2008 Thomas Saf-T-Liner with Cat C7-210

[TheForkInTheRoad]

Recently acquired 2008 Thomas Saf-T-Liner with Cat C7-210 and Allison 2500 PTS.

I bought it without doing my due diligence and have found issues with the fluids. Coolant was down by 6 gallons, Oil is over full and transmission fluid does not register on stick when hot.

I'd like to change the oil and filter - The bus says it has 169k. Bus came from Texas Dealer and was from a Texas school district. I have no service records.

Where does one find what type/weight oil should go into this engine and quantity?

I was thinking of taking an oil sample and having it analyzed but not sure if that is worth the money or not.

When the bus is started and idling it does not smoke. The engine oil is black and black can be and does not smell burnt or like diesel to me.

I am thinking an oil change no matter what should be done at least to get the oil level back to correct level. Perhaps after than and running it it will overfill again.. if so could that be due to diesel getting into the crankcase? If it were coolant wouldn't the oil be some other color that black?

I am a grasshopper with the thought of Skoolie conversion let alone anything diesel. So be kind Any help advice, etc is much appreciated in advance.

 

[bigskypc50]

Greetings! I my self just got a new rig with a c7s. Take a look at your engine serial and see if you have a cat c7 or cat c7s.

I myself would correct the fluid levels before doing anything more. If the oil is slightly overfull don’t panic too much. If it’s majorly overfilled then you might have issues. Good news is most everything you need is at Walmart. Go get 7 gallons of the mobile 1300 15/40 oil and for coolent get the final charge cat ec1 coolent. Go to Napa and get your new oil filter and for the trans get something called Allison transynd fluid and only that.

You will like need a strap wrench for the filter and my drain plug was over an inch. Can’t remember the exact size sorry.

If oil was in the coolant you would have what looks like coffee with lots of creamer in it. It’s likely you have an coolent leaking somewhere mine has the egr cooler leaking.


Once you get everything fluid wise fixed take it for a good drive. 5/10 miles stop check everything and then maybe 25-50 miles get it good and warmed up. See what problems appear.

Recently acquired 2008 Thomas Saf-T-Liner with Cat C7-210 and Allison 2500 PTS.

I bought it without doing my due diligence and have found issues with the fluids. Coolant was down by 6 gallons, Oil is over full and transmission fluid does not register on stick when hot.

I'd like to change the oil and filter - The bus says it has 169k. Bus came from Texas Dealer and was from a Texas school district. I have no service records.

Where does one find what type/weight oil should go into this engine and quantity?

I was thinking of taking an oil sample and having it analyzed but not sure if that is worth the money or not.

When the bus is started and idling it does not smoke. The engine oil is black and black can be and does not smell burnt or like diesel to me.

I am thinking an oil change no matter what should be done at least to get the oil level back to correct level. Perhaps after than and running it it will overfill again.. if so could that be due to diesel getting into the crankcase? If it were coolant wouldn't the oil be some other color that black?

I am a grasshopper with the thought of Skoolie conversion let alone anything diesel. So be kind Any help advice, etc is much appreciated in advance.

 

[dbsoundman]

Totally agree with big sky. 15w-40 should be fine for oil weight. Torque the oil drain pan volt to 50 ft-lbs! In terms of the transmission check it a few times, make sure the trans is all warmed up and engine is running. Sometimes the dip sticks lie.

 

[TheForkInTheRoad]

Take a look at your engine serial and see if you have a cat c7 or cat c7s.

If the oil is slightly overfull don’t panic too much. If it’s majorly overfilled then you might have issues.

I put a request into Thomas for the bus and specs and they provided the following: Engine Serial number is WAX54872 and Transmission 6310689605

The school district that ordered it had the following on the order form: Allison 2500 PTS Series Transmission - CAT C7-210LT(HDX)

Attached is what the dipstick looks like when warm and not wiped and the wiped.

Regarding the coolant - the overflow was empty - I added 6 gallons of fluid I got from Napa for a Cat engine. That brought it just up to the low line in the overflow. I ran the engine for a good time until the overflow was nice and hot - the color never changed - remained coolant red.

 

[bigskypc50]

Ok so you have the pre dpf cat c7. That is significantly overfilled. So still not time to worry maybe someone added to much oil. Don’t run the engine anymore until you correct the overfilled the problem. (A)the crank maybe foaming the oil and not providing proper lubrication or (b) there is something in the oil fuel water who knows doing nothing good for the engine. Get the oil drained out and take a good look smell. Feel the old oil vs the new with your fingers something is going on. When you first pull the drain plug pay close attention water etc will drain first

 

[TheForkInTheRoad]

Ok so you have the pre dpf cat c7. That is significantly overfilled. So still not time to worry maybe someone added to much oil. Don’t run the engine anymore until you correct the overfilled the problem. (A)the crank maybe foaming the oil and not providing proper lubrication or (b) there is something in the oil fuel water who knows doing nothing good for the engine. Get the oil drained out and take a good look smell. Feel the old oil vs the new with your fingers something is going on. When you first pull the drain plug pay close attention water etc will drain first

Dummy me ran it for quite some time when I was trying to get the coolant filled back up. Given I am in Minnesota and if I try to change the oil now when the outside temps are 20s it will be slow going....Is it fair to say I should run it for a bit to get the oil warm?

Lastly, if I were to do an oil sample for analysis - does anyone have a suggested company to send it off too?

 

[bigskypc50]

If it was my rig I would not run it. But I am overly cautious. If it’s that cold I feel ya I am in Montana going to hit 25 below next week. Keep your oil inside your house it will flow so much better into the engine. Start with 5 gallons in and start checking it I always pre fill my filters. My ended up needing 7 gallons counting the filter.

If you want to do a sample get it mid drain and I know a lot use blackstone labs.

 

[dbsoundman]

You mentioned filling the coolant overflow…I don’t think these buses have a fill line on that reservoir? Mine is really hard to see but my understanding is you only fill into the radiator until you can see coolant in the radiator sight glass, the plastic reservoir is only for overflow and doesn’t need to be filled. I’ve been running that way for 3 years with no issues. Am I dumb?

Edit: noticed this is an HDX, I have an MVP so they may differ in this regard.

 

[TheForkInTheRoad]

If it was my rig I would not run it. But I am overly cautious. If it’s that cold I feel ya I am in Montana going to hit 25 below next week. Keep your oil inside your house it will flow so much better into the engine. Start with 5 gallons in and start checking it I always pre fill my filters. My ended up needing 7 gallons counting the filter.

If you want to do a sample get it mid drain and I know a lot use blackstone labs.

I will plan not running it again till I get the oil changed. I will get a sample too and I did request a Blackstone sample kit.

The photo of the book you shared, what book is that if you don't mind me asking?

 

[bigskypc50]

The photo of the book you shared, what book is that if you don't mind me asking?

That is from my Cat C7 Owners manual. My newest bus happen to come with all it's paper work including build - line sheets.

 

[TheForkInTheRoad]

That is from my Cat C7 Owners manual. My newest bus happen to come with all it's paper work including build - line sheets.

That is nice you have all of the documentation.

I see a bunch of those manuals listed on eBay but not sure which year I should be going for.. I know I should get C7 one that mentions the WAX engine but not sure what year... I can find 2005/2006 but nothing for 2008 or later.

The bus is a 2008 but not sure if the engine is the same year or not, etc.

 

[TheForkInTheRoad]

This is what documentation that Thomas shared with me after inquiring:

 

[bigskypc50]

Your engine is not a C7S. The S is 08 or later emissions engine. So you can get a 05/06 manual. And it should match your engine

 

[TheForkInTheRoad]

I found this one on eBay and ordered it.. Seems it may have the right combo for my engine.

I know this topic is for the C7 but I am also curious about the transmission.

On the build sheet it lists like this "ALLISON 2500 PTS SERIES TRANSMISSION - CAT C7-210LT (HDX)"

Is the 2500 PTS a standard Allison transmission or some sort of remanufactured transmission?

I put the transmission serial number into the Allison site and it comes back as an Allison 2500 PTS.

I did find some manuals on eBay too but nothing calling out 2500 PTS but rather 2000 series. I am guessing the 2000 series covers it but I am not sure.

 

[shorthair-SKO]

You can warm the engine with a small bbq, slide it under the pan after the briquettes quit flaming. In a couple of hours it should be nice and warm. Use caution if you have any fuel or oil leaks.

 

[sportyrick]

Do you have a block heater?? If not then a flood light or heat lamp works good right on the pan.

 

[TheForkInTheRoad]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions to heat up the oil. I was going to attempt the oil change this weekend but we are now in another winter advisory and temp highs are in the negative single digits..... So will have to wait till it warms up into the 20-30's....

While I wait for the right conditions I was going to ask a few things.

The engine serial is WAX54872 - The current filters on it are Fuel Filter FF5324 and I believe the Oil Filter is LF3973

If I am not mistaken I think I need the following filters and plan on getting the Caterpillar brand:

Oil Filter - 1R-0716

Fuel Filter - 1R-0749

Fuel Water Separator - 175-2949

Do these sound correct?

I can easily see the oil and fuel filter but I have no idea what and where a Fuel Water Separator is on this bus - let alone how to change it and what tools are needed.

Should any of these filters be pre-filled?

 

[TheForkInTheRoad]

I am also looking into what I need for the transmission and from what I have read and inputted into the Allison website has me perplexed.....


Thomas sent me the spec/build sheet.

Says the transmission serial is: 6310698605

Build sheet says:

• 
  ALLISON 2500 PTS SERIES TRANSMISSION (HDX)
  ALLISON 2500 PTS SERIES TRANSMISSION - CAT C7-210LT (HDX)

When I go to My Allison Transmission and input that number is spits back out - 6310698605 - 1000HS

So is this a 1000HS and not what build sheet says ( Allison 2500 PTS )

Seems in any event perhaps the correct filter is Allison 29539579

 

[BamaBus]

I question the accuracy of the information in post #12. I would check the serial numbers on the engine and transmission before committing to any part purchases.

Is the RegID supposed to be the last seven numbers in the vin? IDK

 

[TheForkInTheRoad]

I question the accuracy of the information in post #12. I would check the serial numbers on the engine and transmission before committing to any part purchases.

Is the RegID supposed to be the last seven numbers in the vin? IDK

Good point... the engine number matches. I have not checked the transmission.