though, so that makes a difference.



Siping your current tires will help on hard packed snow and ice. You may want to look into that.

I hadn’t thought of that. It would be interesting to see what kind of gain you’d get with that. I’m heading out west as soon as I get my bus insulated. I think tire chains and real traction tires are going to be a wise investment.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by wrenchtech

I’m heading out west as soon as I get my bus insulated. I think tire chains and real traction tires are going to be a wise investment.

Yes, a very wise investment. But I would also check to see if your bus is auto-chain equipped, and if it is possible to swap it from a later bus that's being scrapped.

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Siping your current tires will help on hard packed snow and ice. You may want to look into that.

Siping may work for rain and slush that isn't much worse than rain, but a smooth-grooved tread is NOT what you want with any real snow accumulation, especially the light, powdery stuff that's slicker, nor do you want a smooth-grooved tire in mud or on ice, siped or not.

Rule of thumb, if it has the potential to separate the tread from the pavement for even an instant, it's dangerous. No different than hydroplaning. And smooth-groove tread tires have more rubber, which will have more of a tendency to ride on top of anything on the road rather than push it through the tread and bite down into it, as a regular lug-tread tire does.

Granted, these beasts do have more weight on the tires than the average vehicle, but more weight on the tires tends to spawn overconfidence, which leads to pushing one's luck. And once you break something this heavy loose, it's not likely to stop until something bad happens.

[Ronnie]

Siping gives the tire many "edges" to bite. Even a deep tread mud tire will do much better if siped for snow and ice. Mud tires with big blocks do not grip hard packed snow well. The more edges the better. There are a number of studies showing this, so might want to look them up.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Siping gives the tire many "edges" to bite. Even a deep tread mud tire will do much better if siped for snow and ice. Mud tires with big blocks do not grip hard packed snow well. The more edges the better. There are a number of studies showing this, so might want to look them up.

That's interesting. I had heard a great deal about studding, but was a bit nervous about suggesting that with this type of tire.

[magnakansas]

From discussion with michelin and goodyear tire engineers.... the idea of sipes is for the ice/snow to pack into the sipes. The snow/ice packed into the sipes is what helps to give the traction on the snow and ice. If you look at a tire like the bridgestone blizzak that has been running in the snow, you can see how the snow is filling all the little cuts.

This is information from a few hours of discussion with the tire guys. People I know that work for the tire companies.

william

[HazMatt]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Short answer...

bra-*freakin'*-VO!

[HazMatt]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I have ribbed all the way around on mine...

Is it true that they enhance her pleasure? [emoji848]

[Johnthebusboy]

Carry chains and get your tires siped.
And put the chains on once or twice in warm weather so you how.

[Brewmaster]

I agree, carry chains and your golden. another version is called cabled chains, A bit easier to put on and good in snow, but real deep snow requires real chains.. As an ex fleet manager I can tell you that chains are the best thing to have. The folks running skoolies have an advantage to not being REQUIRED to run in snow and ice so they can adjust for this. My unit has traction tires on the rear. Yes, they are a bit noisy at highway speeds and they do heat up a bit and they do drop down my fuel mileage some however, They will perform well in 6" of snow. More than that, I have a choice, park it, or put on the chains. I read mention of studded tires and that is an option also however, some states only allow studded tires to be run in the winter months then they must be removed for the summer. Also studded tires will start to throw out the studs at speeds of 55 mph or more and you will get lots of holes in you fenders and your wheel wells. I ran studded tires on my city trucks and they worked just fine, but never on a highway truck. My intrastate trucks had traction tires and single chains for their drive axles, The interstate trucks had highway tires and double chains for their travels as they had to keep on moving. Take this for what its worth, Just my thoughts on tires and chains.

[sportyrick]

I have run into all kinds of snow, ice etc with my bus and it has steer tires on the rear, never a problem. Have got it stuck a couple times off pavement and the problem is clay building up on them and then they just slip. I don't think it matters what kind of tire it is if you are in the midwest they will load up and spin when stuck in soil. Not sure about mountains and snow as I live in the midwest but have never had any problems in snow around here.