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-   -   Henry's Tropicool, and how I learned to dislike it... (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/henrys-tropicool-and-how-i-learned-to-dislike-it-30629.html)

shaymcquaid 03-20-2020 01:40 PM

Henry's Tropicool, and how I learned to dislike it...
 
1 Attachment(s)
Greeting Bus Peeps...

So, I did what a lot of us do. I put Henrys Tropicool on my bus roof....and Im really regretting it!!!

Let me explain:
Before I did the roof with Tan Tropicool 887 I didnt have any leaks. I did it just as insurance for future leaks. Thinking I was stacking the deck in my favor.
Now, fast forward 2 months:
I am now to this day chasing leaks!!!
Seems to me that these buses are put together in a fashion so that the water sheds like a roof shingle.
Now that I have closed all the routes the water used to take with the rubber roof coating the water manages to find its way into the bus at weird spots.
Lots of weird spots!

My Thomas MVP has two ribs they run fore to aft and now that just hold water on top of the bus and it gives it the opportunity to find ways in.
I have mopped every seam trying to exclude the water , but its slow going and frustrating😜
Maybe Im dense or maybe I just dont know what Im doing, but I thought Id put this out there in hopes that my experience might be useful.
-Shay

Native 03-21-2020 02:47 AM

Long time no see, Shay! It is a shame you are now chasing leaks after all you have done with your bus. Can you park it on an incline while all the rains are happening here?


Edit: Did you use EternaBond or a similar seam sealer?

shaymcquaid 03-21-2020 02:14 PM

Hello Native,
No, it’s not done!��
Maybe that was my mistake not using seam sealer.
I thought this rubber coating would do that!��*♂️

schoolbuscraig 03-29-2020 07:21 AM

I am not a big fan either, the white Tropicool I coated my roof with looks dirty all of the time. Good luck with your leak!

PitskyWitbulls 06-30-2020 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaymcquaid (Post 377432)
Hello Native,
No, its not done!��
Maybe that was my mistake not using seam sealer.
I thought this rubber coating would do that!��*♂️

I'm getting ready to do my roof. I would like something to reduce the heat inside. After reading this thread I'm glad I hadn't dropped the $250 on Henry yet. Any type besides an elastomer you think would work better? I've had enough problems, I don't want to add to it.

Native 06-30-2020 01:36 AM

So far, our use of EternaBond seam sealer on ALL seams and ALL rivets followed by three coats of Ames elastomeric roof coating has kept the one weeping leak in the back out and no more have arrived. This has been two years now.

musigenesis 06-30-2020 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 394259)
I'm getting ready to do my roof. I would like something to reduce the heat inside.

No paint of any kind will provide any insulating value. All that paint can do as far as temperature control is concerned is to reflect sunlight, which would otherwise raise the temperature of the bus well above the ambient temperature. Any white paint will serve that purpose.

For temperature control when you're not in direct sunlight, you need to insulate inside with spray foam, XPS, rock wool etc., and the effectiveness of this insulation will be a function of how thick it is. There is no magical substance in the world that can be applied in a layer as thin as paint that will provide a significant R-value; even aerogel, an absurdly expensive high-tech insulating material, only has an R-value of 10 per inch, so a 1/32" thick layer (about the recommended thickness for elastomeric paint) would provide an R-value of 0.3125.

Caplansail 06-30-2020 02:32 PM

What would the pros and cons be of sealing and painting the roof (regular paint), and coming back later with elastomeric paint if desired?

EastCoastCB 06-30-2020 03:33 PM

properly sealed and painted there's no need for elastomeric.
That would kinda be like putting a bandaid on after a wound has healed.

Native 07-01-2020 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caplansail (Post 394335)
What would the pros and cons be of sealing and painting the roof (regular paint), and coming back later with elastomeric paint if desired?

You *can* do it ... but like EastCoastCB said ... there is no need. I have elastomeric coating on our bus *instead* of paint. It seemed to be very easy to apply a thick set of coats.

PitskyWitbulls 07-15-2020 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musigenesis (Post 394280)
No paint of any kind will provide any insulating value. All that paint can do as far as temperature control is concerned is to reflect sunlight, which would otherwise raise the temperature of the bus well above the ambient temperature. Any white paint will serve that purpose.

I don't know... the Bussy McBusFace YouTube series used Henry's and said they noticed an immediate drop in inside temperature. They said they were no longer burning their hands on the ribs and that was in the AZ sun. Also, studies do show a 12 degree average drop in surface temperature by using just white paint on rooftops and that would translate to a lower interior surface temperature. If white paint alone drops the surface temp, then RV roof coats :danger: SHOULD :danger: reduce surface temps even more.

I already have insulation in my ceiling. Not spray foam but the reasons why is a whole other nightmare. I'm just looking for any way to reduce interior temps, seal the seams (not that I have any leaks), and protect the rooftop from AC condensation.

ol trunt 07-15-2020 03:46 PM

"If white paint alone drops the surface temp, then RV roof coats SHOULD reduce surface temps even more".

I'm not able to see the relationship. What am I missing?
Jack:popcorn:

PitskyWitbulls 07-15-2020 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol trunt (Post 396488)
"If white paint alone drops the surface temp, then RV roof coats SHOULD reduce surface temps even more".

I'm not able to see the relationship. What am I missing?
Jack:popcorn:

White paint alone isn't as thick and it doesn't contain any special reflective components. RV roof coats are thicker and contain reflective additives.

I understand the studies linked are on buildings not a school bus but an 87F drop is still significant.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48395221
https://heatisland.lbl.gov/coolscience/cool-roofs

EastCoastCB 07-15-2020 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol trunt (Post 396488)
"If white paint alone drops the surface temp, then RV roof coats SHOULD reduce surface temps even more".

I'm not able to see the relationship. What am I missing?
Jack:popcorn:

I'm not either, Jack.
CB

ol trunt 07-15-2020 06:28 PM

I read both articles and neither mention an advantage gained by "thickness" but rather by virtue of being white.

I've nothing against Tropicool--the fact that it's white and good at waterproofing is reason enough to use it I suppose. That it contains special reflective components or additives is not supported by the information offered by the mfg.

https://henry.com/retail/white-roof-...e-roof-coating.

Features
100% waterproof
Rain-safe in 15-minutes
Wide application temperature range from 35 F to 120 F (2 C to 49 C)
Save energy by reflecting heat
Excellent adhesion and flexibility
Permanent ponding water resistant
Superior UV resistance and weathering characteristics
VOC compliant; solvent-free
Mold and mildew resistant
Chemically bonds with roof substrate as it cures
Easy to apply by spray, roller or brush
Lifetime limited warranty with 1-coat application

Just as an aside, smooth, shiny white surfaces reflect better than rough, dull white surfaces.
Jack:popcorn:

PitskyWitbulls 07-15-2020 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol trunt (Post 396510)
I read both articles and neither mention an advantage gained by "thickness" but rather by virtue of being white.

I've nothing against Tropicool--the fact that it's white and good at waterproofing is reason enough to use it I suppose. That it contains special reflective components or additives is not supported by the information offered by the mfg.

https://henry.com/retail/white-roof-...e-roof-coating.

Features
100% waterproof
Rain-safe in 15-minutes
Wide application temperature range from 35 F to 120 F (2 C to 49 C)
Save energy by reflecting heat
Excellent adhesion and flexibility
Permanent ponding water resistant
Superior UV resistance and weathering characteristics
VOC compliant; solvent-free
Mold and mildew resistant
Chemically bonds with roof substrate as it cures
Easy to apply by spray, roller or brush
Lifetime limited warranty with 1-coat application

Just as an aside, smooth, shiny white surfaces reflect better than rough, dull white surfaces.
Jack:popcorn:

I never said Henry's contained anything, I said RV roof coats. Some do contain additives as expressed in the first article. I think white lime counts as an additive to the white reflective paint

musigenesis 07-15-2020 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 396484)
I don't know... the Bussy McBusFace YouTube series used Henry's and said they noticed an immediate drop in inside temperature.

So I think what happens is:
  1. Person buys bus with yellow roof
  2. Person paints roof with Tropi-Cool
  3. Person notices immediate drop in temperature
  4. Person swears by Henry's forevermore

So the stuff does work as advertised and it does reduce internal temperature (at least in direct sunlight), but the real test of its effectiveness would be in comparison to ordinary white paint - which would also produce a noticeable drop in temperature when applied. I've never tested the two side-by-side myself (although it actually would be pretty easy to do, and I think a user here actually did that some time ago and found Tropi-Cool to be a tiny bit better than regular paint).

I think some of the confusion around the stuff comes from Henry's claim that it "reflects heat" which is kind of a misleading/nonsensical phrase in physics terms. Heat will transfer to a bus via conduction, convection and radiation. Of these three, only radiation can be "reflected" in any sense, but radiation will only be a significant source of heat input when you're in direct sunlight (or maybe when your bus in on fire, or less alarmingly when your wood stove is going). And that reflection can be achieved by any white paint (with a little variation).

But the term "reflects heat" seems to lead people to think that Tropi-Cool also resists heat transfer via conduction/convection, which it doesn't because it can't - there's no way a layer of anything 1/30" thick (about the recommended application thickness for elastomeric paints) will have a significant effect on that. So if the sun's not out, Tropi-Cool isn't doing anything except keeping the water out (which it apparently can't be relied upon to do, but that's a different matter) and getting dirty (another different matter).

PitskyWitbulls 07-15-2020 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musigenesis (Post 396520)
So I think what happens is:
  1. Person buys bus with yellow roof
  2. Person paints roof with Tropi-Cool
  3. Person notices immediate drop in temperature
  4. Person swears by Henry's forevermore

The Bussy McBusFace bus started with a white roof.

EastCoastCB 07-15-2020 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 396525)
The Bussy McBusFace bus started with a white roof.

The placebo effect is strong, but I'd hate to have a rubbery coating collecting dust and dirt, yellowing and peeling slowly over the years till one year I have to sand all that rubberized stuff off. Paint won't stick to anything silicone so if you tire of it it ALL has to come off to apply a real paint.

PitskyWitbulls 07-15-2020 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 396534)
The placebo effect is strong, but I'd hate to have a rubbery coating collecting dust and dirt, yellowing and peeling slowly over the years till one year I have to sand all that rubberized stuff off. Paint won't stick to anything silicone so if you tire of it it ALL has to come off to apply a real paint.

Literally meets your requirement for comparison, dismissed as placebo effect. That's enough internet for me tonight.

musigenesis 07-15-2020 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 396540)
Literally meets your requirement for comparison, dismissed as placebo effect. That's enough internet for me tonight.

Well, those were my requirements, EastCoastCB said placebo effect. TBF I might also have said something like that eventually, but I think it's reasonable to want a more controlled testing process than "I did this and it felt cooler", especially when thermometers are easy to come by. Perhaps this is an unfair representation of what Dr. McBusFace actually did, so I'll check out the video if I can find it.

Mountain Gnome 07-15-2020 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol trunt (Post 396510)
Just as an aside, smooth, shiny white surfaces reflect better than rough, dull white surfaces.
Jack:popcorn:

Which is why I painted my roof with gloss white enamel paint. It was supposed to be clear and warm. Clouds moved in immediately, and due settled. Then it froze. For all 4 coats. So now I have a rough dull white roof.


I added "Insuladd" ("makes paint insulate") to the first 2 coats, as recommended by ... oh shoot, there goes the brain again...I can never remember names, but the amazing old "hippie" gent from TX with the amazing bus he was building from scratch who unfortunately moved on to the next dimension.


Anyway, the stuff says it was invented by NASA and is little ceramic balls. It left the paint like sandpaper, so it took another two coats to get it smooth. But then it froze again anyway.

Native 07-16-2020 03:01 AM

You are thinking of Tango!

Native 07-16-2020 03:09 AM

Oh, here is a link to the pseudo-science that a member, Jatzy, performed on various products.

leadsled01 07-16-2020 06:58 AM

Last weekend I coated 3 coats of hernrys tropicool 100 % silicone on my enclosed trailer and we are in a heat wave all week. Very noticeable cooler inside trailer every time I open the door compared to week before when temps were slightly cooler.

ol trunt 07-16-2020 11:04 AM

Yup, white will do that every time
Jack:popcorn:

jazty 07-16-2020 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol trunt (Post 396605)
Yup, white will do that every time
Jack:popcorn:


Exactly.


Paint doesn't insulate worth anything useful. Period. It's too thin.


The colour of the paint does, however, affect how much radiant energy is absorbed or reflected.


Pure black paint absorbs 100% and reflects 0% of visible light radiation and thus gets quite hot.
Pure white paint absorbs 0% and reflects 100% of visible light radiation and thus can stay the same temperature as it's environment (not cooler).


Living in an imperfect world we don't get pure white or pure black, but something in between.

jazty 07-16-2020 12:17 PM

Texture and glossiness also plays into the heat absorption.

PitskyWitbulls 07-16-2020 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musigenesis (Post 396543)
Well, those were my requirements, EastCoastCB said placebo effect. TBF I might also have said something like that eventually, but I think it's reasonable to want a more controlled testing process than "I did this and it felt cooler", especially when thermometers are easy to come by. Perhaps this is an unfair representation of what Dr. McBusFace actually did, so I'll check out the video if I can find it.

I linked two articles that show there is a difference between just white paint and roof coatings. White paint alone will not lower roof surface temperatures by 87(F). Standard acrylic paint changes the color of your roof. Thats it.

Mountain Gnome 07-16-2020 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 396621)
I linked two articles that show there is a difference between just white paint and roof coatings. White paint alone will not lower roof surface temperatures by 87(F). Standard acrylic paint changes the color of your roof. Thats it.

Wait...what did I miss....


WHAT will lower the roof surface temp by 87F? (besides a block of dry ice)



Or does 87(F) mean something else?

jazty 07-16-2020 12:52 PM

87F on it's own doesn't mean anything. The best you can theoretically ever hope to achieve with a roof coating is to get the roof down to ambient temperature.

jazty 07-16-2020 12:53 PM

If you want to get below ambient temperature you better get on the roof with a hose :)

PitskyWitbulls 07-16-2020 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome (Post 396625)
Wait...what did I miss....


WHAT will lower the roof surface temp by 87F? (besides a block of dry ice)



Or does 87(F) mean something else?

there are two articles linked in this thread. Both talk about roof coating as opposed to paint.

EastCoastCB 07-16-2020 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 396491)
White paint alone isn't as thick and it doesn't contain any special reflective components. RV roof coats are thicker and contain reflective additives.

I understand the studies linked are on buildings not a school bus but an 87F drop is still significant.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48395221
https://heatisland.lbl.gov/coolscience/cool-roofs

Neither of those address using silicone-rubberized paint on a vehicle. Neither address why the OP and many of us don't want elastomeric roof coatings on our buses. Obviously you're free to use it and free to tell others how great you think it is.

and the bbc article you linked is specifically about white paints/coatings in general.

PitskyWitbulls 07-16-2020 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 396644)
Neither of those address using silicone-rubberized paint on a vehicle. Neither address why the OP and many of us don't want elastomeric roof coatings on our buses. Obviously you're free to use it and free to tell others how great you think it is.

and the bbc article you linked is specifically about white paints/coatings in general.

I never said anything about it being used on buses and explicitly said they are on buildings, not bus roofs. I never said either article was about using rubberized coatings on a school bus. However a little extrapolation will get you to where I was going.

The BBC article states they used limestone in the coating to increase reflectivity and it did reduce the internal temperature. The other article where they did test the rooftop temps before and after coating with thermometers (on a steel building not a school bus) the surface temperature did drop significantly.If even a fraction of 87F translates to a bus roof, it will make a difference.

In the south where the sun is oppressive, every little bit helps. My entire bus is white. It's also insulated with a ship-lap ceiling. I've done everything I can inside to reduce the heat. Awnings are the next solution but that is a $2000+ investment.

$114 and a sweaty afternoon sounds a little better than a $2000 hit. Obviously you're free not to use it and insist to others it doesn't work but isn't that like someone without a tattoo telling you how much they hurt? :biggrin::rofl:

EastCoastCB 07-16-2020 05:06 PM

All I'm saying is if you end up hating it like the OP and others its a LOT of work to remove and paint properly.

PitskyWitbulls 07-16-2020 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 396654)
All I'm saying is if you end up hating it like the OP and others its a LOT of work to remove and paint properly.

I'm gonna stick with the tattoo analogy. :thumb:

EastCoastCB 07-16-2020 06:09 PM

Its not a good one at all. They do hurt. I have plenty.

BartStephens 08-18-2020 12:56 PM

I understand the studies linked are on buildings not a school bus but an 87F drop is still significant.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48395221
https://heatisland.lbl.gov/coolscience/cool-roofs[/QUOTE]


Excellent resources. Thank you for sharing.

BartStephens 08-18-2020 01:11 PM

Wow. I am reading myself bananas on this subject. I am going to do a comparison test.

QUESTION:
Setting aside elastomeric,...just PLAIN WHITE PAINT,...do any of you have a recommendation? Brand? Type?

EastCoastCB 08-18-2020 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BartStephens (Post 401313)
Wow. I am reading myself bananas on this subject. I am going to do a comparison test.

QUESTION:
Setting aside elastomeric,...just PLAIN WHITE PAINT,...do any of you have a recommendation? Brand? Type?

Depends.
If you're cheap Rustoleum or the equivalent. Or auto grade.

EastCoastCB 08-18-2020 01:49 PM

I highly doubt a coating will take my house from 100F to 13F.

kazetsukai 08-18-2020 02:14 PM

What I'll say is:
  • We put tropicool on our roof
  • It started to look like crap after a short period of time
  • It dropped the temps inside very significantly. From metal surfaces too hot to touch and working in an oven, to cool to the touch in full sun.
  • No "placebo", to suggest that even is stupid, it works to this day
  • I would not do it again without painting the roof white proper first, and if I didn't see results I would use it again over the white roof. But that's because I don't give a hoot what my roof looks like.

cadillackid 08-18-2020 05:13 PM

ive not tried tropicool but i do have 2 busses with plain white roofs and one with a light beige roof.. and its all the difference in the world from the beige to the white..
the difference between the interior ceiling being hot to the touch and just barely warm

Native 08-18-2020 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BartStephens (Post 401313)
Wow. I am reading myself bananas on this subject. I am going to do a comparison test.

Before you perform your own tests (which I would urge you to do and post the results here), you may want to read the thread where a member, Jatzy, did just that.

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/i...ease-9291.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by BartStephens (Post 401313)
Setting aside elastomeric,...

Do not be too quick to dismiss elastomeric coatings. The coating the OP referred to is a 100% silicone roof coating. Avoid silicone. It absorbs water and promotes rust. It can not be painted without special treatment.

Elastomeric coatings (such as Ames Extreme-Stretch Elastometic coating is a rubberized coating. It can be painted. So if the color of the product is not quite what matches your color palette for your bus, paint it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BartStephens (Post 401313)
QUESTION:
...just PLAIN WHITE PAINT,...do any of you have a recommendation? Brand? Type?

Use the same type of paint as you would use on the rest of your bus.

JackE 08-18-2020 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 396660)
I'm gonna stick with the tattoo analogy. :thumb:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 396662)
Its not a good one at all. They do hurt. I have plenty.

It's a great analogy. I don't have any so what good does it do for me to tell someone how much it hurts. I really have no idea. If you don't have it on your roof, you can't give an opinion of experience on how bad it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazetsukai (Post 401322)
What I'll say is:
  • We put tropicool on our roof
  • It started to look like crap after a short period of time
  • It dropped the temps inside very significantly. From metal surfaces too hot to touch and working in an oven, to cool to the touch in full sun.
  • No "placebo", to suggest that even is stupid, it works to this day
  • I would not do it again without painting the roof white proper first, and if I didn't see results I would use it again over the white roof. But that's because I don't give a hoot what my roof looks like.

This is the kind of advice I love! Because of your experience, I plan on using only white paint. If it still seems too hot, I'll put the elastic paint on top of it. I don't really care what the roof looks like either, I'm not tall enough to see it.

smithcredibus 08-23-2020 01:14 AM

I also have Tropicool on my roof. Roof raiser put BlackJack Elastokool 1000 on it and I meant to put Solar-flex but my wife surprised me with Tropicool applied by a friendly friend for my bday.
Now I’ve finished sanding the sides below the roofline and left numerous paint-dust-sand handprints on the Tropicool.
Adhesion seems great. It’s very thick, I used 4.75gal for two coats.
But the staining I was hoping would no be an issue bc”nothing sticks to silicone,” meanwhile these handprints beg to differ.

I will also try plain white paint before silicon-ing the roof of my next bus.
But this bus will always have silicone on its roof, I guess.

PitskyWitbulls 08-23-2020 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BartStephens (Post 401313)
Wow. I am reading myself bananas on this subject. I am going to do a comparison test.

QUESTION:
Setting aside elastomeric,...just PLAIN WHITE PAINT,...do any of you have a recommendation? Brand? Type?

I'm not trying to start fights but don't listen to [Mod Edit]. I looked through all of the posts on this forum about roof coats and paint. Him and one other guy poop on everyone who says roof coats make a difference. I appreciate your props but look at the research and make your own decision. Paint alone will make the roof look pretty. A coating as shown by research will decrease roof temperature which SHOULD translate to decreased temps inside. Look through the threads. All the links are in this thread or at least search terms to find skoolie owners results (ALL POSITIVE).

Take care and I always hope the best

EastCoastCB 08-23-2020 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 402008)
[Mod Edit] I looked through all of the posts on this forum about roof coats and paint. Him and one other guy poop on everyone who says roof coats make a difference. I appreciate your props but look at the research and make your own decision. Paint alone will make the roof look pretty. A coating as shown by research will decrease roof temperature which SHOULD translate to decreased temps inside. Look through the threads. All the links are in this thread or at least search terms to find skoolie owners results (ALL POSITIVE).

Take care and I always hope the best

[Mod Edit] Unless one wants a shite bandaid coating that can't be painted over and collects dust and dirt.
Shay McQuaid didn't listen and at least he came on here to admit he was wrong. Not too many do that. Like the kids I watched painting their entire bus with roof paint over here in my bus yard one day. Looks like total crap.

If all the user reports of this product were as positive as you allude why do we have this very thread outlining one's disappointment in the product???

PitskyWitbulls 08-23-2020 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 402023)
[Mod Edit] Unless one wants a shite bandaid coating that can't be painted over and collects dust and dirt.
Shay McQuaid didn't listen and at least he came on here to admit he was wrong. Not too many do that. Like the kids I watched painting their entire bus with roof paint over here in my bus yard one day. Looks like total crap.

If all the user reports of this product were as positive as you allude why do we have this very thread outlining one's disappointment in the product???

So you're saying everyone should listen to you, don't do their own research, or make their own decisions.
[Mod Edit]


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