2018 Saf-T-Liner C2 Roof Raise

[Melthouse]

Any comments on raising the roof on a 2018 Saf-T-Liner C2?

 

[ewo1]

Any comments on raising the roof on a 2018 Saf-T-Liner C2?

Glad you asked.. I only have one comment...Please do yourself a favor and secure insurance on your bus before you make any cuts.
It is tough enough as it is to get insured and even tougher with a roof raise!

Other than that go for it.. I did!

 

[Melthouse]

Glad you asked.. I only have one comment...Please do yourself a favor and secure insurance on your bus before you make any cuts.
It is tough enough as it is to get insured and even tougher with a roof raise!

Other than that go for it.. I did!

Thanks!
do you have images of the process or the finnish bus? I am afraid of cutting the upper structural beam.

 

[ewo1]

Thanks!
do you have images of the process or the finnish bus? I am afraid of cutting the upper structural beam.

Here is My BUILDTHREAD roof raise starts at post #13.

My bus is an international and the body itself might be different from yours.

I haven't had the chance to work on a Thomas body but from what I have read here on the forum some bus bodies (thomas ???) do not go straight up and down (linear) when viewed from 20-30 feet in back of the bus.

Some bodies actually come in on an angle right at the bottom of the windows whereas International bodies are straight.

what this means is that you cannot cut your bus ribs at mid window. You have to cut the ribs below the window line.

There are others here who have run into this and maybe they can explain better than I can.

 

[Melthouse]

The 2018 Thomas bus is made by robots provided by Mercedes-Benz Dlamier and is point-welded in many places, especially in the massive structural beams. Not like the old Thomas buses with a gizillion rivets. I appreciate your feedback; however, our buses are from different generations and built using very different methods.

 

[ewo1]

Those pictures show rivets and a screw.... not much has changed over the years...
Raising the roof is not hard to do you just first got to be safety conscious so it don't fall on your head and you got to understand lines, how to keep things straight.
whatever questions you have I'm sure someone here has an answer...

Is your bus reg/titled in Mexico or U.S.A. ??

Just wondering what the insurance market for a skoolie would be in Mexico.
Can you drive with Mexican Insurance in the U.S. or do you have to get a special policy for that like we do when we go south?

 

[Kentucky Dreaming]

The 2018 Thomas bus is made by robots provided by Mercedes-Benz Dlamier and is point-welded in many places, especially in the massive structural beams. Not like the old Thomas buses with a gizillion rivets. I appreciate your feedback; however, our buses are from different generations and built using very different methods.

Not sure what you mean. You talk about welds but don't show any welds in your photos. You are showing rivets and screws above the windows.

Ewo is correct about Thomas buses having slanted walls. Starting at the bottom of the windows, the walls slant in 6 degrees per side. That is why it would be easier to make the cut below the windows and lift everything from there up.

 

[Melthouse]

if you know of a 2018 Thomas C2 videos, please share. So far I have not found any. Regards

 

[Melthouse]

The bus has been imported and plated in Mexico.

 

[DeMac]

Mercedes-Benz Dlamier

The 2018 Thomas bus is made by robots provided by Mercedes-Benz Dlamier ...... Not like the old Thomas buses .....

---------------------------

Welcome to the Insane Asylum

MBD, who?
No such organization.
Any other facts mistaken/misalligned? Likely.

Just so ya know:
The Mercedes-Benz Group AG (previously named Daimler-Benz, DaimlerChrysler and Daimler) is a German multinational automotive corporation headquartered in Stuttgart, Baden-Württemberg, Germany. It is one of the world's leading car manufacturers. Daimler-Benz was formed with the merger of Benz & Cie., the world's oldest car company, and Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft in 1926. The company was renamed DaimlerChrysler upon the acquisition of American automobile manufacturer Chrysler Corporation in 1998, and was again renamed Daimler AG upon divestment of Chrysler in 2007. In 2021, Daimler AG was the second-largest German automaker and the sixth-largest worldwide by production. In February 2022, Daimler was renamed Mercedes-Benz Group as part of a transaction that spun-off its commercial vehicle segment as an independent company, Daimler Truck.



Just sayin', no such company named "Mercedes-Benz Dlamier" as you wrote above. Elementary discrepancies may cause a person to consider if the writer is well educated about the rest of their claim.

Ex; Davidson-Harley Motorcycles

Me personnally, I've NOT deconstructed both & therfore have not witnessed any differences in the construction of the 2007 C2 and the 2018 C2. Ergo, I cannot testify. I am a Mercedes-Benz owner, though


Thomas Built Buses, a subsidiary of Daimler Truck North America, produces its own chassis for some of its buses. However, they have also worked with other manufacturers too.


What differences (specifically) have you witnessed when you were comparing the two?(old C2 vs new C2)

 

[ewo1]

The 2018 Thomas bus is made by robots provided by Mercedes-Benz Dlamier and is point-welded in many places, especially in the massive structural beams. Not like the old Thomas buses with a gizillion rivets. I appreciate your feedback; however, our buses are from different generations and built using very different methods.

Robots or not, yes there are some differences in the way our generational busses are built but essentially they are still the same.
Yours though was probably built with more adhesive holding it together as compared to our older busses. Thomas did adopt a different way of keeping it all together but here we talk about taking it apart and turning it into something new...

What's essentially different between new (yours) and old (mine) is that the older busses don't have glue keeping it together. the adhesive might be great today but let's see the results say 20 years down the road. all adhesive has a life span before it finally begins to weaken.


you mentioned "structural beams" the two biggest being the actual frame of the bus. The main structural assembly is the rib cage of the bus. Other than how the ribs are attached together, super glue maybe ???
The ribs cage is nothing special, mild steel formed into a hat channel shape, which is what your cutting and adding onto in order to do a roof raise, nothing special or out of the ordinary as when compared to our older busses!


then you got all that emissions stuff on a 2018 bus. Me, all I have is an EGR.


Before you begin cutting any wires you better make sure to know if you have a BCM on your bus, which your more than likely do, and be aware of how cutting /removing wires can and will affect the operation of the BCM.

Well now that we got our differences all settled, ask away. we're all willing to give a helping hand, let's just keep it on a positive note and lets move forward!

Post a pic of the rear of the bus, standing 20 ft away. We'll be able to tell you if the body is slanted in or not.

 

[ewo1]

Threads on Thomas roof raise:

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f10/thomas-roof-raise-32775.html
see post # 10

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/thomas-roof-raise-20894.html

 

[Melthouse]

Hi there
The main difference is the rivets vs. the point welds in the skirt of the roof. The 2018 has no rivets but is welded to the frame. Also, separating the skin of the roof by the diver area without cutting the structural long beam will be a disaster. We have moved away from lifting the roof and keeping it simple and stupid.


We have already cancelled all emission controls and the bus road from El Paso to San Lucas with no issues.

We are not cutting any cables, and so far, I have disconnected the battery bank to avoid any shorts.

I will keep you posted, This is my first conversion and i can use all the help you can provide. BTW, thanks for the pdf. I learned its contents while removing all the ceiling and wall panels with lots of glue.

Thanks for all the education and ideas.

 

[ewo1]

Hi there
The main difference is the rivets vs. the point welds in the skirt of the roof. The 2018 has no rivets but is welded to the frame. Also, separating the skin of the roof by the diver area without cutting the structural long beam will be a disaster. We have moved away from lifting the roof and keeping it simple and stupid.

"KISS" =sometimes, most times, is the better of options....
I hope I didn't talk you out of a roof raise, wasn't trying to do that!

I do see in the inside ceiling pic that your bus is constructed different than an Amtran is....

The roof raise metal work above the driver...I went with a roof transition instead of the flat forehead look in part because I wanted to keep that area as structurally sound as possible versus modifying the steel above and around the windshield.... and I also prefer the transition style versus flathead.

there are some wires your gonna wanna disconnect which is normal, like emergency exit alarms and maybe brake interlocks.

There is alot of experience here on those topics except that your might be one of the newest, 2018, busses here so you might be a Guinea pig!

The best way to address this is ask first...get opinions!
After every circuit you remove check and see if bus will start and go into gear.
If it doesn't start then re-connect that circuit and...

then just rinse and repeat!

keep us posted on your build! ...

So what is it like living in paradise?

I spent a couple of years living in what turned out to be my paradise, the northern coast of Honduras (La Ceiba).

Between the Florida keys and central america I prefer C.A. !

 

[ewo1]

BCM = electronic Chassis Module controller

A welcoming gift for you...

I found this doc, it is part of the Thomas bus Workbook (service manual) that talks about and shows the pinout for your BCM.

why is this handy...the wiring in the bus is multiplexed, everything goes thru the controller.



2019 Thomas Built Buses Saf-t-liner C2 Technical Service Bulletins

Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/tsb/2019/thomas-built-buses/saf_t_liner-c2/

 

[Melthouse]

So far, I have successfully disconnected the emergency and door alarms, and the transmission is still working fine. Same for the heaters of the cabin. Juis disconnected the plug, and all looks good so far... jajaja all good here.

As part of the acquisition of the bus, we got a diagnostic computer and interface. So we are in-house ready for the error codes. We also have a phenomenal mechanic on speed dial if push come to shove.

 

[-TC-]

Hot Rainy Season

So far, I have successfully disconnected the emergency and door alarms, and the transmission is still working fine. Same for the heaters of the cabin. Juis disconnected the plug, and all looks good so far... jajaja all good here.

As part of the acquisition of the bus, we got a diagnostic computer and interface. So we are in-house ready for the error codes. We also have a phenomenal mechanic on speed dial if push come to shove.

Looking good. Your demo is moving along fast. Windows & hatches have been replaced with a blue tarp. Keep up the pace & try to stay cool.

Lots builders use a big A$$ fan to help exhaust the dust & hot air. Park one in an exit door, pronto.

Like you, I personally removed all (30) of the windows from our bus. Although, only two to four at a time, to keep the creatures & weather out. I finished each day by reinstalling each with new butyl & closed cell backer rod.

Are you skinning over all of the windows or reinstalling some of them? You do have factory tint.Sweet. I may be able to offer a few tips, if you do reinstall.

Since you've already removed the hatches, now would be a great time to install a rooftop AC or Maxxair fan to use while you complete the demo work. Our first project was backyard AC.

DeMac swapped our hatch for a quality rooftop AC & powered it with an extension cord. I was able to reseal the windows, demo & rebuild in an air conditioned space. We've been able to enjoy extended stays, performing various activities, every since.

We look forward to seeing more. Stay at it & keep posting photos.

 

[shorthair-SKO]

Glad you asked.. I only have one comment...Please do yourself a favor and secure insurance on your bus before you make any cuts.
It is tough enough as it is to get insured and even tougher with a roof raise!

Other than that go for it.. I did!

Since OP is in Mexico he may have access to different insurance or underwriting procedures, but it does sound like fine advice.

 

[kidharris]

Not sure what you mean. You talk about welds but don't show any welds in your photos. You are showing rivets and screws above the windows.

Ewo is correct about Thomas buses having slanted walls. Starting at the bottom of the windows, the walls slant in 6 degrees per side. That is why it would be easier to make the cut below the windows and lift everything from there up.

Does anyone know why Thomas decided to tilt/slant the windows?

 

[#1FordFan]

Does anyone know why Thomas decided to tilt/slant the windows?

Stronger than vertical walls would be my thought.

I have a question for the OP.
Since these C2s have such a tall ceiling what is the reason for roof raise for this model bus??