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Old 04-15-2019, 12:08 AM   #1
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What kind of body style is this? (Half dog nose fe?)

https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/6857947391.html


And also, what's the deal with the rectangular fronts on some buses? Are those also considered dog nosed?
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:15 AM   #2
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Those are oddballs, because they're pretty much in the middle of the two.

I would consider it a dognose.


There's not much of a dognose, but there is A dognose on it. That's a good 2 or 3 feet of hood.


Like a flat front, it does have a small doghouse next to the drivers seat (for the rear of the engine), but it's not that big.



(Also, you're still driving and steering it from behind the front axle - whereas most of the flat front buses, you're sitting ahead of the steering axle. While not technically a factor relating to the front, it will change the driving dynamics.)
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:39 AM   #3
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The ad is mislabeled as a 3800, this is a Generation 2 International 3600 with a Thomas Vista body.

These are a hybrid that International made on a custom frame to fit in between the transit style (flat nose) and conventional style (full dog nose hood). It was essentially a cheaper alternative for transit styles.


The first generation models had many problems, many of which were remedied in the second generation (which is what is in the ad) and some that weren't.


It's a rough ride due to the driver being right over the wheel, and the engine essentially being in the middle of the front wheels making front suspension work a bit harder, and requiring it to be a bit stiffer. However as long as you stick to highways and paved roads, mine drives fine.

Some people like this type of bus, most seem to not prefer it, and a few despise it. Honestly I drove a conventional, flat nose, and this one and the only one I didn't feel comfortable driving was the transit styles (although it's just a small learning curve). The engine placement puts some components in harder to reach areas than a bus with a full hood. You also have part of the engine in the drivers compartment, which does make noise and heat. Very manageable, but still much more than a rear engine transit.


It does boast great visibility. You can't even see the hood from the drivers seat, and the bumper sits just over 2 feet from the drivers position - a hood shorter than most cars and trucks. The forward placement of the driver also makes it a bit easier to navigate and gives a big illusion of sharper turning radius (due to drivers position over the front wheels) while having a minor improvement in turning radius over conventional (due to slightly shorter wheelbase).

EDIT: Also that mileage looks super suspicious. The dashboards in the majority of these models (3600, 3800, and so many more) are notorious for having their boards go bad and getting replaced with another dashboard where the odometer isn't accurate. I may run up 200k miles of a bus, have the dash fail, and get it replaced with one showing 50k miles. 75k miles for a bus this old is incredibly odd, especially since it's not really the type that districts keep on hand as spares.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:53 PM   #4
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What would you consider a fair price for this bus?
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:06 PM   #5
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I'm not a fan of the Vista body myself. I prefer a good and proper hood on mine. That said ...


I'd hazard to guess the mileage is between 150-200K. The dash has probably been replaced. A diagnostic on the engine computer will reveal the computer-logged miles (which I would accept as accurate, or at least "close enough").


Seller is asking about double what the bus is probably worth. It's 100% more than I would pay for it (since I'm not a fan of this type of body), but someone else may pay the asking price. It would be relatively easy to find another similar one at an auction for about half the price.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:53 PM   #6
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The posting has been deleted so somebody must have liked it.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:27 PM   #7
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IIRC it was $6500, which is far too much for a half length bus (or even a full length in good condition), and especially a vista. The whole concept that bore the Vista was the need for a cheap bus, and generally the price tags should either be at or lower than a transit or full conventional of similar quality.

To be honest I'm kind of proud to own the black sheep of the skoolie family. I love my frankenvista.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:40 PM   #8
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IIRC it was $6500, which is far too much for a half length bus (or even a full length in good condition), and especially a vista. The whole concept that bore the Vista was the need for a cheap bus, and generally the price tags should either be at or lower than a transit or full conventional of similar quality.

To be honest I'm kind of proud to own the black sheep of the skoolie family. I love my frankenvista.
l kind of like that nose - if l find one that fits my needs at the right price, l wouldn't be adverse to getting one
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:13 PM   #9
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He indeed was selling it for $6500. I felt it was a little high also.


Maybe someone can answer the second question too.


What's the deal with these square buses?


https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d...863676051.html


I don't ever see them as conversions. Is there a reason? Why do they look so different yet they are from the same years as other buses.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:38 PM   #10
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He indeed was selling it for $6500. I felt it was a little high also.


Maybe someone can answer the second question too.


What's the deal with these square buses?


https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d...863676051.html


I don't ever see them as conversions. Is there a reason? Why do they look so different yet they are from the same years as other buses.
maybe because they are a bit more rare so there as not as many to convert? - i'd convert one if it fit my needs
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:44 PM   #11
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I believe those are called workhorses. There is one that has been for sale near me. I think they have a single front end and not independent front suspension causing them to have a rough ride. seems like basically a bread truck that has been converted into a school bus more or less.

I liked the shortness of a vista and was considering them when I was hunting. Glad I ended up with a "regular" dog nose, just so I have the room to work on it when needed.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:31 PM   #12
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maybe because they are a bit more rare so there as not as many to convert? - i'd convert one if it fit my needs
Not rare. Just not very heavy duty and the chassis is sorta weak.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:45 PM   #13
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Not rare. Just not very heavy duty and the chassis is sorta weak.
In your opinion would the Vista have any issue with safety compared to conventional/transit due to the weaker chassis?


I never put two and two together regarding the weak chassis compared to other buses, and the fact the Vista had a custom designed chassis I assume they decided to cut back on in terms of durability.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:58 PM   #14
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Not rare. Just not very heavy duty and the chassis is sorta weak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geminusprime View Post
In your opinion would the Vista have any issue with safety compared to conventional/transit due to the weaker chassis?


I never put two and two together regarding the weak chassis compared to other buses, and the fact the Vista had a custom designed chassis I assume they decided to cut back on in terms of durability.

No, the Vista chassis are fine, same thing as the other IH frames.


ECCB is referring to the bread-van style buses being kinda marginal.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:14 PM   #15
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In your opinion would the Vista have any issue with safety compared to conventional/transit due to the weaker chassis?


I never put two and two together regarding the weak chassis compared to other buses, and the fact the Vista had a custom designed chassis I assume they decided to cut back on in terms of durability.
Nah, vistas aren't unsafe. Neither are the p30's.
Just low-end. They ride horribly compared to any other bus I've ridden in or driven.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:34 PM   #16
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He indeed was selling it for $6500. I felt it was a little high also.


Maybe someone can answer the second question too.


What's the deal with these square buses?


https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d...863676051.html


I don't ever see them as conversions. Is there a reason? Why do they look so different yet they are from the same years as other buses.

They are rather odd ducks. I'm not sure they were terribly popular in the first place, so there aren't all that many of them to begin with. They have some issues - they're not a full-size, heavy duty chassis. They're kinda ugly head-on. Its got a full-size body, but you still have the engine half burried in the dashboard like a cutaway van. The suspension isn't great.


(Full disclosure : I'm looking at one anyway, but that's for a different thread.)

There have been about 10 different people on here who got one, or had one. . .and none have been finished. The threads all slowly died off. Here's everything I could find about 'em.

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f27/p3...one-22569.html
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