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-   -   Woodfiber insulation (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/woodfiber-insulation-20312.html)

adic27 11-30-2017 06:02 AM

Woodfiber insulation
 
Anyone use it on their conversion? A guy on a youtube vid doing a conversion and he mentioned that it was better than the typical insulation in many ways including 100% wood and being able to resist fire up to 28 times longer. Ive never heard of this kind of insulation. How about you guys?

EastCoastCB 11-30-2017 06:25 AM

Well, I'd avoid using anything organic. That stuff sounds like its very delicate, and its made of wood fibers, wax, glue, and latex.
Its really hard to beat closed cell foam for this job.

Tango 11-30-2017 10:11 AM

What ECCB said. Closed cell. You do NOT want anything that can trap or wick moisture.

adic27 12-02-2017 03:52 AM

Loud and clear. Thanks guys

Tedd 12-02-2017 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango (Post 236220)
You do NOT want anything that can trap or wick moisture.

At least do your own homework first.

Due to this thread, I got curious about using wood fiber insulation. I mean ... after all, they pack it into walls of houses ... which would be TERRIBLE if it held moisture and caused the house to rot. I'm sure that houses have just as many places that will rot as a school bus ... maybe more.

anyoldways, I did a search before immediately dismissing this product out-of-hand. For the record, I could not find any site that warned against its use because of a moisture problem, as a matter of fact, I could find NO WARNING for moisture against it's use. As a matter of fact, it looks as though the manufacturers did a lot of work with this stuff to keep it from wicking and holding moisture.

If anyone did some research and found real problems with the stuff, I would be glad to see it.

I DID find, however, that this insulation is a lot more expensive than other types of insulation, and cost is also a valid concern. On the cost ... it's a no-go for me.

Woodfibre insulation just might work in a bus. I would try to find somebody who has worked with it, and has had success ... or failure ... and then make my decision. And let the arguing begin.

Twigg 12-02-2017 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 236689)
At least do your own homework first.

Due to this thread, I got curious about using wood fiber insulation. I mean ... after all, they pack it into walls of houses ... which would be TERRIBLE if it held moisture and caused the house to rot. I'm sure that houses have just as many places that will rot as a school bus ... maybe more.

anyoldways, I did a search before immediately dismissing this product out-of-hand. For the record, I could not find any site that warned against its use because of a moisture problem, as a matter of fact, I could find NO WARNING for moisture against it's use. As a matter of fact, it looks as though the manufacturers did a lot of work with this stuff to keep it from wicking and holding moisture.

If anyone did some research and found real problems with the stuff, I would be glad to see it.

I DID find, however, that this insulation is a lot more expensive than other types of insulation, and cost is also a valid concern. On the cost ... it's a no-go for me.

Woodfibre insulation just might work in a bus. I would try to find somebody who has worked with it, and has had success ... or failure ... and then make my decision. And let the arguing begin.

There are several methods of insulating a bus, or RV, that are accepted and that work.

For anything new to be given serious consideration it has to offer a significant advantage, or remove one of the traditional problems.

If it doesn't do that then you are simply stepping into the unknown based on little more than the manufacturer's claims.

Robin97396 12-02-2017 02:06 PM

Claims are that wood fibre insulation is a twenty year old technology in Europe. It's made from waste wood products from the timber industry as well as from manufacturing waste. It does not make sense for this product to be so expensive. Particle board isn't that expensive.

I can't find any complaints about this product at all, which to me means complaints are either being stiffled or this is simply the most wonderful product ever. This is a completely compostable product by their claims, which is enough to scare me away.

Comparing buses and stick built homes is like comparing apples and pineapples. Buses condensate on the inside because of the metal skin. Any insulation that allows the humidity to reach the outer skin will allow condensation, which is why so many of us have ponied up for spray foam. Houses don't condensate inside the walls.

I'd bet on this insulation showing signs of degradation after the first year in a bus, specifically due to moisture issues. Anybody want to pony up for the wood fibre insulation, then take it out next spring to check?

EastCoastCB 12-02-2017 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 236689)
At least do your own homework first.

Due to this thread, I got curious about using wood fiber insulation. I mean ... after all, they pack it into walls of houses ... which would be TERRIBLE if it held moisture and caused the house to rot. I'm sure that houses have just as many places that will rot as a school bus ... maybe more.

anyoldways, I did a search before immediately dismissing this product out-of-hand. For the record, I could not find any site that warned against its use because of a moisture problem, as a matter of fact, I could find NO WARNING for moisture against it's use. As a matter of fact, it looks as though the manufacturers did a lot of work with this stuff to keep it from wicking and holding moisture.

If anyone did some research and found real problems with the stuff, I would be glad to see it.

I DID find, however, that this insulation is a lot more expensive than other types of insulation, and cost is also a valid concern. On the cost ... it's a no-go for me.

Woodfibre insulation just might work in a bus. I would try to find somebody who has worked with it, and has had success ... or failure ... and then make my decision. And let the arguing begin.

Once the wax and stuff breaks down you basically have soggy wood mess in the walls.
Moisture isn't the same concern in a house as it is in a steel can.

Tedd 12-02-2017 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 236714)
Once the wax and stuff breaks down you basically have soggy wood mess in the walls.
Moisture isn't the same concern in a house as it is in a steel can.

That's pretty good to know. Can I ask how much research you've done? Pictures?

EastCoastCB 12-02-2017 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 236720)
That's pretty good to know. Can I ask how much research you've done? Pictures?

Simple logic, man. :rolleyes:

Twigg 12-02-2017 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 236724)
Simple logic, man. :rolleyes:

I think Tedd is going to stick to his point, whatever others say.

If it's made of cellulose, and kept in a tin, eventually something is going to eat it.

EastCoastCB 12-02-2017 04:23 PM

Its all good. I like Tedd, he's a good dude.

Twigg 12-02-2017 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 236726)
Its all good. I like Tedd, he's a good dude.

I'm sure. I wasn't criticizing.

Tedd 12-02-2017 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twigg (Post 236725)
I think Tedd is going to stick to his point, whatever others say.

... and just what is my point?

Could my point be that maybe wood fiber insulation (or any other new idea for that matter) is something to look at and worth more than a knee-jerk dismissal without any facts, without any research not even a quick search on the internet?

Naahhh ... that couldn't be it.

I raced sports cars for about 12 years a long time ago. Built my own cars. I wish I had a nickle for ever time I heard a garage "expert" dismiss something new and untried ... installing a panhard rod on my MGB for example, only to beat the crap outta that that guy on the track the next time we raced.

Yeah ... it's a sore point with me.

I guess around here I'll just avoid threads having to do with insulation.

Twigg 12-02-2017 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 236731)
... and just what is my point?

Could my point be that maybe wood fiber insulation (or any other new idea for that matter) is something to look at and worth more than a knee-jerk dismissal without any facts, without any research not even a quick search on the internet?

Naahhh ... that couldn't be it.

Then go for it. Do your bus and let us know in a few years. The problem here is that you have been equally dismissive of very reasonable concerns raised.

I'm done with this now.

Tedd 12-02-2017 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 236726)
Its all good. I like Tedd, he's a good dude.

Back attcha!

Tedd 12-02-2017 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twigg (Post 236732)

I'm done with this now.

OK with me.

Anybody remember the name of that other insulation expert ... the one that got banned? He had the most annoying habit of injecting himself into EVERY thread and objecting to everything anybody was doing. Every Thread.

It was a fine day indeed when he was sounding off about bus grounding and Mike Sokol appeared from nowhere and him in his place.

What the heck was that guys name??? He really made this web forum a very nasty place.

ECCB ... you remember that guy ... what was his name?

Robin97396 12-02-2017 06:05 PM

I'm jealous of Tedd's hair. I don't know him well yet, but I know he's a patient man.

Actually I did an internet search because I didn't know specifically about this product. I do have intimate knowledge about trees and wood fibre as that is common industrial knowledge here in Oregon. I'm not against new technology either, but if a product is more expensive doing the same job as a proven product people tend to go with the familiar.

Wood fibre degrades over time, and consider that's if it doesn't repeatedly get wet. It's waxed and painted in an apparent effort to keep oxygen away from the fibre. It costs more and it's an unproven product. I would like to know if it actually lasts, but considering it's supposed to be a 20 year old technology from Europe there should be more information available online but there's not. Mostly there's just product information.

What's bothering me is the lack of information available on this 20 year old product line. I remain neutral until about 20 years from now when I'll make my decision.

EastCoastCB 12-02-2017 06:15 PM

One insulation that's good for interior walls is called Roxul. Good stuff.

Robin97396 12-02-2017 06:49 PM

I'm sure not an insulation expert. It just seems logical that if we're experiencing condensation with the OEM rockwool insulation, that another fiberous material would perform similarly by not stopping air and humidity from circulating allowing condensation. Also most of us are aware of the buildup of dust deposits, within the rockwool insulation, that can and do mold with the right amount of moisture.

Bus insulation needs to be something that eliminates air and humidity from contacting the interior metal skin surfaces of the bus. I don't believe another fiberous material would work any better than OEM insulation at stopping humidity from contacting the interior skin surfaces.

I had condensation that dripped through my perforated ceiling panels the first winter.


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