Wandering bus, or should the 500 lb. generator be slung in front of the rear axel?

[David914]

Hello again! Hope I am not wearing out my welcome with all my quesions.

I have noticed that our Blue Bird TC2000 haa a tendency to weave from side to side. I had the outer tie rods replaced which corrected part of the problem. I suspected that the prolem lied in pulling our 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee. But I have been told that the problem was having too much weight in the bus BEHIND the drive axle. Here's the probloem- we have not had the Onan Diesel generator installed yet. The place doing the work want to place it .... yes, you guessed it, BEHIND the drive axle. I am wondering if this will make the problem worse. Woulde ballast infront of the axle improvfe or at least stableize the ride? The bus & toad total weight is 20,400. I am open to any and all imput about this situation.

[Oscar1]

Hello David
I am guessing a little here but am I correct that with that total weight your bus is not a 40’er? Closer to 30’ than 40’ A shorter wheel base is definitely going to affect handling and yes any additional weight behind the drive wheels will compound that effect. As weight is added at the rear of the vehicle you are making the front end lighter and taking weight off the steering wheels. On semi trucks the wheels on the trailer ride in an adjustable frame for just that reason, sliding the wheels forward or back even just a few inches greatly changes the weight on the drive wheels which in turn affects the front wheels. If you have a shorter wheelbase that effect is even greater. In my opinion your weight distribution is more important here than towing the jeep. If it was me I would try and get that big weight in front of the rear axle.
Good luck
Curtis

[Oscar1]

One other thing, you asked about ballast in front of the axle? That would likely make things no better and maybe worse as you are now adding even more weight on the rear end and lightening the front end.

[john61ct]

Get a pair of portable "companion" Honda inverters and over time move to energy efficiency and mostly-solar so you only need them a few hours per week.

[David914]

Sorry about that. Our bus is a 35'.

[somewhereinusa]

While it will have an effect, it shouldn't be that much. That's only 2 football players riding in the back seat. Look at how many seats are behind the rear axle.

[Truthseeker4449]

Are you flat towing the Jeep? Perhaps there's an alignment issue in the Jeep pushing sideways on the back of the bus?

[David914]

In this case, i must respectfully disagree with you. The 4' long storage area ( there's no spare tire ) is used for my tools. That in itself is around 200 lbs. Add to that, we have a queen-sized bed matress on wooden frame, hot water heater & fresh water tank ( 40 gal. ) While the water heater and fresh water tank are empty when traveling, add that to persomal items & the estimated weigh behind the back axle is well over 500 lbs. If the onan generator is mounted in back also, thats 1000 lbs.

[David914]

I thought of that too. And while I have experienced the tow bar arms to lock in place initially, it's working as it should. Jeep was aligned not long ago, as we had 4 new tires installed and had it alligned at the same time.

[somewhereinusa]

Originally Posted by David914

In this case, i must respectfully disagree with you. The 4' long storage area ( there's no spare tire ) is used for my tools. That in itself is around 200 lbs. Add to that, we have a queen-sized bed matress on wooden frame, hot water heater & fresh water tank ( 40 gal. ) While the water heater and fresh water tank are empty when traveling, add that to persomal items & the estimated weigh behind the back axle is well over 500 lbs. If the onan generator is mounted in back also, thats 1000 lbs.

If this is about my post your original title says 500#. That's beside the point. Add the number of seats your bus used to have behind the rear axle. Multiply by whatever you think an adult weighs. Then double that (two people per seat). That weight is way over your 1000#s.

[Oscar1]

My bus is also 35’ front engine with a short wheelbase with only three rows of seats behind the rear axle. I can assure you those seats were never designed for two 250 football players per seat. As I stated earlier I believe weight distribution may be the biggest factor but not the only one. Many other things may contribute to this situation, tires, shocks, mechanical and road condition, load distribution for and aft and vertically. Roof racks? Heavy upper cabinets? The effect of shifting weight is greater than the weight itself, think about the stability of a boat if you move a 80lb battery from one side to the other you may have only moved 80lbs but you didn’t just add to one side you have reduced from the other. Every boat is designed with the weight low and on the center line. Bulk liquid tankers are baffled to prevent free surface weight transfer. Think about the athletic hammer throw like your generator, that little ball doesn’t weigh much until it’s moving then that weight is a lot harder to hold on to pulling that athlete around pretty good.

[john61ct]

A normal healthy bus should not have a problem adding 500lbs behind the rear axle if not already imbalanced COG.

But in this case I think not a good idea, might make a critically unsafe situation worse.

Fixing that should be a high priority.

Meantime, stand by my above suggestion.

[Artor]

Originally Posted by David914

In this case, i must respectfully disagree with you. The 4' long storage area ( there's no spare tire ) is used for my tools. That in itself is around 200 lbs. Add to that, we have a queen-sized bed matress on wooden frame, hot water heater & fresh water tank ( 40 gal. ) While the water heater and fresh water tank are empty when traveling, add that to persomal items & the estimated weigh behind the back axle is well over 500 lbs. If the onan generator is mounted in back also, thats 1000 lbs.

It sounds to me like the genny itself isn't a problem, but you might already have too much weight back there. Try moving your water tanks forward if you can.
40 gallons of water weighs 334 pounds.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

I doubt you are over weight on the rear end and you have had your TOAD aligned with new sneakers to flat tow. So should be good to go but not?
a few questions if i may?
does your bus have leaf spring suspension and have you checked it for a broken spring in the spring packs?
do you have air bags in the rear suspension system?
is your added additional weight inside spreaded evenly or proportioned evenly between both sides?
do you have dual tires on the rear and if so are all the tires aired to the same pressure?
lots of variables could be causing your issue like a broken sprink in a pack,a worn on bushing on the spring connections, if you have air bags one that has a tiny leak and not pressurizing to match the other dual tires that one side has an inner that is not holding and the outer is holding all the weight while the other side has two holding?
just questions to try to help

[Sp6saz]

I hope this isn't a problem for you because i put a lift on the back of my bus to haul my Harley on back there up in the air and that weighs 800 lbs dry and the lift itself weighs 300 lbs. And i see motorhomes carrying harleys like this all the time. What would be the difference.

[JackE]

Does your bus wander the same without the jeep attached? That is the simplest way to determine if the wandering is caused by the toad or if it's a bus problem. Contrary to what Oscar said, any weight you add in front of the rear axle will help if your problem is that you are too light on the front end. Everything attached behind the rear axle will take weight off the front axle. Everything in front of the front axle will take weight off the rear axle. Everything in between the axles will put weight on both axles. Take your bus to a truck stop and have each axle weighed. If your total is 20,000# and your front weight is only 5,000#, you are probably getting a bit too light on the front. Mine stripped down is a little over 20,000 total, 13,000'ish rear axle, 7,000'ish front axle. I am 40' with a RE 8.3 Cummins.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

its a bus with straight line rub rails from the factory?
almost anyone should be able to stand back and look at those lines and tell if they are overloaded from back to front and a four down TOW other than the weight of the receiver installed under the bus should not add any weight because the vehicle carries its own weight unless you dont use a drop down hitch to level the tongue of the tow bar?
then the bus is trying to lift the weight of the toad the entire time and you are not completely 4 down

[Ranchorossa]

How does the bus drive when you aren't towing anything? If it drives fine, problem solved. Have you tried to tow anything else? Try towing an empty trailer. If it drives good, put some weight in or on the trailer and see how it does. Start simple and then work your way to the complicated and possibly costly issues.

[ChuckRatto]

Originally Posted by David914

Hello again! Hope I am not wearing out my welcome with all my quesions.

I have noticed that our Blue Bird TC2000 haa a tendency to weave from side to side. I had the outer tie rods replaced which corrected part of the problem. I suspected that the prolem lied in pulling our 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee. But I have been told that the problem was having too much weight in the bus BEHIND the drive axle. Here's the probloem- we have not had the Onan Diesel generator installed yet. The place doing the work want to place it .... yes, you guessed it, BEHIND the drive axle. I am wondering if this will make the problem worse. Woulde ballast infront of the axle improvfe or at least stableize the ride? The bus & toad total weight is 20,400. I am open to any and all imput about this situation.

I have a 32 ft Thomas and have my Cummins/Onan generator behind the rear axle. I also replaced my tie rod ends and had alignment checked. I tow a Subaru on a 20 rt car hauler with a tool carrier and spare tires for both trailer and bus, in otherwords, alot of bus tail weight. I switched to 11R22.5 tires and keep them at max pressure. I do have leaf springs all 4 corners. Squirrely driving is noticeable but handled okay even in mountain switchback roads. Just drive within safe speeds and take care on long downhills to avoid brake overheat.

[Oscar1]

Originally Posted by Sp6saz

I hope this isn't a problem for you because i put a lift on the back of my bus to haul my Harley on back there up in the air and that weighs 800 lbs dry and the lift itself weighs 300 lbs. And i see motorhomes carrying harleys like this all the time. What would be the difference.

The motorhomes you are referring to are likely 40‘er’s with tag axles, the bus in question is 35’ single axle with a wheelbase length of about 16’ you’re comparing apples and oranges. There are too many possible factors here so look at them all before moving forward.
Open the back door and put 500lbs In there and go for a drive, see what happens.
Look at the condition of the front tires also.
Someone suggested broken spring, very good idea.
Or as earlier suggested get a lightweight honda and look at the rest of the weight distribution on the whole bus.
Don’t forget it’s still a 16’ wheelbase, that in itself will affect handling.

Good luck