5.9 24v, should I address the KDP?

[FawnaFox]

I have a first year (1998 1/2) 24v 5.9 Cummins engine in the bus, I have heard of the infamous "Killer Dowel Pin" on 12 and early 24v cummins engines, but really only on the dodge trucks, is this still a problem on busses? If so, how much does this cost to repair? How big of an issue is it?

 

[BamaBus]

My opinion is that it probably would be catastrophic and should be addressed, which I will do for my 99 (24 valve) when I get back to driving it. Kits which include the pin retainer and gaskets are in the 100-125 dollar range. The biggest part of the job is access, especially for a flat nose bus. Your dog-nose should be considerably easier if you remove the hood.

 

[fo4imtippin]

I didnt do mine. Sounds like its mostly an issue on 12v. They vibrate differently. If im doing a front main bearing or timing cover, ill add the tab.

 

[Mr P]

Sounds like its mostly an issue on 12v. They vibrate differently.

I'm interested in those claims. How did you arrive at those conclusions?

 

[fo4imtippin]

Cant cite the source at this point, but i don't think i could find one claim of a 24v person having their engine roached from a person when i was reading whether to take my timing cover off and do it preventative. I was all over google and cummins forums at the time (few years ago). Feel free to cite any claims of it being an issue for anyone running a 24v. I did however read peoples first hand experiences with the 12v doing it. I have seen and 12v and 24v run and can confirm that they shake on the mounts a bit more than the 24v.

 

[BamaBus]

THIS forum has some thoughts on the 24v killer dowel pin issue. One poster said the the vibration in a 12v was due to the 7100 pump.

 

[Mr P]

^ That site had lots of discussion, but no technical (info that I found).

As a mechanic, I've worked on one 12v to put a custom washer over the KDP as prevenative mainainence. I'm interested in the possiblity of a KDP in the 24v.

 

[FawnaFox]

^ That site had lots of discussion, but no technical (info that I found).

As a mechanic, I've worked on one 12v to put a custom washer over the KDP as prevenative mainainence. I'm interested in the possiblity of a KDP in the 24v.

I heard some earlier 24v engines had it, the ones with the VP44, (1998 to 2002..?)

 

[ewo1]

Here is a thread from a past member who "fixed" this potential issue from occurring. He posted pics and you can see in the 3rd and 4th pic how a simple little washer fixes the issue.

Cummins 12valve Killer Dowel Pin (KDP) fix

Finally MADE the time to put my mind at ease and secure the KDP - which has the potential to crack apart the Cast Aluminum Casing. This also allowed me to stop the small leak around my Crank Seal and replace my Timing Cover Seal... 4hrs and I was back on the road with my mind at ease the dreaded...

www.skoolie.net

 

[PorchDog]

I just asked a technician who worked at the Dodge dealer way back-- and he says the 24 valves had KDP issues too. That is contrary to what my brain had in it...

He said he thought the timing cover -- at least the back half toward the engine-- was the same for 12 valve and 24 valve engines...

 

[Mr P]

We need info from Cummins....

 

[Mr P]

Allow me to muddy the water....

Killer Dowel Pin (KDP) Dodge 24-valve 5.9L Cummins 1998-2002

 

[nikitis]

Wow, how do engineers in design miss such a thing?

 

[Mr P]

^ Every human has flaws. The only thing worse is an artificial intelligence....

No engine is perfect.

 

[LargeMarge-TC]

Prior to investing any more energy, I would verify you do *NOT* have the infamous '53' block.
.
Apparently, 1998-2001 53 engines are thin and tend to split.
.

53 Block FAQ and Information

 

[PorchDog]

I own a pickup with a "53" block-- wish you hadn't brought that up.... ;-(

Although-- I think most hold up OK if left in the stock low horsepower configuration.

 

[s2mikon]

I was told by a Cummins tech that the Dodge pickups with the side mounted engine mounts were the source of the failure. The industrial engines with the front trunion type mount and rear side mounts were okay. It was still a quality control issue at the factory in Brazil. It sounds plausible. Most were fine. I'm old enough to remember when Detroit Diesel began building parts for their 2 strokes in Brazil, and there were quality control issues. I personaly installed a new oil cooler housing that had a pinhole in the casting and leaked coolant out before we even started it.

 

[LargeMarge-TC]

I own a pickup with a "53" block-- wish you hadn't brought that up.... ;-(

Although-- I think most hold up OK if left in the stock low horsepower configuration.

.
Fact is, a couple years ago, we acquired a 1999 Bounder 39' pusher with a Cummins 24-valve 5.9.
It runs and does everything as designed, but instead of trusting it to get us home, let's just say we think it works better sitting immobile on the acreage as storage...
.

 

[Mr P]

I worked at a Dodge dealer "back in the day", when the 12v was phased out and the 24v with computer injection was the replacement. We never saw any problems with the 12v, and we had one guy who put 3k miles a weak on his 12v pulling a stock trailer. The only problems we saw with the 24v was the injection pump which fails due to a failing lift pump.

In summary, I'd take those engines hands down over any HEUI system engine, or emmissions laden engines. If the KDP is a possibility, take the engine apart for piece of mind. It's not a very difficult job.

 

[Bjorkinman]

If it were my bus I think I'd go ahead and do it. Come up with a list of things to do all at once and handle it on your schedule, not on the back end of a tow to a random shop nearby.