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-   -   Jacuzzi Bus IV (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f32/jacuzzi-bus-iv-2437.html)

lapeer20m 11-23-2007 03:40 PM

Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Thought I'd go ahead and start a new thread and post it in the correct location.

Now all i need to do is start the conversion then i'll have something to post.

https://lh4.google.com/imloud2/RvyqN8...JPG?imgmax=640

FIXED!

pete c 11-24-2007 05:45 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
https://lh4.google.com/imloud2/RvyqN8...PG?imgmax=640]

is this any better?

pete c 11-24-2007 05:46 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
guess not.

who broke the html thingy?

Roasting8 11-24-2007 08:41 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Hell, let me try:

https://lh4.google.com/imloud2/RvyqN8...JPG?imgmax=640

Roasting8 11-24-2007 08:42 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Woo Hoo, I think it worked :D

Roasting8 11-24-2007 10:56 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
BTW, That's a real nice bus. I think it'll look fantastic.

KC10Chief 11-24-2007 12:54 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
What happened to the fully articulated bus? :D

behappystupi 11-24-2007 02:59 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Are you going with the Black Plague theme? Black with flames?

lapeer20m 11-25-2007 09:22 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
not gonna do the black plague theme. i like the look, but don't think that black with flames is the look i'm going for here. She's still gonna be black, but painted more like an RV with silver/grey trim.

with the exception of the jacuzzi, i think the ceiling was the best part of my last bus. In this bus, i'm gonna have the ceiling be electric blue with flames at night just like the old one....but white in the day time. Wildfire fx, the company that sells the UV paint i use, offer paint that is white in regular light and brilliant electric blue under blacklight.

i want to create 2 separate enviroments inside the bus. Real fancy, rich looking interior in regular light, and crazy partybus at nite when the uv lights come one.

as for the 60 footer.....i'm not opposed to doing one, but this bus just came along and i decided i had to have it. If i lost the auction on the current bus (i wish i would have lost) then i was going to go pick up the 60 footer last week.

Exciting news! I just found an indoor heated/insulated warehouse to use as a workshop for $200/month. it's about 20 minutes from the house wich is abit of a drag, but the price is right! Photos to come!

wmah 11-25-2007 09:46 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lapeer20m
Exciting news! I just found an indoor heated/insulated warehouse to use as a workshop for $200/month.


Do you have to pay the heating bill along side the $200 a month? If not that could cost another $200 a month.

Steve 11-26-2007 09:52 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
So how fast does that thing go, was it a city bus?

lapeer20m 11-26-2007 12:22 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
he claimes it was a highway bus owned by the city of gainsville florida. I'm pretty sure it was a city bus. It'll cruise about 60 on flat ground. I was never able to get the bus over 65 even going downhill with the pedal to the floor. There are some pretty steep hills between arizona and michigan.

I really like the bus, and 60 mph is acceptable, I'm just disappointed because i was expecting 70 or 80. A bus with a top end of 80 should cruise real nice without having to work at 60 mph.

I"m also surprised how wimpy that 6v71 is. 426 cubic inches, a blower plus turbo, and twice as many power strokes as a four stroke engine. I would have thought that it would be a great match for a 20K pound bus. It's about as anemic as my old 6.6 litre Brazilian. It starts great, blows very little smoke, runs like a top. The motor appears to be in excellent shape. She leaks oil, but i think that's par for the course for a DD. Most of the oil appears to leak out of a pair of hoses under the motor. About 1 gallon every 1K miles. Not like that dt360 in the last bus that didn't use/leak barely a drop of oil.

It sounds really cool! especially when taking off from a stop. I should make a recording of that. The air ride is really nice too, but leaks like a sieve. (sp?) Not a big deal though, it's just plumbing. I'll get working on that as soon as i park the bus indoors out of the snow. It has air everything which is a little bizarre: throttle, engine shutoff, windshield wipers, doors, seat, brakes, suspension and who knows what else.

The body doesn't have a speck of rust. Only rust i've found is on the platform where the a/c unit used to live above the engine.

pete c 11-26-2007 06:42 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
I suspect that a gear change is out of the question? Sound more like a lack of gears than lack of balls. Is that thing governed/ Can ti be turned up if so? Or would that grenade the motor?

lapeer20m 11-26-2007 08:56 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
it doesn't have a tach, so i dont' really know how fast she's turning....but with double the exhaust strokes of a regular engine she sounds really fast! As a matter of fact, my buddy said to me "she's idling kind of fast, isn't she?" I let him look at the crank while she's idling and you can just about count the rev's. I'm not gonna bother turning it up, i have no plans for any more cross country traveling in this bus. I'm not gonna swap gears either....it has a 4.56 rear which is pretty conservative in the bus world.

with all the numbers plugged into the equation she is turning about 2,300 rpm, which is pretty close to redline for that motor.

i need to quit talking about this bus and start working on it if we're gonna meet our deadline of Jan 31.

the_experience03 11-26-2007 09:06 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Straight pipes and an mp3 please. Thanks. :o

behappystupi 11-27-2007 04:20 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
So what bus are you takign to burningman next year? a 60 footer?

pete c 11-27-2007 06:59 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
sssshhhhh!!!!

mention of driving that thing to burning man would cause oil futures to soar. we're paying enough already. how many gallons to the mile does that beast get, anyway?

lapeer20m 11-27-2007 10:09 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
i plan to find a tc2000 or other suitable cross country vehicle for next years burn. Something that has teh ability to get 10 mpg or be able to drive 75 mph.

lapeer20m 11-27-2007 10:56 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
i bought some new bus toys today. An alternator and batteries.....

The a/c unit takes 13 amps @ 110 volts

I have a 3KW military inverter which runs on 24 volts....only problem is that my bus is 12 volts.

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2113/...b44d8a.jpg?v=0

The more i thought about it, the more i thought about how great a 24 volt inverter is. Why you may ask would this be preferable to the far more common 12 volt appliances?? Here's why.....3KW @ 24 volts is only 125 amps. compare that to 250 amps @ 12 volts.

The a/c should use under 1.5kw, and the fancy new 24 volt 165 amp alternator i bought today produces about 4KW.

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2406/...49a0fe.jpg?v=0

My house system will be completely isolated from the bus system. I also bought a pair of cute not so little 4D batteries for the house system.

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2415/...621755.jpg?v=0

All i need to do now is create a mounting bracket and run the 00 welding cable from the alternator to the batteries then to the inverter.

pete c 11-28-2007 06:30 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
So you are gonna have two alternators? How much do they get for that 24 volt one? It should power a 15k btu A/C without even working hard. BTW, you could do away with the 12 volt alt if the batteries are 12 volt wired in series. You could use one of the batteries for the chassis electrical.

lapeer20m 11-28-2007 08:49 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
yes, the bus will have 2 alternators. I've wanted to do that on a bus for a while now, just never spent the money. I repaired/replaced the alternator on the last bus at least 3 times. I like the idea of having some redundancy. It's a lot cheaper if you can plan to change the alternator rather than being broke down along side the road, then you're at the mercy of the repair guy.

I have always been kind of opposed to running an ac unit off of an alternator....but that's before the 24 volt idea came along.

The bus already has a newer pair of 8D starting batteries that run off the stock 12 volt alternator.

the new 24 volt 165 amp alternator was $165, but that may have been a special price just for me.....alternator guy seems to appreciate my projects.

pete c 11-28-2007 12:34 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
i hear you about redundancy. A backup alternator woulda been nice when mine died in the middle of no where last summer in new mexico. then the cheap pos that i had installed in dumas, tx died the next day in kansas. don't buy rebuilt alts from oreilly's.

phillbus914 11-28-2007 12:36 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Man that inverter is pretty cool, where'd you steal that from?

swinada 11-28-2007 01:55 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
now I have to ask: How easy is it to install a second alternator? How do you go about it, lets say on a 8.3lt cummins rear engine. :)

KC10Chief 11-28-2007 02:03 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
So you're going to run a roof AC off the alternator? I'm curious how that is going to turn out. I will definitely need to run my roof A/C while going down the road here in Oklahoma in the summer in a black bus.

Anyways, my next bus will be a TC2000 with the 5.9L engine. I think I'd prefer the 5.9 over the DT466 just for the fuel economy! Both seem to be pretty reliable from what I've read. The DT466 might make more power, but I don't think it gets very good economy.

the_experience03 11-28-2007 04:14 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swinada
now I have to ask: How easy is it to install a second alternator? How do you go about it, lets say on a 8.3lt cummins rear engine. :)

1. Find suitable spot so that the v-belts line up with existing v-belts.
2. Bend, cut, and weld some steel to make a bracket
3. Mount up alternator and run wiring
4. Buy longer v-belts

Yeah...sounds simple, right? :lol: It really isn't that bad to mount a new or different accessory where it doesn't belong. At the same time I gladly paid $30 for a premade bracket to mount a Toyota power steering pump on a 350 Chevy.

lapeer20m 11-28-2007 08:48 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
yup, it should be that easy to install the 2nd alternator. It's a "1 wire alternator" so the only thing you need to hook up is the power wire. Some alternators require more wires.

The DD in this bus has 2 or 3 spare pulleys running off of the crank.

I think it would be difficult to reliably run an a/c unit with a 12 volt alternator. I don't know the difficulty in finding 24 volt inverters....unless you have a friend named phill who seems to be able to find anything and everything.

Got all moved into the new "shop" today. It's actually a warehouse that some guy has for his business. He just agreed to have me move in and take up space for a price. Heat.....heat comes from giant indoor propane burners, i'm not sure why he doesn't use the furnace that's in the building. We put a smaller propane burning contraption in the bus to save on propane today....but he said he'll buy all the propane, he wants to keep his paint and other supplies above freezing. The place isn't really insulated either....but i'm really excited to have an indoor heated place to work on the bus.

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2313/...d98160.jpg?v=0

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2406/...73a199.jpg?v=0

The new jacuzzi is significantly smaller than in previous buses but will work really well with the floorplan we hammered out today.

The jacuzzi is gonna be nearly mid-ship.

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/...370f99.jpg?v=0

you can see the jacuzzi inside the door here...

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2180/...90203c.jpg?v=0

Gonna have a pair of seats (they're gonna be recovered with thick foam padding, and fuzzy fabric) on either side in front of the jacuzzi

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2376/...f93d3f.jpg?v=0

Behind the jacuzzi in the back of the bus is going to be a glass floor....well, i gotta ask the guy at the glass shop what is the better material for walking on: glass, plexi, or lexan. I want it frosted and we'll put cool led's under it. Around the glass floor is gonna be a giant custom built couch that wrap's around on three sides with a "fire pole" in the middle. I'll draw out a floor plan eventually and try to post.

This is our plan today....it might change tomorrow lol

DizzyIzzy 11-28-2007 10:35 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
You create some mad ideas. I love watching them turn out.

Steve 11-29-2007 08:55 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
How did you get the Jacuzzi in this time? Did it fit through the side door?

lapeer20m 11-29-2007 12:30 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve
How did you get the Jacuzzi in this time? Did it fit through the side door?

MAGIC!

No, this jacuzzi fit through the side door....which is a huge bonus!

Waterproof/resistant seats are practical, but they don't' look cool.

swinada 11-29-2007 01:28 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
well we wanna see that firepole in action :)
This one should gross you at least 25G's on e-bay once its done. :) just make sure you got the right pictures in the listing.

lapeer20m 11-29-2007 03:36 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
here is the tentative floorplan. Seems simple enough.

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2196/...4f4bd294_o.jpg

Would also like to add remote keyless doors open/close, also going to add remote kneeling/raising, big stereo, crazy uv lights ect ect. She should be pretty pimped out when she's finished.

Xtevan 11-29-2007 05:17 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Wow, you are making great progress, seems like I was just watching that bus on Ebay last week.

I have a lead on a pair of installed but un-used Dou-them Rooftop ACs and was pondering how I would power them on the road. The 12 volt conversion route seems pretty sketchy, Let us know how the 24 volt set up works when you get it going. AC here in Austin is not an option in the summer.

Has anyone seen these at Harbor Frieght
10,000 WATTS PEAK/7200 WATTS RATED BELT-DRIVEN GENERATOR HEAD

https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=45416

I was thinking one for each AC unit and one for the house, but HF stuff does not inspire much confidence. I think I would want to shroud and fan cool them

Xtevan

lapeer20m 11-29-2007 05:30 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xtevan
Wow, you are making great progress, seems like I was just watching that bus on Ebay last week.

I have a lead on a pair of installed but un-used Dou-them Rooftop ACs and was pondering how I would power them on the road. The 12 volt conversion route seems pretty sketchy, Let us know how the 24 volt set up works when you get it going. AC here in Austin is not an option in the summer.

Has anyone seen these at Harbor Frieght
10,000 WATTS PEAK/7200 WATTS RATED BELT-DRIVEN GENERATOR HEAD

https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=45416

I was thinking one for each AC unit and one for the house, but HF stuff does not inspire much confidence. I think I would want to shroud and fan cool them

Xtevan

What do you plan to turn those generator heads with? You'd probably need a 12 hp engine for each unit. It would be near impossible to use the bus engine to turn a geni at exactly 3,600 rpm. If you create a mechanism to turn the geni at 3x engine speed it becomes 3x more difficult to maintain 3,600 rpm with the geni.

I just picked up a vw diesel golf for $400....something like that might be a good match for a pair of 10kw geni's.

Steve 11-30-2007 09:06 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lapeer20m
If you create a mechanism to turn the geni at 3x engine speed it becomes 3x more difficult to maintain 3,600 rpm with the geni.

The transmission in my bus has a PTO out the side it would be neat to be use something like that to turn a generator.

lapeer20m 11-30-2007 09:31 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
it would be neat. Here's what i see is the problem. It's a 3,600 rpm generator head and requires 10-12 hp. Turning your bus engine at 3600 rpm while parked to run run the geni wouldn't be fuel efficient since the engine probably produces at least 150 hp and that speed isn't even possible with most diesels, don't know how fast your gas engine turns.

The logical solution is to "gear up" the generator. If you could turn your bus engine at 1200 rpm and gear up the geni 3x you could run your engine at a much slower speed while still turning the generator at it's required speed. The problem of speed control becomes very important. If you had a controller that would keep the engine within a speed range of 3% of your target ie: 1200 rpm the geared up generator would be affected by up to 9% which would be considered unacceptable.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it would be tricky and prob not that efficient..... One advantage of having a liquid cooled engine turn a geni is that you can use the heat from the engine to keep humans warm....or to heat a jacuzzi. If you weren't going to vary the load on the geni you could have a manual adjustment for the throttle and probably make it work. The problem is if you're running your running something like an a/c and you've set the motor to spin 1200 rpm and the a/c unit shuts off the engine/geni would speed up significantly creating higher voltage and more importantly more than 60 hz.

Our fire dept has a hydraulic geni that runs of the vehicles engine. The hydraulic pump/motor and related items allow the generator to spin at a constant speed even when the truck engine speed varies significantly. I looked into one of those and they're like $10,000.

How about a big pto winch instead???? lol

Steve 11-30-2007 09:39 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lapeer20m
it would be neat. Here's what i see is the problem. It's a 3,600 rpm generator head and requires 10-12 hp. Turning your bus engine at 3600 rpm while parked to run run the geni wouldn't be fuel efficient since the engine probably produces at least 150 hp and that speed isn't even possible with most diesels, don't know how fast your gas engine turns.

I don't think the speed is an issue you just change your pulley sizes to get to the correct speed. A lot of buses have a fast idle cable so the engine speed can be set from the cab. You could park, set your engine speed and engage the PTO to run the generator for power and use the water for heat.

lapeer20m 11-30-2007 11:04 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
it would be a cool setup.

pete c 11-30-2007 12:05 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
what steve said. use motorcycle sprockets and chain. 3:1 would probably be good as 1200 rpm is a good speed to spin a diesel. But, spinning a 200+ hp diesel to power a 12 hp gennie seems a bit inefficient, also it would mean that power generation while underway would be impossible as the engine speed is gonna change quite a bit.

I think your solution is either a beefy DC generator or an A/C generator with seperate motor.

Steve 11-30-2007 12:23 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
The problem I have with separate motors besides having to find a place to put them and fuel them is that they are so noisy, when my bus is idling you cant tell it is running without looking at the tach.

lapeer20m 11-30-2007 03:52 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
I bought a ton of supplies today. Just over $500 worth of lumber, liquid nails, ceramic tile, insulation ect ect...Enough to make the F250 super duty's rear end squat. Well, it has that "new" boiler in the back too.

Tomorrow we hope to make some progress on the bus. Can't get her finished if we don't start working on her a little more diligently.

the_experience03 11-30-2007 08:49 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
I don't recall...have you done the ceramic tile before? My fear was always that it would flex with the body and start spitting out the grout, but if I'm wrong I might like to take that route with my bus.

KC10Chief 11-30-2007 09:46 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
I've been wondering the same thing. I wonder if they make some sort of grout that would give just a little bit? I am planning to build my shower. I'd really like to use some smaller, ceramic tiles in there. You know, the ones that are about 2x2". I haven't seen any that are made out of linoleum. I'm afraid that they might start popping out when I'm driving down the road. :?

lapeer20m 12-01-2007 04:31 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
nope, never done it in a bus before. Instead of the standard method for ceramic tile, we plan to use construction adhesive to bond the tile to the subfloor...prob luan. Then we're going to use high quality silicone to fill in the spaces between each tile. Seems like it should work. I am afraid that if we use grout and mortar when the bus flexes it'll crack a tile or three. But part of me sais that the bus probably won't really flex, it's pretty tough. I'll let ya know how it turns out.

pete c 12-01-2007 05:15 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
you might wanna go with something a little tougher and moisture resistant than the luan. how 'bout marine grade plywood?

lapeer20m 12-02-2007 09:43 AM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
that's a good idea.

the_experience03 12-02-2007 03:22 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Hmmm...if I can get my propane motor done and find a trailer (I don't want to flat tow that far) that might be all the more reason for me to make an appearance...

Elliot Naess 12-02-2007 05:16 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
:D
Woohoo!

About 24 Volts: Years ago, I drove 18-wheelers that had 24 V systems with two 12 V batteries in series. The starter ran on all 24 V, and the rest of the truck ran on 12 V off one of the batteries. So I can confirm that this is a workable setup.

As for the redundancy of having two alternators -- I love it! Making brackets is not difficult. Start by making patterns and prototypes of cardboard or hardboard or whatever, then duplicate the final design in steel. Remember to triangulate everything, so nothing can flex. With two alternators, you should be able to rig a switching system that would allow you to operate the bus on either alone. Kind'a like dual tires. You would want a Volt meter on each.
Now, if we could only find a way to mount two starters on an engine!
:D

the_experience03 12-02-2007 07:36 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
Switching them on and off might be an issue since it is self energizing. If he had an older alternator with a field input that could be cut off it could be easy. I suppose a person could isolate the mount and switch the ground on and off, collapsing the field in doing so.

Elliot Naess 12-02-2007 08:27 PM

Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV
 
:D
Hmmm... I admit I'm just brainstorming here. I was somewhat thinking along the lines of aircraft dual ignition systems, where you can shut each system off during your pre-flight check so you know the other is working.

Do you mean that it would be a problem to simply open a switch in that one wire? I have a one-wire alternator on my hot rod roadster, but I've never given any thought to how they work. They are most commonly used on boats, I believe. Actually, on the common GM car alternator that I have, the only difference is the regulator itself, which is known at my local auto electric shop as the marine regulator. Commercial grade alternators might be different, I suppose.

Just brainstorming today. Perhaps my brain has Sunday off! :lol:

But I'm serious about dual / redundant components -- specially starters. THAT would be a giant leap for mankind.
:D


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