2003 t444e international 3800 fuel system

[jtlynch74]

Hello my bus has had a hard time starting since we put new fuel in it since buying it. It has struggled to start since I got new fuel this summer. I went to start it and it would not start this time. I changed the fuel filters and I opted to drain the fuel filter housing.

Now with a replaced fuel filter and fuel water seperstor. My housing is drained and I am not getting fuel in there by the push button on the housing. Nor is it self priming with the key cycling.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm about to get a Jerry can of diesel and try filling the housing.

It did run since replaced the filter but it ran what was left in the engine and died.

My batteries are new within a few months but with me trying to start it they are draining on the attempts. It's is a 3 battery 12 volt system.

Thankyou.

I do hear clicks when I cycle the key. It's about 4 clicks 2 in the front and 2 in the back.

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

how much fuel is in the tank?
do you have access to an air compressor and some rags?

 

[jtlynch74]

It is the fullest I've had it since ownership. Pretty much plumb full. Yeah I have a compressor and rags.

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

wrap a rag or several around your air hose.
enough to stick the hose into the fuel fill neck and sealish it, loosen the line leaving the fuel filter and pressurize the tank and see if you can force fuel to that point if so close it and move down the line to see where the blockage is.
pull the fuel fill cap and have someone turn the key switch and see if you can hear the pump come on.
just ideas.

 

[nikitis]

I believe even that later model 3800 still uses a mechanical pump which operates on the cam lobe.

 

[jtlynch74]

That sounds wild but I can try. Yeah it's only the 2 filters I replaced in the system. But the systems probably dry from the tank pickup line to the injectors. The bowls empty.

 

[jtlynch74]

So it operates while the engine is cranking? I read they self prime but I don't see any indication that fuel is moving.

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

then definitely try to pressurize the tank and try to fill the filter.
if that works then move to the line feeding the cam driven pump then to the feed line after the pump.
i put an RV cam in an engine years ago and could not keep a mechanical fuel pump working the cam lobe was just deep enough that the wrist pin of the fuel pump kept breaking.
3 pumps on the side of the road it got an electric pump on a toggle.

 

[nikitis]

I think that's why @Jolly Roger bus 223 suggested there was a block in the fuel line.

Those mechanical pumps last longer than the newer designs that came out at that time but they still do go bad. It could be the pump, but less likely. Self priming is due to engine cranking, it pumps fuel as the engine cranks over.

So it's more likely there is a blockage in the fuel line somewhere. You may need to crank it over a lot and if that doesn't work, you may have to disconnect lines and blow air through them.

 

[jtlynch74]

Okay I will attempt using a compressor to help move the fuel along the system. And monitor for fuel moving. Thankyou guys I will reply with results tomorrow probably about to run some errands. I appreciate it.

It is one of those blue fuel bowls with the spin on cap filter. And it has a push button on the bottom front but it doesn't really do any priming or moving of fuel.

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

not blow air in them pressurize the fuel tank and force the fuel to where it should be and if you cant get it then you know where to start looking for blockage or bad foot valve/check valve that allowed the fuel to drain back when the filters were off but even if the pump is good it will help to force fuel to it and or through it to give it a better chance and less wear on the batteries.

 

[jtlynch74]

I understand. I'll have to get some nozzle for my compressor but basically stuff that and some rags at the fill up and try to pressurize it up and into those lines and filters. I'll try to.

 

[BamaBus]

Set your regulator to 5psi. Don't over pressurize. Look for air leaks in the lines if no fuel in bowl. It's like you can't pull a vacuum on a cracked straw!

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

just pull your quick connect off and yes as mentioned set your pressure.
if fuel can leak out on a line or fitting then air can get in.
sorry i didnt think about pressure i usually have a nitrogen bottle with me that i can carry out as needed.
i used to work in mud holes or farm fields in the middle of can barely get to when i was working on diesels alot.
now its just me and my old 8.2 that doesnt get off of gravel roads at the worst.
maybe a mini ex if in a bind but lately my company rents the equipment so its just a phone call and passing the mechanic a wrench as needed to help.

 

[jtlynch74]

I got it started. I pulled some diesel out of the tank and filled my water seperator, filter, and rock screen. A few tries and some light sprays of ether got it going. It started running on its own about the third attempt.

Thanks for everyone's help. Note to others, opt to not drain the filter housing if and when you switch your fuel filter on top.

Some do believe that it's unsafe to run unfiltered diesel. Which kept me weary but screw it I need some fuel and don't wanna go to town.

 

[jtlynch74]

However does anyone know why it would struggle to start like it's lacking fuel after sitting for a week or two? Should I look for leaks on the fuel system? Or could it have just been dirty filters and new fuel. Regulators?

 

[nikitis]

Probably just need to run it for an hour. These buses don't like to sit. Gets the fluid going to actually drive it. If you still have issues after doing that could be issues with crud in the tank re-clogging things up.

Once you get her cranked again go for a drive somewhere.

 

[jtlynch74]

I went back out to start it and see if it did better but it's about the same.

I have a crank no start situation. It won't fire up on its own. I've noticed this issue since I put new fuel in it a couple months back. So I've changed the filters and seperator. But I'm still experiencing this crank no start situation. It's just had a harder time starting each time since and now it just won't fire by itself. I'm trying to figure what could the fuel have effected to do this. Doesn't seem like a cam sensor would drop off like that.

I've read on the icp, the CPR, and the ipc?
Someone has mentioned that the internationals have the mechanical fuel pump so I don't know if it would prime with the key switches on or cranking. Idk I'm just trying to get a point of view on where to start if any one has suggestions.

Will have to go pick up a fuel pressure tester.

 

[Bjorkinman]

Sounds like your fuel check valve could be bad and is allowing fuel to drain back to the tank after you let it sit for a period. The check valve is supposed to allow fuel (or air/or water) to travel in only one direction.