2006 DT466 long start

[Idaho Mike]

Post #23 above, item # 17 on the diagram.... Cartridge check valve

I would suspect either this valve is worn, dirty or maybe you installed it wrong???
This would be my first suspect.

I'm gonna go real old skool & broke down in BFE....

The output of the filter housing, remove the output line and plug up the housing output.
Pump up the prime pump....does it hold pressure or does it drop quickly?

Down and dirty way of getting a quick answer....who knows maybe your housing is internally cracked ??/ far fetched but this is troubleshooting... this might help verify if the check ball and cartridge check valve are working properly.

Copy that, I'll check it in the morning

 

[Idaho Mike]

Copy that, I'll check it in the morning

It's a single wall, can't be internally cracked unless it's next to a fuel exit port!

 

[ewo1]

I neglected to mention, if there was some way that on the output of the filter housing, if you can attach a Schrader valve somehow, that would let you actually measure the pressure and monitor it as well...for testing purposes.

 

[Idaho Mike]

after thinking on this, I'll bet it's that check valve by the pump, the fuel must be draining back into the tank. When I get to the truck I'll pop the top on the cartridge and see if there's any fuel in it, I'm hoping thats it...
I can't find the part numbers for these 2 check valves, I would rather they be replaced..

 

[PorchDog]

The modification outlined in this video by Ross Taylor might help diagnose or fix an issue as far as fuel coming from the tank. Losing prime after opening up the fuel system where there is no "in tank" fuel pump causes a lot of problems...Just a thought.

 

[Idaho Mike]

The modification outlined in this video by Ross Taylor might help diagnose or fix an issue as far as fuel coming from the tank. Losing prime after opening up the fuel system where there is no "in tank" fuel pump causes a lot of problems...Just a thought.

is there an inline check valve before the filter cartridge as well on this year? 2006 4300 DT466

 

[ewo1]

The modification outlined in this video by Ross Taylor might help diagnose or fix an issue as far as fuel coming from the tank. Losing prime after opening up the fuel system where there is no "in tank" fuel pump causes a lot of problems...Just a thought.

very helpful video!!!

 

[ewo1]

If you can't find that cartridge check valve, maybe you can get away with installing an external check valve and installing it on the input of the fuel filter assembly. this would prevent any drain back to the tank.

 

[PorchDog]

is there an inline check valve before the filter cartridge as well on this year? 2006 4300 DT466

Ross Taylor added that check valve for his priming set up. I doubt the factory installed a check valve between the tank and the primary fuel filter.

 

[ewo1]

I think installing a permanent check valve on the fuel filter input would be really helpful now and in the future as it will easily allow one to determine if the fault is before or after the filter assembly. mayabe that was the purpose of the internal cartridge check valve?

 

[Idaho Mike]

The internal one is a real PITA to get to plus it's held in place with a wire circlip that has nothing to get a hold of to take it out to replace the backflow preventer it has an O-ring to make the seal. an external would be the way to go. I Checked mine and don't think thats the problem. Also checked the ball valve at the bottom of the canister and it works just fine. Gonna put it back together and see what happens. Getting pretty good at taking it out cept those rubber fuel line grommets won't take much more abuse.

 

[Idaho Mike]

Just read on another forum that one of my injectors could be leaking, if that's the case would the fuel end up in the oil if it goes into the cylinder and past the rings??
I did change out the injectors last fall, I made sure the torque was correct on them and the oil rail..

 

[cessna175]

good afternoon, it seems as though this problem is lingering. I do know that I had various fuel problems with my diesels that sat with out running them for a while. It turned out to be the no good bio-diesel pump fuel. $6000, 2 injector pump overhauls, 12 injector overhauls, and a lot of labor. now I only use non-bio diesel that I buy from a fueling co. that services construction and farm equipment. Problem solved. I filled a glass pickle jar with diesel from the Shell station, put the lid on it, let it sit for just a few days, and it had about 3/8" of mud in the bottom of that jar. that mud will partially plug pumps and injectors, as well as settle in your tank. when emulsified, it passes through the filters and ends up in your pumps and injectors. Your long start could certainly be caused from that if its taking a long time to pump up enough pressure to force it through the injectors and light off the engine.

 

[Idaho Mike]

good afternoon, it seems as though this problem is lingering. I do know that I had various fuel problems with my diesels that sat with out running them for a while. It turned out to be the no good bio-diesel pump fuel. $6000, 2 injector pump overhauls, 12 injector overhauls, and a lot of labor. now I only use non-bio diesel that I buy from a fueling co. that services construction and farm equipment. Problem solved. I filled a glass pickle jar with diesel from the Shell station, put the lid on it, let it sit for just a few days, and it had about 3/8" of mud in the bottom of that jar. that mud will partially plug pumps and injectors, as well as settle in your tank. when emulsified, it passes through the filters and ends up in your pumps and injectors. Your long start could certainly be caused from that if its taking a long time to pump up enough pressure to force it through the injectors and light off the engine.

Howdy Cessna 175... The fuel is not very old and no sludge in the canister when I drained it. The issue is losing pressure after priming.

 

[cessna175]

Howdy Idaho Mike, just curious, besides fuel lines, is there any other components between the injector pump and tank besides the engine driven pump/electric inline pump?

 

[cessna175]

Oh almost forgot to mention, every diesel I've seen has a return line for excessive fuel pressure beyond what it takes to supply the injectors. maybe your injector pump is releasing pressure prematurely causing the issue. Just a thought.

 

[Idaho Mike]

Howdy Idaho Mike, just curious, besides fuel lines, is there any other components between the injector pump and tank besides the engine driven pump/electric inline pump?

a water detector sensor, a fuel pressure sensor, neither of which leak. Both are on the outside of the canister.

 

[Idaho Mike]

well, I ended up taking the canister all apart again and cleaning every inch, orifice, nook and cranny, pulled the oil rail and checked each injector seal, replaced rail seals again, torqued everything down, primed up and bled the system, did not bolt down the valve cover, prayed for 3 minutes, crossed my fingers and cranked away, no start. Checked for a dash code and got the one posted, what ever it say's, went home and made another vodka tonic

 

[ewo1]

Info taken from EGES-270-1
DIAGNOSTIC/TROUBLESHOOTING MANUAL
International® DT 466, DT 570, and HT 570
DIESEL ENGINE

Fault Detection / Management
The ECM automatically performs diagnostic
self-checks. The ECM self-test includes memory,
programming, and internal power supply checks.
The ECM will detect internal Diagnostic Trouble
Codes (DTCs) depending on the severity of the
problem. Additionally, the ECM provides DTC
management strategies to permit limited engine and
vehicle operation.
When DTCs 613, 614, 621, 622, and 623 are set by
the ECM, the amber ENGINE lamp will be illuminated.

DTC 613 – ECM / IDM software not compatible
Condition: ECM / Injector Drive Module (IDM) software is incompatible
Symptoms: Possible no start – low power
Possible Causes: Field replacement ECM or IDM mismatch
Actions: Program ECM or IDM. May require ECM or IDM replacement.

 

[ewo1]

we've reached the max level of my knowledge with this code.... I really do not know what tips to share at this point. Maybe someone here can chime in. I'm sure someone here has seen this before.

What about your fuel not holding pressure. Is that fixed?