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Old 01-04-2024, 06:45 PM   #21
Bus Nut
 
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Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 981
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 29
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the more i think about this.. I wonder how the memory of a VPM is handled.. is it a battery on board or a truly flash memory? if these are NOS VPMs from the 90s and the "flash" was actually battery backed ram.. a dead battery might be the culprit..



similar to a CMOS battery on a PC, the battery was never called upon when there was power to the unit.. the battery designed to provide 5-10 year power, a PC plugged in would allow the battery to last much longer.. some CMOS batteries were even rechargeable.. makes me wonder how these VPMs work.. if they simply need to leave one powered up on the bench machine for a day or two (at least its BAT+ terminals).. and then try to read / program it...
Yes I understand how CMOS and NVRAM works etc. The VPM has what they called 28 years ago KAM memory which is Keep Alive memory, The diagnostics states "During normal operation, the ECM automatically performs serveral tests to detect faults. The ECM performs Start-up KAM Test" This is like how on older DOS computers it will access every address space in the memory and then show the total RAM value amount and that it's in good shape. We'd get an active 224 + 615 code if it was failing on this, and it's not present. This is also on the ECM and unrelated to the VPM. All codes indicate the ECM is booting fine, and the IDM as well, but gets 223 which is cannot communicate with VPM, data lines confirmed by me and by Navistar to be in good shape and multimeter tested to be good.

As for the VPM memory I'll look at the diagnostics sheet tonight to see if there's any clue as to what type of memory it holds, and if there is a battery keeping values alive. I want to say it's a ROM though and doesn't require a battery. That thing is NOT easily accessible, and navistar didn't want people getting to the VPM, and they'd be changing batteries in it after 5 years if they used one.

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Old 01-04-2024, 08:14 PM   #22
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,377
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown, integral. (With 2kW of tiltable solar)
Chassis: Crown Supercoach II (rear engine)
Engine: Detroit 6V92TAC, DDEC 2, Jake brake, Allison HT740
Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
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Originally Posted by incubus View Post
Answer to this,hybrid, worked since before WW2 in train engines.
Diesel-electric locomotives are NOT hybrids! Their main generator/alternator produces power for their traction motors; the engine itself does not, never has*, and never will power the wheels directly, but it merely acts as an on-board power station for the traction motors. Think of a diesel-electric loco as an electric loco that carries its own power station with it.

(* The ill-fated Fell diesel-mechanical locomotive in the 1940s used four engines that were mechanically supercharged to produce constant torque, and these four engines drove through a very complex four-speed mechanical transmission. It didn't work too well...)

John
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Old 01-05-2024, 12:13 PM   #23
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Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Union Bridge Maryland
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Year: 2002
John perhaps being tired I did not word it right. I never meant that the diesel generator on a locomotive directly powered the wheels. I was thinking in the fact that one going downhill they reverse so that it's generating power used for dynamic braking. Hybrid cars were derived from the locomotives. It took them a while to get them down to size and they realize they had to have battery storage because unlike the locomotive which is never shut down the cars are. And I've driven many direct drive diesel locomotives. Double clutch with a string of Passenger cars is a blast. Trying to downshift down a grade. My overall point was the electric buses are not working. We took one out to Washington County and it could not do the Hills. I feel that we are not ready for Pure electric vehicles
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Old 01-05-2024, 01:24 PM   #24
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
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Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
Hybrid

So. My 1954 is sitting on 2010 f450 chassis. Cummins 5.9 with 6 speed manual and mechanical injection to the rear axle.

I think, adding a driven front axle assembly, drive shaft, and Tesla rear motor, the 250 hp or more… with a driveshaft adapter. Electronics taking signal from pedal connected throttle position sensor. In low grip conditions- snow, ice, wet up hill, mud, wet grass, loose gravel/dirt. The system could operate front wheel drive or all wheel drive. Use the Tesla battery pack like a smooth underbody tray. My bus is pretty short. 122” wheel base. In a longer bus, you might very well be able to use two full Tesla battery packs.

In town stop and go might be workable to use battery only. Or like when entering California. Or if engine/rear driveline is broken, a way to move with front drive only. If enough Solar or enough generator and solar…. The distance or speed could be surprising. HILLS…. An extra 250 hp to go up those big long 7% grades…

I have seen enough dual engine cars with one engine a manual, and the other an automatic transmission, to think that diesel power rear axle and electric power front axle is not rocket surgery. There are enough people out there doing electric conversions to cars, that finding the correct mix of hardware and software, is very much doable.


Hills, can use front electric drive as a retarder, save brakes and recharge battery bank.
William
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Old 01-05-2024, 01:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incubus View Post
John perhaps being tired I did not word it right. I never meant that the diesel generator on a locomotive directly powered the wheels. I was thinking in the fact that one going downhill they reverse so that it's generating power used for dynamic braking. Hybrid cars were derived from the locomotives. It took them a while to get them down to size and they realize they had to have battery storage because unlike the locomotive which is never shut down the cars are. And I've driven many direct drive diesel locomotives. Double clutch with a string of Passenger cars is a blast. Trying to downshift down a grade. My overall point was the electric buses are not working. We took one out to Washington County and it could not do the Hills. I feel that we are not ready for Pure electric vehicles

electric busses are nothing new.. nor are electric trains... pure electric busses have been around for decades in the form of trolleys.. grid powered yes but the motors had the torque and gearing to get the bus where it needed to go..



batteries and recharging them are the obvious challenges to overcome.. if someone built an electric bus that simply doesnt have the gonads to get to the top of a hill (not a dead battery but just not enough power).. then thats an issue wit hthat manufacturer who ignored decades of engineering on the topic.. now if those said battery electric busses simply had dead batteries midway through their routes.. then yeah thats the current limitation in EV tech right now.. weight to power ratio and needing to overcome it to be efficient.. lithium batteries did it for the hybrid industry.. when PRIUS still used metal hydride batteries its MPG overall esp highway wasnt all that impressive..



regen braking and making the most of it is one of the big reasons hybrid cars get good MPG... learning howe to drive regen brakes is an art and those that do learn to master them are the only ones getting 55 MPG out of a hybrid.. those that metal the go pedal and then board the brake at the next stoplight are not the ones getting good use out of a hybrid..



some of the same is true getting range out of an EV..
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Old 01-05-2024, 02:50 PM   #26
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Union Bridge Maryland
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Year: 2002
Don't confuse horsepower with torque. Horsepower gets you down the road torque gets you over the mountain. Take the weight of the Tesla and ratio the weight of the bus to the horsepower of the Tesla and see what you get. Buses and heavy vehicles depend on torque
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Old 04-01-2024, 07:25 PM   #27
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Join Date: Nov 2023
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Solar Diesel Hybrid Bus

Me and my partner purchased an electric bus at govt. auction and we are currently in the demo process. we have removed the seats and we have removed the walls and ceiling and insulation and are currently ripping up the floor.

The bus is a 2018 Lion Electric with 5k miles

it has 70 miles range on an 80kwh battery. Don't know the chemistry.

it has 300+ horsepower and LOADS of torque (like any electric motor).

we plan on strapping a 10kw+ generator (Kubota Lowboy ii or similar) on it and ~10kw solar (10-500w on the roof and 10 on the wall)

we are planning on using a hybrid solar charge controller that accepts AC input from a generator.

we will use a 20kw j1772 car charger and that will give us a minimum charge time of about 5 hours. unfortunately, it doesn't have DC fast charge. 70 miles per 5 hours will be our max speed or 14 miles an hour.

if we can get 10 hours of full sun we can drive 70 miles for free but we want the diesel generator for backup.

ask me anything.
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