Advice on Custom Suspension?

[somewhereinusa]

BusFiend

Sent you a PM

 

[Iceni John]

Run away, fast, NOW, don't look back.

Sam Walker has been a guest of the federal government because of his fraud/dishonesty/embezzlement/theft/etc, Please take the time to research his nefarious doings - Bus Conversion Magazine's forum has some "interesting" things to say about him, because some contributors there have had first-hand dealings with him.

HTH, John

 

[BusFiend]

Heads up received. The two young guys (30ish) I spoke with in person seemed on the up and up too. Now I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'll take a look for another coach builder. But most of them are plenty far from the NYC-Philly corridor. Anyone have any recommendations? My deadline is Jan. 1st.

 

[cadillackid]

Heads up received. The two young guys (30ish) I spoke with in person seemed on the up and up too. Now I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'll take a look for another coach builder. But most of them are plenty far from the NYC-Philly corridor. Anyone have any recommendations? My deadline is Jan. 1st.

check out custom coach in columbusd ohio area... they have done some fantastic conversions in the past... mainly ive seen trip busses from them but they may very well do a skoolie..

columbus ohio is not that far from the east coast corridor... its a quick airplane flight and easy drive if comin g to get progress reports on a cxonversion... plus I live here in columbus..

they did get absorbed by farber specialty.. but i believe they still do bus conversions..

Farber Specialty Vehicles - Custom Coach

-Christopher

 

[retiredChemist]

Don't have a bus yet. Trying to put a design together first and purchase a donor to best fit the design.

Interesting thought on modifying the kneeling valve. First thought is school buses with front air seem to be rare. Retrofitting a complete front air suspension may be beyond my budget. What does it take to add a kneeling valve to the rear? Collapsing the air bags for kneeling has to lower the spring rate of the system. How would spring rate be calculated?

With a computer, they're a progressive rate not linear rate spring. The equations to do it are in most adaptive suspension research papers. The maths gets a bit complex without a computer.

The kneeling valve just takes some pipework and a valve and a brake switch and a lock it out unless stopped mechanism.

For going up instead of down, the leveling valve needs to be fooled. Most air bag systems sit at about 2/3travel, all you're doing is moving that up to 3/3 travel. Using stock bits nothing should get damaged as it's within a designed failure parameter, broken leveling valve.

 

[retiredChemist]

Heads up received. The two young guys (30ish) I spoke with in person seemed on the up and up too. Now I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'll take a look for another coach builder. But most of them are plenty far from the NYC-Philly corridor. Anyone have any recommendations? My deadline is Jan. 1st.

Pushing a tight deadline, there's a time/$ saving if you reuse some seat frames. Then just have units on them. Eg bed unit, bunks unit etc.

Then you can have fitout guys building bolt in units while the interior is being gutted/wired etc.

If you're planning on bouncing down very rough roads it'll help with dealing with the extra flex the bus gets subjected to.

 

[BusFiend]

Pushing a tight deadline, there's a time/$ saving if you reuse some seat frames. Then just have units on them. Eg bed unit, bunks unit etc.

Then you can have fitout guys building bolt in units while the interior is being gutted/wired etc.

If you're planning on bouncing down very rough roads it'll help with dealing with the extra flex the bus gets subjected to.

I've been communicating with a bus engineer who is concerned about the additional flex cracking/snapping the hat channel... I have no clue what I'm going to do.

I really want to wire, plumb and finish the interior myself. I just want a coach company to give me an empty, primered, insulated shell. Apparently, I can get this directly from Blue Bird, brand new, for $45k...

I may be better off finding a travel trailer that needs some help, grabbing a 3/4 ton pickup and be done with it.

 

[retiredChemist]

I've been communicating with a bus engineer who is concerned about the additional flex cracking/snapping the hat channel... I have no clue what I'm going to do.

I really want to wire, plumb and finish the interior myself. I just want a coach company to give me an empty, primered, insulated shell. Apparently, I can get this directly from Blue Bird, brand new, for $45k...

I may be better off finding a travel trailer that needs some help, grabbing a 3/4 ton pickup and be done with it.

Would you like me to post some pictures of what I did? The base of the unit to the seat frames mount and it's controlled movement is how I engineered it so it doesn't pull the Channel out of the wall.

 

[cadillackid]

With a computer, they're a progressive rate not linear rate spring. The equations to do it are in most adaptive suspension research papers. The maths gets a bit complex without a computer.

The kneeling valve just takes some pipework and a valve and a brake switch and a lock it out unless stopped mechanism.

For going up instead of down, the leveling valve needs to be fooled. Most air bag systems sit at about 2/3travel, all you're doing is moving that up to 3/3 travel. Using stock bits nothing should get damaged as it's within a designed failure parameter, broken leveling valve.

Most skoolie rear air bag systems are about as simple as it gets as far as maintaining a level.. they are a purelyt mechanical valve and lever arm so its real easy to make it electronic and / or fool it..

im not sure what kind of transit busses you are looking at but the gilligs they run in my city are fully bagged but have an absolutely terrible ride quality qith it seems like a lot of flex.. I feel like my 25 year old short school bus with only rear air bags has a better ride quality..

plus the floor lines in some of them are wierd with the rear portion of the floor raised compared to the rest of the bus.. ..

there was one parked early this AM and I looked under and around it.. I dont see how you get much ground clearance on it even if the kneeling valve were pumped to the max.. these busses are made to be lower for ADA access... the rear appears to have a bit more clearance but theres a lot of equipment stuffed back there..

if you go the route of a travel trailer and a pickup.. I seriously would budget for a 1 ton rather than 3/4 ton... I know people will tell you all day long their 3/4 ton will pull their 5th wheel but reality is its not as nearly nice of ride.. of course if ground cleaerance is an issue you arent going to get much of it with the 5th wheels ive seen..

for ground clearance a school bus is going to bne the way to go I believe..

I still think a coach builder can put a shell together... 4 leg seat frames are quite heavy and easily modified and bolted through the floor into the body ribs for anything you need to secure... I love them...

-Christopher

 

[EastCoastCB]

Folks put too much faith in school bus off road capability.
They actually get stuck pretty easily. Ask hank.

 

[cadillackid]

Folks put too much faith in school bus off road capability.
They actually get stuck pretty easily. Ask hank.

they can but putting Snow drives on does help.. which is what I have on mine and they are pretty knarly knobby tires... sure they have some whine on the highway.. but its a school bus.. its already noisy....

I already tested mine in the soft ground a bit as I went to a festival got caught in a massive rainstorm which turned the sort-of-gravel lot i was parked into a messy soft and muddy crap... there were people in regular cars and 2 wheel drive pickups stuck and I drove the ole Carpenter right out of there.. i was more concerned about my AT545 maxxing its torque converter stall than I was about the tires getting stuck.. I did have some weight over the wheels as i had about 10 soggy wet people with soggy wet umbrellas and bag chairs and such in the bus...

-Christopher

 

[Brad_SwiftFur]

If you get a bus with an air ride setup (or just air brakes), I believe they make air-locking rear differentials for these axles. Something like that will greatly reduce the likelihood of getting stuck. Just remember to unlock it for road use.

 

[RossAnabel]

If you will be moving a lot, go with the bus. Otherwise, a trailer / 5er will be the better setup. The key to off-road is ground clearance and airing down the tires, even the trailer. Get a compressor and a spare for getting back on the highway.
I have a 3/4 ton 4x4 and 29' 5er, does well off road. Flipped the axels on the 5er for decent clearance.

 

[retiredChemist]

Stepper motor and slide for moving the leveling valve up and down. Certainly easy. Should get about 1/2 ride height again height wise

The ride quality argument about progressive vs fixed rate spring is a whole different thread on it's own.

 

[cadillackid]

If you will be moving a lot, go with the bus. Otherwise, a trailer / 5er will be the better setup. The key to off-road is ground clearance and airing down the tires, even the trailer. Get a compressor and a spare for getting back on the highway.
I have a 3/4 ton 4x4 and 29' 5er, does well off road. Flipped the axels on the 5er for decent clearance.

what do you use for a compressor for your bus tires... my shop compressor does great but becausde I plan to do a lot of ohio to florida, texas, etc travelling even in winter i will be airing up and down tires to keep with the temperatures.. I need a compressor to carry along that can handle the big tires... or I was thinking of making myself shop air riught off of the bus air system compressor..
-Christopher

 

[BusFiend]

Lockers are available for most skoolie diffs. Out of my price range though, I believe. Adding an LSD is in the budget. Knobbed tires instead of ribbed tires also makes a huge difference. They're more aggressive than typical snow tires. They are noisier and get worse mileage, however.

I would probably not go with a 5th wheel. I think I'll need storage in the truck to make up what I'd lose from the skoolie. If I went the 5th wheel route, I'd probably convert a class 6 truck to 5th wheel duty. Flipping the axles/swapping tires out should get me the 8" minimum ground clearance I'm looking for. Not sure I have the time or budget to find and convert a 24-26' trailer and a truck.

I'd rather have the skoolie. Just have to figure out how to make it work safely.

 

[RossAnabel]

I have a Viair 450P and also Harbor Ft POS as a backup. The Viair takes an hour to get all 8 tires up to 50 - 70 psi. Reports say it won't start above 115 though.
I've only done a serious air down once just to see, most spots that I can get the rig into have been hard packed. I don't have a winch to make me bold.
I may end up rebuilding my 5er ( it's an '89) , beef up the frame and suspension, bigger tanks for boondocking, instead of doing a skoolie.

 

[BusFiend]

If you will be moving a lot, go with the bus. Otherwise, a trailer / 5er will be the better setup. The key to off-road is ground clearance and airing down the tires, even the trailer. Get a compressor and a spare for getting back on the highway.
I have a 3/4 ton 4x4 and 29' 5er, does well off road. Flipped the axels on the 5er for decent clearance.

I plan on moving at least monthly. That's why I started with the skoolie and not a trailer.

 

[BusFiend]

Would you like me to post some pictures of what I did? The base of the unit to the seat frames mount and it's controlled movement is how I engineered it so it doesn't pull the Channel out of the wall.

I would love to see what your describing.

 

[BusFiend]

check out custom coach in columbusd ohio area... they have done some fantastic conversions in the past... mainly ive seen trip busses from them but they may very well do a skoolie..

columbus ohio is not that far from the east coast corridor... its a quick airplane flight and easy drive if comin g to get progress reports on a cxonversion... plus I live here in columbus..

they did get absorbed by farber specialty.. but i believe they still do bus conversions..

Farber Specialty Vehicles - Custom Coach

-Christopher

Spoke with a gentleman who chuckled at the idea of a skoolie and gave me a price over my budget just to convert the shell. :-/