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I Know You Rider 09-03-2016 12:24 PM

I really need some help with the wiring here!!!
 
Hello everyone,

I am having a tremendous amount of trouble figuring out how to bypass the emergency door killswitches. I cant start the bus and we need to move it in the next 10 days. I have read a ton of information about these switches and how to bypass them however I just cant seem to grasp it. I had my dad take a look at it. He can usually figure out just about anything like this. We poked around with meters and traced out a bunch of wires and I still cant seem to get the thing to start. I have seen 2 threads on here describing how to jump the switches out but, none are the same as mine. I am posting a picture of my panel and I am hoping that some one can say " Thats easy just put the duhicky in the thing'a'mabob and your done"

The door switches have 1 white/pink wire going in and then a switch. after the switch is a ground. When the door is closed and locked the switch is open (not grounded).

In the picture:

1: Source of power going to a relay buzzer thing
2: Relay Buzzer thing. It has 2 wires on one side
(black) one is power in, the other goes to the door switch buzzers to supply power.
There are also 3 white/pink wires that go to the door switches on the other half of the relay buzzer thing. (switches have only one white/pink wire and a black that goes to ground when the door is open)
3: The black hot wire from the original power source (1) makes its way back from the buzzers returning the the panel an this point.
4: The hot black wire that originated at (1) then re-enters at (3) leads to a terminal here to supply power to a few other wires. One of those wires goes to a solenoid (5)
5: Solenoid that supplies power to the starter ( I assume, I did not trace the wires out yet but I can tomorrow)


Thank you,

https://www.skoolie.net/attachments/p...e6fe25faf7.jpg

somewhereinusa 09-03-2016 02:51 PM

Just some quick observations. Isn't that the wiring diagram on the inside of the door?

You could just wire it the way you want. With a test light and the help of a friend, find the wire that gets hot when you turn the ignition to start. It probably comes through the neutral safety switch. Make sure power goes to the ECU when you turn the key to the ON position. I doubt if that relay 5 is the starter relay although it may have something to do with the interlock. It's really quite simple to bypass all of those things. Once you find the wire that comes from IGNITION start hook it to wire that goes to starter solenoid through the neutral switch.

Another thought if that relay 5 is in the start circuit, you could probably energize it with the start wire from the ignition switch, providing the neutral switch is between it and the starter solenoid.

If you can post a really good picture of that wiring diagram perhaps we can read it. It would really be easier with the diagram

Dick

I Know You Rider 09-03-2016 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somewhereinusa (Post 161358)
Just some quick observations. Isn't that the wiring diagram on the inside of the door?

You could just wire it the way you want. With a test light and the help of a friend, find the wire that gets hot when you turn the ignition to start. It probably comes through the neutral safety switch. Make sure power goes to the ECU when you turn the key to the ON position. I doubt if that relay 5 is the starter relay although it may have something to do with the interlock. It's really quite simple to bypass all of those things. Once you find the wire that comes from IGNITION start hook it to wire that goes to starter solenoid through the neutral switch.

Another thought if that relay 5 is in the start circuit, you could probably energize it with the start wire from the ignition switch, providing the neutral switch is between it and the starter solenoid.

If you can post a really good picture of that wiring diagram perhaps we can read it. It would really be easier with the diagram

Dick

Thanks for the advice!

Ill get a picture of the diagram up tomorrow. The diagram has not proven to be very helpfull because the font is too small to read. Also this bus has had some half-measure wiring repairs that have left it a mess.

Somthing seams weird with selonoid (5) when the key is in the accessory position three is power on both ends of the selonoid. However when i turn the key to start it the voltage drops to 0. I think it has somthing to do with the interlock.

Id like to just wire it up just like any other start (on my car there are 3 wires pos neg and ground) but there are 10 wires that go to the starter that i havent traced out yet. I suppose it could be somthing to do with the interlock once i trace them ill know. I would have no touble wiring the starter circuit but i need to know what else is getting power when the key is in the start position(why are there 7 extra wires at the starter?). Ive seen videos on here that show you how to jump out the emergency switches which looks a whole lot easier then tracing out all of these wires. I have tomorrow off so i will be spending the day working on this.

Wish me luck,

somewhereinusa 09-03-2016 05:04 PM

Quote:

why are there 7 extra wires at the starter
If they are all going to the large terminal, they are just using that as a power (Bat+) tap to supply battery voltage.

It's probably wired something like this, may not have the small relay.
https://www.samarins.com/glossary/img...ing_system.gif

I think I'd turn the key on, and jump the solenoid at the starter to see if it starts. (Jump small terminal on solenoid to large terminal on solenoid.)

Piersg 09-03-2016 05:34 PM

This probably won't be much help, but I was having trouble with all my buzzers, killswitches and assorted crap, so I ended up tracing all the school wiring back to the panel and removing it. I started with this:

https://www.pdgnetworks.com/images/bu...nel_before.jpg

I would trace back a wire, remove it, then go start the bus, that way I could always go back and fix any issues. After removing about 100 lbs of wire I ended up with this:

https://www.pdgnetworks.com/images/bus/fusepanel.jpg

As a bonus I also got rid of the vampire battery drain that was killing the batteries!

gobygoby 09-03-2016 10:20 PM

When I saw the first photo of your fuse box, I thought for a second that it came from my bus, which looks EXCATLY like that. I also have a vampire drain on my bus, which I am now guessing is coming from that yellow box in the first photo. Thanks for the post it inspired me to finally tackle the same problem :)

I Know You Rider 09-04-2016 10:18 AM

Here is a picture of the diagram. Im working on it today. I hope to figure it out soon! Ill keep you posted.

https://rs1378.pbsrc.com/albums/ah109...=480&fit=clip"

I Know You Rider 09-04-2016 06:43 PM

Welp,

Another 6 hour day at the bus with no headway. I feel like a big dummy. I guess im kotbso good at bus wiring. I was really hoping just to jump the door switches out at the panel somewhere. On another thread i read about it. I just dont quite understamd how they work in guess. When then door is open the hot wire gets grounded (i think) so if i eliminate the switches it should start. Where is the flaw in my logic? I am so confused and defeated. I spent 6 hours with a meter in my hand and still am no closer to starting the bus.

I jumped the starter out. The starter moter spun but it didnt engage the starter to crank it over.

I feel so clueless its frustrating.

Dragonpop 09-04-2016 07:53 PM

Our bus had similar door switches so we just unplugged the wire from
the switch and insulated the wire end so it couldn't ground and no more
problems with starting and running and no buzzers. One hint on bus
wiring if you look close at the wire you will see a number on the wire and
that corresponds with the numbers on the diagram and should be the
same circuit in the front or back of the bus. A pink wire with a trace number
27 will be the same in the front of the bus as the same color and trace in
the rear of the bus.

Brad_SwiftFur 09-04-2016 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Know You Rider (Post 161486)
Welp,
. . .
I jumped the starter out. The starter moter spun but it didnt engage the starter to crank it over.

I feel so clueless its frustrating.

Wait. This tells me something right here. Are you saying the starter is spinning, but not engaging to turn over the engine? If so, you're chasing the wrong problem. This is not the sign of an electrical problem, it's the sign of a starter problem. This can happen to starters with age, wear, and corrosion.

Carytowncat 09-04-2016 10:06 PM

Hi,

Hang in there, the culprit will reveal itself in time.

Also i supect you did the door switch wiring fine but those are not the problem, or at least not the only problem. I supect there is some other problem which is making it not start (like mentioned above possibly starter solenoid, etc)

Good luck!

Ps. I often ask the machines what they need, what can i do to help, and maY i know what the problem is. In time they answer. Machines are divine. :)

sdwarf36 09-05-2016 07:42 AM

Try it in neutral rather than park?

somewhereinusa 09-05-2016 07:55 AM

When you jumped the starter, did you jump from little terminal to large terminal coming from battery, or large to large? Large to large will only spin starter, won't engage bendix. You should jump little to large.

I Know You Rider 09-07-2016 10:40 AM

Still no luck! I have a mechanoc here and he cant seem to figure it out either. The starter works we jumped it iut and it turns over fine. Howeve i cant seem to get it to start still. I guess im really confused as to what i need to do to get the bus to think the doors are closed. I could rewire the start circuit but im not to exited about that. Id really like to complete the curcuit that will show the doors as closed. Any ideas how to do that would be great. Please explain it to me in simple turns as I am not an experienced mechanic.

Thank you,

SDR76 09-07-2016 05:08 PM

I cut mine off.
 
I just cut the wires on mine, and it all still worked. I bet that's throwing salt in your wounds :popcorn:.... I didn't read the entire post, I'm not great at electrical, but i get by. My advice to you and everyone working on a 12V system, get a PowerProbe. Best money ever spent. You can find problems in a hurry. Ground out hot circuits, put power to others, they do amazing things. A bit pricey, but what is your time and frustration worth?:doh:

Motobus 09-07-2016 07:59 PM

I have a 97 international 466e Thomas. I took out the rear door.

The buzzer/safety switch on the rear door of my bus had a blue wire that was for the buzzer and a yellow wire that was the kill. The apposing side of the switch for each wire was a ground. The side of the switch for the yellow kill wire only showed continuity when the door was closed, allowing it to ground. Grounding the yellow wire after the door was removed allowed the bus to start.

There are two pink wires on the floor near the driver's left foot. I think they were each plugged into an orange wire. I unhooked the two and plugged them together to bypass the safety kill switch.

Hope this helps somebody.

superdave 09-07-2016 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motobus (Post 161842)
I have a 97 international 466e Thomas. I took out the rear door.

The buzzer/safety switch on the rear door of my bus had a blue wire that was for the buzzer and a yellow wire that was the kill. The apposing side of the switch for each wire was a ground. The side of the switch for the yellow kill wire only showed continuity when the door was closed, allowing it to ground. Grounding the yellow wire after the door was removed allowed the bus to start.

There are two pink wires on the floor near the driver's left foot. I think they were each plugged into an orange wire. I unhooked the two and plugged them together to bypass the safety kill switch.

Hope this helps somebody.

my 96 was just like this, one wire had to be grounded and the other couldn't be. i went wire to wire and removed every wire going to the back i didn't need for lights. that left me with 2 wires for the safety system that i tracted to the main bus bar. it took some time but i got it. good luck

cadillackid 09-08-2016 08:29 AM

if the engine is spinning over but not starting perhaps you need to use the hand pump and re-prime the fuel system... it will taske a lot of starter spin to re-prime it on its own if its lost its pressure..

when you pump the hand pump it should press down hard like you are tryiong to push liquid through a pipe.. if it pushes up and down easily it means you sre pumping asir and not fuel.. keep pumping it till you feel resistance then try to start the bus..

the hand primer is usually on the injector pump near the left side of the engine on a DT..

-Christopher

I Know You Rider 09-08-2016 07:05 PM

The starter doesnt do anything when i turn the key. Im working on getting a body wiring diagram from ic then i surely will be able to figure it out.

I Know You Rider 09-12-2016 06:43 PM

Update. I wired a momentary switch to the starter. Then put the key in the on position. The starter cranks the engine over but it doesnt start. I assume its not getting fuel. Our last day in our apartment is this thursday then we will be driving 6 hours away. If we dont get the bus going we will have no where to sleep. Ill figure this out in the next 3 days. I suppose the ecm need power to turn on the fuel. I just need to get it running to make the move then I will have plenty of time to work on it. Any thoughts? What else does this interlock disable? I havent tested the ecm yet so it may have power. Would the interlock kill the power to the ecm too?

Any suggestion will be appreciated. Thank you


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