8 way wiring

[BlueBoy-SKO]

I need to know the color of wires that goes on this controller.
I could trace it down but I figured it would save me a lot of time if somebody has a photo or schematic.
I have the 8 lights figured out and the 12V ignition.
1999 BlueBird. This isn’t the original controller, I got this one on eBay. So I’m not sure if this is exactly like the one that came out.
Thanks

 

[nikitis]

Here. Rename the .doc to .pdf, then open it.

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

Here. Rename the .doc to .pdf, then open it.

That was a major help. Thanks!
Couldn’t get my Apple gadgets to read the document. But my canon printer was able to convert and print it.
I got the Ambers to work. I can get the Reds to work but the wiring is a little funky. Like the door switch has +12V when it should be a ground to activate the Reds. And there’s constant power to the air solenoid to swinging out the stop sign, but that needs further investigating. There are still two light blue wires I’m not sure what they’re supposed to do yet. But things are off to a good start.

 

[nikitis]

I haven't used the doc myself yet, but plan on it as I have the flasher device but no lights. Wuzzabus here gave me some lights and I plan to hook them up. I'm completely missing the manual door trigger which enables the ground switch to turn them on, but I can rig something up.

 

[nikitis]

Ok I have a problem with the information in this Document.

For the override switch, the diagram shows a DPST switch which I assume is the swing arm switch. In looking at my swing arm I only have what seems to be a reversed SPST switch. What I mean by reverse is that when the switch is pressed in by the arm being closed in breaks the connection. When the switch is let off by opening the arm the connections are made.

This would make sense if it were a DPST switch but mine only has two prongs for wire connections making it a SPST switch which does not make any sense whatsoever.

What I interpret is that there should be a DPST there, when I open the door the switch is let off and 12v for one of the DPST circuits feeds into the Override switch, and the other circuit on the DPST is a ground connection which feeds a ground to pin 10 which then switches from amber to red flashing.

Am I correct on this? If so then why in the bloody hell is there only a SPST switch instead?

Are there configurations I'm not aware of that use SPST switches?

I'm so confused because the diagram is nothing like how my bus is configured.

Also I'm providing a picture of a similar door from a YouTube video who has a DPST with 4 wires coming off of the switch so it would seem it is indeed supposed to be a DPST switch but from the pic from underneath you can see clearly I only have a SPST.

Also I don't seem to have a start switch to flip on the amber lights to start the process anywhere on my bus. Anyone know where the start switch should be on an old 3800?

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

See if this guy can help make sense.
Scroll down to the video where it says:
Weldon 7000 8-Lamp Flasher

http://www.busparts.com/electrical-flashers.html

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

As far as starting the cycle with the Amber’s, there has to be a momentary push button or something.

 

[nikitis]

Okay been doing more line tracing. I think I get it now.

My bus is set up for sequential flashing using pin #9. Not Pin #10. When using pin #9 you only require a SPST switch.

I also found my pin #9 wire routed under the dash. It was taped off and stuffed up there good to where I nearly couldn't find it if I werent tracing it. See first pic! I pulled them out of where they were stuffed and did a continuity test from pin 9 on the flasher to that end and bingo! Line is already there.

There is just one problem.... The hole those wires are supposed to go through was already plugged up by the LED modification I did to replace the air pressure buzzer with an LED so now I'll have to drill a new hole in the dash. In the end it will be better placed anyhow because the wiring won't be so low and I can hide it better than factory. Just more work.

So once that is finished. I have the start switch to install.

I managed to trace that wire as it was present but there is NO start switch. Wire was hanging. And taped off by Thomas. Along with the start switch wire was a full harness of additional wires which when traced back went to all of the amber and red lights. I don't know why those would lead to the middle of my dash but I can see that they are T'd off. I believe they are unused wires but are there for an optional light display to show you which lights are on or not. You know those displays that show a picture of a bus and the image of the amber and red lights actually light up to show the driver they are on. I believe that's why those are there.

As cool as it would be to upgrade my bus to include a light monitor on my old bus, there is no good location to put it. I have no more dash room for such a device, but I do have a good idea in mind to make my own monitor.

On the SPST switch mount plate, I can drill a hole in the top for a master switch, and a start switch on the top of the plate. Then on the front of the plate I could buy some old looking lights but small LEDs, and mount them to the front plate so I can visually see if the lights are on and working that way. Use lights that look like used on 1970s computers to represent the amber and red flashing.

Additionally, I may add a master override switch as well so I can just turn on the red lights even with the door closed as an upgrade.

But I believe I've identified all of the wiring my bus has and have an understanding of what was never installed in my bus and can build it to make this project work now.

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

It takes a while to figure out what all the wires do. Looks like you got it under control.
My low air pressure buzzer is like super annoying! It is definitely getting replaced. I like your LED light. Even if I put a light in I still want an audible warning.

 

[AlphaHare]

I'm curious why you want to hook up the lights. Many (most?) states require that you disable them if not a school bus?

 

[nikitis]

It takes a while to figure out what all the wires do. Looks like you got it under control.
My low air pressure buzzer is like super annoying! It is definitely getting replaced. I like your LED light. Even if I put a light in I still want an audible warning.

I have a switch so I can use both. I leave it on audible normally, but if I decide to work on the engine or do electrical testing I don't want to wait for pressure to build up or tuning the engine with ServiceMaxx or diagnosing an issue, I don't need the confounded thing beeping in my ear constantly. I also don't believe in wearing out my air pressure system sooner just for short diagnostic testing. So I flip a switch and it goes to a "Visual" Bright LED to remind me low air pressure and I need to flip the switch back to audible if I'm actually going to drive. It's a pretty simple mod you can do it. Many on here will advise against it because they believe you may forget, but that's impossible if you do the mod yourself because it'll be front and centered, bright, and will instantly remind you to switch to audible.

I will say if you go to sell the bus you should "Undo" the mod so that you aren't liable. Nobody else will be driving my bus, and if they did somehow, the light will be labeled stating low air pressure so they still can't reasonably miss it. Also the law clearly states you can have a visual indicator over an audible one.

I'm curious why you want to hook up the lights. Many (most?) states require that you disable them if not a school bus?

Because I want it to look like a bus on the outside. Kind of the whole reason I want a skoolie over an RV. I won't use them in public but may be fun to do with my kids on my private land. Also it's a challenge for me because my warning light system was never fully installed by Thomas to begin with, so at a personal level for me, it's kind of like I'm giving the old gal what she never had but was supposed to have. I know it's sentimental, but I still want it.

Additionally, Since I'm kind of building half of the wiring setup myself anyway, I plan to add a hidden kill switch to disable the whole warning light system anyway in case there's ever any question on "Are they disabled?". I hit the switch and the whole system will fail to work.

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

I'm curious why you want to hook up the lights. Many (most?) states require that you disable them if not a school bus?

Yes, 8 way lights are to be disabled. A switch or pulled fuse would take care of that. School buses have a master switch which disables the 8 way lights, but I would put in another switch that wasn’t readily accessible or seen.
under no circumstances are you allowed to use the eight way lights for anything, other than picking up or dropping off students ONLY. Even if you have a bus full of kids and you have to pull off the side of the road, you still cannot use the 8 way Ambers! Or if you’re stopped for another bus and they are picking up students, you cannot use the 8 way lights. You can and it is a good idea to use your four-way flashers. Even at the schools, dropping off or picking up students you still do not use the 8 way lights. I don’t think you’ll get a ticket but the other drivers will tell you to shut them off. Too distracting.
Okey-dokey?

 

[Albatross]

I'm curious why you want to hook up the lights. Many (most?) states require that you disable them if not a school bus?

Only speaking for myself, but I would personally use the existing wiring to the lights to change them over to either acting as a high-visibility brake or turn signals, or to change over the ambers in the front as a simple white light for off-road use, or possibly to add some whites in the back as reverse lights. It would all depend on where I'm at, and how I'm using it.

 

[desrtdog]

Only speaking for myself, but I would personally use the existing wiring to the lights to change them over to either acting as a high-visibility brake or turn signals, or to change over the ambers in the front as a simple white light for off-road use, or possibly to add some whites in the back as reverse lights. It would all depend on where I'm at, and how I'm using it.

Ditto. That’s what I did - swapped the amber and red locations (ambers outboard, reds inboard)…hooked up ambers front and rear as additional turn signals; rear reds as additional brake lights…both functions can be separately enabled/disabled. Front reds are in place but not wired.

Might as well have something that’s useful…

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

i changed them to white LED front and back the idea was i could use them when pulling into campground and trying to get parked when its dark or trying to hook up a trailer at nite.
yes they are switched.

 

[cadillackid]

a momentary switch starts the cycle with the ambers..


override is used to go straight to reds with the door still closed... normally reds only activate when the door is open.

 

[nikitis]

a momentary switch starts the cycle with the ambers..


override is used to go straight to reds with the door still closed... normally reds only activate when the door is open.

Yup, states that in the PDF.

I think I got it figured out for the wiring it all up. Just got to go do it.

I may end up just fixing the Amber and Red warning 8 way lights back to factory standard, and additionally adding a light bar between them for visibility at campgrounds at night or something.

Why not have both?

 

[cadillackid]

Yup, states that in the PDF.

I think I got it figured out for the wiring it all up. Just got to go do it.

I may end up just fixing the Amber and Red warning 8 way lights back to factory standard, and additionally adding a light bar between them for visibility at campgrounds at night or something.

Why not have both?

many states require the school lights be disabled from their normal fashion... that said none of us in the vintage bus groups have ever been asked about it.. i dont have thenm ion 2 of my busses but old superior does.. and they are iconic in nature on those busses so ive made the system work again..



we had one occcasion when on a bus caravan where we used the reds on one bus.... and the cops thanked us for it even though stating it was technically not legal it probably saved at least some headaches and maybe even prevented injuries...



as we travelled a car broke down ahead of us at night in the fog... it went over the hill and quit right in the iddle of the road... all of its lights went out and it apparently when into park by itself and was Dead.. our lead bus saw it happen so he radioed all of us to slow down... we pulled off and he left his bus with the strobe and reds on to warn traffic while we disengaged the car's auto park brake and got it into N to push it off the road.. traffic coming over that hill wouldve never stopped.... at the tail end of it all a sheriff stopped by and saw us pushing the car into a farm lane driveway..



he thanked us for our help and safety. but did mention that using the school lights wasnt technically legal but said life is more important ..



thats the only time we have ever used a set of reds outside of a bus meet in a parking lot



we have used our strobe lights when we caravan at night in bad weather.. ive used mine by myself in inclement weather at night,never have had an issue... not sure the legality as mobile mechanic service trucks which are private businesses often have strobes on them .. ive akways been told the color of flashing lights is what gets people into more trouble. ie red and blue beacons are out where green / yellow / white are often OK.

 

[Albatross]

he thanked us for our help and safety. but did mention that using the school lights wasnt technically legal but said life is more important ..
...
ive akways been told the color of flashing lights is what gets people into more trouble. ie red and blue beacons are out where green / yellow / white are often OK.

Yes, this is that "spirit of the law" kind of stuff. And it's not even a law, it's a code, really--which is essentially corporate policy. Regardless, that was a decent kind of cop, who got that.



Colors are a very different states kind of issue. Obviously, one should never use blue in a strobe or flasher unless you're looking for some kind of trouble, but one of the places I've lived had a whole small booklet for the different colors that could be used in a strobe flasher, IIRC, it was something like blue/red for cops, red/yellow for ambulances, green/yellow for tow trucks, and it had something like half a dozen more combinations for every kind of hazard or quasi-governmental automobile... Keep it to yellow and you should be good pretty much anywhere, maybe a bit of white if you're really trying to stand out. Although if I recall correctly, yellow/white was technically for the supervisor's vehicle on a road construction crew.

 

[Dbacks2k4]

Yes, this is that "spirit of the law" kind of stuff. And it's not even a law, it's a code, really--which is essentially corporate policy. Regardless, that was a decent kind of cop, who got that.

On our party buses, Iowa Commerical Motor Vehicle Enforcement makes us not only disable the flashers but also either remove the lamps or paint over them in a solid color. I asked our inspector once if they'd allow me to turn the rear ones into brake and turn lamps and he told me he couldn't allow it as a violation of state code while admitting he thought that code was stupid.



Another time my Dad was driving through Oklahoma Or Kansas at night and had his fog lamps on in the car on a clear night. This in addition to the regular headlights. Cop pulled him over and gave him a warning for improper headlights. State law there only permitted fog lamps in foggy weather. Another this seems stupid but its the law story.



Moral of the story, all depends on the individual officer and more likely the drivers attitude.



For my skoolie though, the rear lights are getting converted into brake/turn, just with a separate on/off relay switch at the drivers seat.