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-   -   Henry's Tropicool, and how I learned to dislike it... (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/henrys-tropicool-and-how-i-learned-to-dislike-it-30629.html)

cadillackid 08-23-2020 08:45 AM

theres research on here to be found, tjhere is a few members here who have painted their roofs with elastometric paint and had good results. , i think the issue with the tropicool product referenced here is that it didnt stay clean and isnt a nice smooth surface to be easily washed back to white..



color DOES have a lot to do with heat gain, however if elastometric paint beads also create mini air spaced "bubbles" in the coating then that very much can increase the insukating properties. . since a lot of what insulation does is trap heat in air spaces over layers


I casnt find the thread now but I thought someone did a test where they painted sections of their roof with white paint and then elastometric and found that the coatings did make some difference,



agaun being able to maintain it is also important.. if a product yellows or traps mold/ dirt and becomes darker its definitely not going to work anything close to what it did when first applied..



there is something to be said for the ease of maintenance of smooth glossy white paint, where you can easily simple-green and hose it clean back to bright white.



-Christopher

PitskyWitbulls 08-23-2020 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 401319)
I highly doubt a coating will take my house from 100F to 13F.

Again you fail to follow logic or context clues. No one said the internal temps dropped 87 (I'm surprised you could do the math) SURFACE TEMPS. That means that the surface of the roof (a roof is the thing that sits on top of houses, buildings, and yes! even buses) dropped in temperature.

PitskyWitbulls 08-23-2020 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musigenesis (Post 394280)
No paint of any kind will provide any insulating value. All that paint can do as far as temperature control is concerned is to reflect sunlight, which would otherwise raise the temperature of the bus well above the ambient temperature. Any white paint will serve that purpose.

For temperature control when you're not in direct sunlight, you need to insulate inside with spray foam, XPS, rock wool etc., and the effectiveness of this insulation will be a function of how thick it is. There is no magical substance in the world that can be applied in a layer as thin as paint that will provide a significant R-value; even aerogel, an absurdly expensive high-tech insulating material, only has an R-value of 10 per inch, so a 1/32" thick layer (about the recommended thickness for elastomeric paint) would provide an R-value of 0.3125.

Roof coatings don't have an R value.

PitskyWitbulls 08-23-2020 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid (Post 402033)
theres research on here to be found, tjhere is a few members here who have painted their roofs with elastometric paint and had good results. , i think the issue with the tropicool product referenced here is that it didnt stay clean and isnt a nice smooth surface to be easily washed back to white..



color DOES have a lot to do with heat gain, however if elastometric paint beads also create mini air spaced "bubbles" in the coating then that very much can increase the insukating properties. . since a lot of what insulation does is trap heat in air spaces over layers


I casnt find the thread now but I thought someone did a test where they painted sections of their roof with white paint and then elastometric and found that the coatings did make some difference,



agaun being able to maintain it is also important.. if a product yellows or traps mold/ dirt and becomes darker its definitely not going to work anything close to what it did when first applied..



there is something to be said for the ease of maintenance of smooth glossy white paint, where you can easily simple-green and hose it clean back to bright white.



-Christopher


This is the link to the "test" you were referring to:


I think how smooth the coating is will depend on how you apply it. If you rent a sprayer it will be smoother. If you use a roller, it will be textured.

EastCoastCB 08-23-2020 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 402030)
So you're saying everyone should listen to you, don't do their own research, or make their own decisions.

You've just shown yourself to be the troll you really are.

kazetsukai 08-23-2020 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 402030)
You've been [Mod Edit] throughout this thread.

He has an opinion on Tropicool. I did my roof with it because ROLL WITH IT and friends on YouTube did, and I had bigger fish to fry than doing research. To people that do know the drawbacks, this can be frustrating.



Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 402030)
[Mod Edit] anyone who disagrees with you.

Nah, he's pretty chill most of the time, and one of the top contributors.



Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 402030)
[Mod Edit]

This is the opposite description to that of his character :rofl:



Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 402043)
[Mod Edit]

I think others have other opinions on TC. Like the $1000 poo buckets, investing in something doesn't just involve money, it involves choice, and people feel compelled to defend their choices. I'd say you're wrong about it being ineffective at lowering temperatures, right about it looking like heck after a short period.


Nuance, folks. No need to get personal and on the offensive.

Polarweasel 08-23-2020 12:33 PM

Reminder... It's OK to disagree with others BUT name calling, ridicule and trolling are not allowed.

Here is a link to our site rules: https://www.skoolie.net/forums/misc....ork&page=rules

We all agreed to them when we joined.

TomA 08-23-2020 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musigenesis (Post 394280)
No paint of any kind will provide any insulating value. All that paint can do as far as temperature control is concerned is to reflect sunlight

Not quite...

There's actually a lot going on when a surface is reflecting some and absorbing some UV energy (light,) converting the absorbed energy to heat, and radiating that out as infrared energy. I won't explain (because I call my uncle the retired chemistry teacher to sort me out on such things when I need help, and so that some engineer who took a class on it 30 years ago won't skool me on everything wrong with my post,) but black body radiation is is a thing, and why flat black is the best performing surface for frying pans, heat sinks and wood stoves. Nuff said...

For this discussion, a roof coating's thickness, composition and gloss level would very likely impact performance (the coating's ability reflect light (UV,) to radiate heat back off the surface (emissivity) and also to keep that heat from being transmitted into the roof skin on which its applied,} even with all choices of coatings being the same bright white.

Theoretically, Tropicool having a flat finish and higher emissivity than paint, combined with an order of magnitude thicker application of a material that could keep the surface heat away from the roof skin better, should easily outperform even a glossier, thinner, more UV reflective white paint film. ALL engineering hits compromises in the field, though. If Tropicool quickly loads up with dirt and its emissivity and UV reflectivity are degraded, its theoretical performance could indeed be overwhelmed by typical field conditions.

Its a hugely interesting subject, and worthy of a Master's Thesis like this one here:

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a598855.pdf

Here's a much more practical paper from a thermal imaging company on how to actually improve emissivity cheaply:

https://www.flir.com.au/discover/rd-...et-emissivity/

Fascinating, but so what? Its all about compromise on the road. Most of us would rather plumb the coach than go down a rabbit hole like this one, which is why taking the experience and advice of a fellow builder in reaching your own solution is a very efficient way to make decisions.

For myself, nearly the entire roof of my build will be covered with solar panels, (set 6" off the surface for a number of reasons) so my priorities are heat rejection, to be sure, but mostly to make certain that area stays clean under the panels and doesn't ever leak, which would be a severe PITA to correct. Haven't decided what to do yet...

Everyone does what works for them for tons of reasons; or it doesn't and then they redo it with a better compromise for them. We here have much more in common than what we so easily disagree about online. Try to remember that, everybody.

Over & Out...

EastCoastCB 08-23-2020 05:56 PM

Funny how shills for conversion companies come in and start arguments.

kazetsukai 08-23-2020 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB (Post 402118)
Funny how shills for conversion companies come in and start arguments.

Just remember that it takes two to tango.

cadillackid 08-23-2020 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazetsukai (Post 402122)
Just remember that it takes two to tango.


I dont know.. Tango sure did a pretty bang up job by himself :)

EastCoastCB 08-23-2020 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid (Post 402138)
I dont know.. Tango sure did a pretty bang up job by himself :)

He sure did.

Native 08-23-2020 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitskyWitbulls (Post 402041)
This is the link to the "test" you were referring to:


I think how smooth the coating is will depend on how you apply it. If you rent a sprayer it will be smoother. If you use a roller, it will be textured.

The meat of the experiment/test starts at post #38.

ol trunt 08-23-2020 11:23 PM

PitskyWitbulls , have you ever actually used TC? If so what did you think of it?
Jack:popcorn:

JDOnTheGo 08-24-2020 09:33 AM

To those of you making personal attacks...

Have you considered that you are addressing another human being?

Even more amazing, you are talking about PAINT! Is PAINT a topic that is really worth insulting another person??

Have you stopped to consider that perhaps the spirit in which something was offered may NOT be the same way that you received/perceived it?? Perhaps the person just had a REALLY bad day and said something a bit more terse than necessary - should they be crucified for it or maybe given a little slack??

I don't care if someone disagrees with you or seems to be insulting you - sometimes you just gotta step away - especially if you are incapable of replying in a reasonable and helpful manner. This is something I taught my children when they were ten years old. Why the need to retaliate?? Do you think your honor has been damaged and that stooping to the same level will restore it?

Please knock if off.

TomA 08-24-2020 10:42 AM

One last thing...

Its really no surprise that any really flat finish gets very dirty very quickly on a road vehicle. Car and bus bodies pick up a substantial negative charge from the friction of moving through the air, like rubbing a balloon on your hair times 1000. The tires largely isolate that built up negative charge from grounding out, too.

Negatively charged, the irregular and relatively huge surface area of the Tropicool coating is ideal for attracting and trapping fine particles. This would be particularly true on a broad surface in turbulent laminar airflow that isn't scrubbed clean like the windshield. A flat roof coating creates a perfect (dust) storm of conditions for particles to accumulate, just sitting there waiting for gravity to happily coat it with all manner of dust, industrial overspray, pollen and grime...

Just one more way that field conditions can overwhelm the theoretical advantage of a product that's superior in a static lab test...

smithcredibus 08-24-2020 06:10 PM

Good info to consider
I appreciate the views of all of you and did not adequately get steered away from Tropicool when I (my wife) did my roof.
I wish I’d done something else like the beautiful high-solid paint I’ve coated the rest of my bus with.
But I didn’t and I’m happy with the Tropicool thus far, but I will say that pressure washing it after the first 30 days of being parked, I am NOT impressed with the amount of dirt accumulation, especially considering that I haven’t even driven it.
Im hopeful that the coating continues reducing heat transmission but without washing every 30 days I’m not sure that will occur to the extent I initially hoped for.

If I had it to do over I would start with decent paint and if it didn’t adequately reduce interior heat, I would attempt the Tropicool.

TLDR: It’s complicated to use/have on my roof, perhaps too much trouble.
Additionally it was extremely dirty after 30 days parked under trees.
Pressure washing is simple but not so simple that I want to do it once a month +++. I am satisfied that it reduced surface and interior temp after one coat, and I’ve since applied a second coat.
The previous thread that compared several coatings led me towards elastomeric paint, and I believe it’s a good product. But I wish I’d used siliconized acrylic instead of 100% silicone.

Native 09-07-2020 05:13 AM

I know it has been posted on this site before (I seem to recall it was posted within this thread, but I am too lazy to look for it) ... people have wanted colors other than white on their roofs, such as a light tan. The reasons stated is to have *most* of the reflectivity properties of white but in a preferred color and to hide the dirt a little.


As for me personally, would I like to paint something other than white on my roof?


Yes, I have painted BLACK implement paint over certain areas of our bus roof to change the aesthetics while retaining the conformal coating over the entire roof surface.


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