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-   -   PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f50/plumbing-question-vent-related-9520.html)

bansil 08-26-2014 07:01 AM

PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
Okay I will not have holding tanks until maybe next year

Plan is to have kitchen sink, bathtub and toilet

Main line will be a 3" line from toilet to gate valve and then to dump at FH campsite

the tub will connect to the 3" with 1-1/2 pipe (with S trap for odor control)

sink will connect to 3" line before gate valve (with S trap for odor control)

while camping I will just keep the gate valve open while connected to the dump pipe with a cone end

Do I need a "vent" if so were would you put it?
https://www.skoolie.net/attachments/p...0d916fc193.jpg

If I put a vent near the toilet end (highest) I could theoretically use the 3" pipe volume for an emergency deuce or two :mrgreen:

turf 08-26-2014 08:17 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
i would put the tank under the toilet and the vent by the sink. moving solids down the pipe takes a bit more water.

bansil 08-26-2014 09:01 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
It's a household toilet and it should be able to move the "solids" at least 15 ft., like a ho8use...right?

I was going to mimic the angle at home, and it goes 100 ft. to the septic tank

Since I wont have a tank, this will be used for F/H camping so I don't see big tanks in my future

lornaschinske 08-26-2014 09:11 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
I would put the vent (Cheater/Cheader/Schrader/AAV... pick one, they are all the same thing) under the sink. This vent is to allow air INTO the drain lines to allow the water to drain. Under the sink because it is the highest in altitude. You might have to add an additional vent to your vanity sink, depending on the volume of water draining.

We have discovered the single AAV vent we installed on the washer drain line isn't able to suck enough air into the vent. We need to add one under the kitchen sink (AFTER THE P- TRAP) to prevent the washer drainage from sucking the p-trap dry every time it dumps all that water.

BTW, we use valves to bypass the grey tank while hooked up to a sewer. Only black is "held".

On the toilet... It should be okay as long as you have a good slope. We just installed a $68 Home Depot cheapie toilet as yet another part broke on the Mansfield and time was of the essence. It dumps 1.25 gallons per flush. We filled up the holding tank way to fast, then we left the valve open. But David wasn't fond of the idea that the toilet might leave a Tower of Doom in the holding tank despite the amount of water it puts out. We can't just look down thru the toilet to see the tank anymore. So the valve was closed again. We are going to put a gasket on the toilet tank lid, strap the lid down with a velcro strap and attempt to leave the toilet fully functioning when traveling. The water level in the bowl and the tank is pretty low so we think (and hope) it will work. Definately will have to build a bigger black tank.

turf 08-26-2014 10:37 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
a household toilet will need a vent above it to move that amount of liquid down the pipe. small vents work on campers because we arent moving much water and we can burp at the dump station. a 3" pipe full of liquids is gonna have to be vented above the offending fixture.

an rv toilet is kind of a self venting fixture. you open the valve straight to the drain and it sucks in air. the household toilet has a watertrap built into it, so it is unable to vent itself when you flush

bansil 08-26-2014 10:54 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
https://www.skoolie.net/attachments/p...91976a6717.gif

great info!

Thanks

roach711 08-26-2014 02:30 PM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
The sink-end vents are there to keep the slug of water going down the drain pipe from siphoning the P-traps. Air has come in from the sink end and be vented at the tank end or your drains will gurgle like mad. The cheader vents are nice because they are both a vent and a seal to prevent nasty smells back into the bus. They have no water in them so you have one less spot to winterize and plumbing is simpler than a P-trap/vent setup.

Assuming you're using a home style toilet you would need to vent the toilet (probably through the roof) and put cheader vents on the sinks to keep the stink in the drain pipe. P-traps on the sinks would probably work (the toilet vent probably would vent the sinks too), but the cheaders definitely would.

bansil 08-26-2014 02:50 PM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roach711
The sink-end vents are there to keep the slug of water going down the drain pipe from siphoning the P-traps. Air has come in from the sink end and be vented at the tank end or your drains will gurgle like mad. The cheader vents are nice because they are both a vent and a seal to prevent nasty smells back into the bus. They have no water in them so you have one less spot to winterize and plumbing is simpler than a P-trap/vent setup.

Assuming you're using a home style toilet you would need to vent the toilet (probably through the roof) and put cheader vents on the sinks to keep the stink in the drain pipe. P-traps on the sinks would probably work (the toilet vent probably would vent the sinks too), but the cheaders definitely would.

what is a cheader?
Google is not cooperating with me, I know it's not a restaurant or music something, somethin :lol:

lornaschinske 08-26-2014 02:52 PM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
David & I have been talking about what you are trying to do. We have found a few issues that may give you problems later with tanks. My question is, are you planning on adding holding tanks later?

lornaschinske 08-26-2014 02:54 PM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bansil
what is a cheader?

https://www.homedepot.com/s/air%2520admi ... lve?NCNI-5

bansil 08-26-2014 05:28 PM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lornaschinske
David & I have been talking about what you are trying to do. We have found a few issues that may give you problems later with tanks. My question is, are you planning on adding holding tanks later?

honestly....no...reality is if we "had" to live of grid because of an emergency whatever......a hole in the ground would work just fine, hell out houses have been used before :wink:

when we "Glamp" we want 50 amp or atleast 30...so we can have guests and party w/o blowing a fuse....you have seen what happens then?...right? :shock: who ever goes to "just flip the breaker back"

.
.
.
.
.
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looses there head or their heart falls to the ground with thier stomach :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

so I really dont see holding tanks in the future

And with 15 ft of 3" pipe I would need a real...real...emergency :shock: to have to use it on the road....at that point...fill it up :mrgreen:

turf 08-26-2014 05:50 PM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
15' of 3" pipe will give you a hair over 5g of storage. thats just right for a single flush from a standard toilet

bansil 08-26-2014 06:01 PM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by turf
15' of 3" pipe will give you a hair over 5g of storage. thats just right for a single flush from a standard toilet

yup with one in the chamber :shock: ..... :mrgreen: ....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

kind of my hi-way goal :wink:

we should have pictures of something by sunday....3 days until me and my friend head out....still got porto pot under shelf :wink:
.
.
ugh...gotta go and check...hope it's clean from last trip :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

lornaschinske 08-26-2014 06:04 PM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by turf
15' of 3" pipe will give you a hair over 5g of storage. thats just right for a single flush from a standard toilet

Two flushes (or more) with a current low flow standard residential toilet. Some I just looked at were dual flush using 1 gal for "liquids" and 1.25 for "solids". None on the shelf used over 1.25 per flush. Our cheapo $68 toilet is a 1.25 gal per flush. My math is probably rusty but I come up with 4 flushes to equal 5 gallons so 3 flushes for safety (although my tank calculator shows 6 gallons for a "tank" that is 3 inches in diameter and 180 inches in length).

ol trunt 08-26-2014 08:30 PM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
All right, Enough potti talk for now. Where you and your friend heading out to? Will you remember to take your camera? Love, Mom :lol:

bansil 08-27-2014 04:22 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
outer banks in NC...and always have the picture machine with me :mrgreen:

bansil 08-27-2014 04:28 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
cheater valves...ahhh...so why vent toilet thru roof?

couldn't I just install one of these at toilet under floor at the top (under skirt)?

so toilet flange, 12 inch drop with vent, then curve to 3 inch long pipe, this should put the vent about 2 ft above mainline

turf 08-27-2014 06:45 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
i've never used a AAV, but i think they need to be above the water line of the toilet..... otherwise it would just be another drain opening.

venting through the roof also lets gas escape from your holding tank (3" pipe) to keep the smell out of your cab.

bansil 08-27-2014 07:54 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by turf
i've never used a AAV, but i think they need to be above the water line of the toilet..... otherwise it would just be another drain opening.

venting through the roof also lets gas escape from your holding tank (3" pipe) to keep the smell out of your cab.

not sure, if they work under a kitchen or bathroom sink inside your house, then it should be fine used under the floor and shouldn't leak gas out....right :?

water drops a foot past the vent intersection and flows down through 3" pipe, and the vent goes up a foot plus...should keep liquid out

gosh my brain...I feel like I have chemo brain today :lol:

lornaschinske 08-27-2014 08:03 AM

Re: PLUMBING QUESTION, VENT RELATED
 
A Cheader/Cheater/Schrader valve is a Air ADMITTANCE valve. A one way valve that allows air to only travel in ONE direction which is into the pipe, not out. Any holding tank, fresh, grey or black, must allow air to flow both ways as the tank must be able to expell the air the liquid displaces as well as allow the intake of air for when the liquid leaves the tank.

You need to vent not only your holding tanks but your drain lines. Air must be able to enter the main drain between the P-trap and the main drain.

Is the sewer side at the toilet or at the galley sink?


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