Advice on installation of upper shade layer on bus.

[Coyoki]

I'm going to be putting a hard plastic cover like a shell kinda above my bus that is going to be anchored to 6 4x4 post that's going to be bolted to the top of the sides of the bus, kind of like u would do when putting a small wood deck on top of a bus, but I'm using the plastic instead of wood to reduce the weight and top heaviness. My question would be I'm not entirely sure what size bolts I would need for this. I'm not sure what the dimensions of the underlying support ribs in the roof are and don't want to get something that's way too big and end up compromising the structural integrity of the roof.... Is there possibly anyone in here that has done something similar that could offer so advice?

 

[#1FordFan]

I think it’s a very good idea.
I do have a twist on this idea. What if the center 36 inches or so was solar panels?? 4 panels could provide quite a bit of shade and help power just about everything but the AC and microwave.

 

[s2mikon]

When I mounted my solar panels on my bus it made a noticeable improvement. I understand why you want to do this.

 

[Coyoki]

I do have 4 solar panels that I'm going to be putting on but I'm having to attach them to the sides of the roof hanging down. My physical ability makes it difficult to climb up in the winters to clear the snow of the roof. So I'm having them on the side of the bus with a means of tilting them out like an awning. If I was young and hail I'd have them on the top lol

 

[risenphoenix71]

Following for the solar awning idea. I found this thread while searching for information about doing exactly what you're talking about. Since I want to put awnings over the windows anyway, I figured I may as well make them out of solar panels that would just lie against the side of the bus when they were in storage or driving mode, and then could be tilted up into awning mode to provide shade to the windows, solar power, and some protection from rain so I can keep the windows open. Please do post pictures when you get around to it

 

[AlphaHare]

There was a former prisoner transport bus on here somewhere that had a double roof for heat mitigation. I'd go that route instead of plastic.

Maybe some 18 ga sheet-metal panels, maybe 2" standoffs (I'd try cut sections of 2" sq tubing), rivet the tube sections to the bus and the sheet-metal to the tubes.

You would also get a 'second roof' for mounting other things like solar panels - assuming you thought out the standoffs to provide structural hard points..

 

[nikitis]

Interesting. So like a floating roof panel above the actual roof with nothing but air between them, and held together with brackets?

 

[AlphaHare]

yup - there was a prison bus here somewhere showing it.

 

[Rucker]

I'm considering some method of shading as well but have not finalized plans.

I've not heard of or seen anything similar to what you are describing, but there are not a lot of solutions out there.

If by shading you mean reduction in solar gain, be sure to consider air circulation under the shade structure. There's direct solar gain as well as convective gain through the air gap between the shade structure and the roof. I think you'll need to figure out how to achieve some air circulation in that area to receive all the benefits the shade structure is going to have.

Other questions that make me a bit skeptical of a rigid shade structure: How will it be supported across the span? What kinds of wind resistance will it give, and how will it be protected from vibration driving down the road? Will it look funky and do I care?

In Northern California most places I go have trees and there's no better shading. My solar panels are at the back of the bus so I park with the front in shade.

And so far that's worked well. But I'd like a way of tarping or shading not just the bus but also some sitting area, and I've been looking at some kind of shade sail setup where the sails are held up by fiberglass poles that are stayed either with rope or some kind of brackets I mount around the bus.

The benefit of shade sails (as I imagine them) is they are relatively light, they can be configured as needed and they can be stowed. Also, I won't have to crawl up on the roof to install them.

 

[AlphaHare]

Found the one I was thinking of....

Operation Prison Reform

I just got back from a 2,140 mile drive with my 46 adult passenger, 2002 Bluebird All-American. Mechanically, the bus drove amazing from Texas all the way back to New York. But we did have two blowouts resulting in the replacement of 3 tires, so that was fun, the tires were weather checked, but...

www.skoolie.net

You can imagine several ways of doing the stand offs, including the simple Z-webs here

 

[nikitis]

Thinner than I thought. Being so close it may not help much while stationary. It would still capture the suns heat and radiate downward. Probably helps a few degrees though.

 

[Coyoki]

Interesting. So like a floating roof panel above the actual roof with nothing but air between them, and held together with brackets?

Yes. It's mainly just a shade covering to provide some relief from the sun directly on the metal roof. Do to my last RV I was living in till the bus was finished burning down I stayed in it this whole summer and literally baked from the heat.

 

[Coyoki]

There was a former prisoner transport bus on here somewhere that had a double roof for heat mitigation. I'd go that route instead of plastic.

Maybe some 18 ga sheet-metal panels, maybe 2" standoffs (I'd try cut sections of 2" sq tubing), rivet the tube sections to the bus and the sheet-metal to the tubes.

You would also get a 'second roof' for mounting other things like solar panels - assuming you thought out the standoffs to provide structural hard points..

Unfortunately I'm working on limited funds and time plus lack of larger tools and work area so I'm trying to figure out the best affordable solution without the necessary means of having any assistance or access to a large shop or anything for bigger installations.

 

[Crown_Guy]

Unfortunately I'm working on limited funds and time plus lack of larger tools and work area so I'm trying to figure out the best affordable solution without the necessary means of having any assistance or access to a large shop or anything for bigger installations.

MCI built some custom MC5C's back in the 1970's for a special contract for Saudi Arabia and the oil companies transporting workers in that terrible heat. It was about 80% full length false roof supported about 2 inches above the main exterior roof. The supports were thin sheet metal running lengthwise of the false sun shade roof so air flowed with no restrictions underneath and provided added cooling and insulation. MCI to my knowledge didn't make a habit of offering this particular option in the years following but I'm sure they retained the expertise to do it if required. This was validated for me a couple years ago when I found quite unexpectedly an MCI 12 (MC9 updated variant) available from the US Dept of Homeland Security and being auctioned off. I jumped on it and was able to acquire one for my own use and ultimate conversion. I've attached pics showing the sun roof which came to be known in the business as the "Saudi Arabian" sun roof. Extremely rare MCI option and I count myself especially lucky to have found one with low miles and the ultimate in engine and transmission drive line combination. Detroit Diesel Series 50 (4-cylinder) and Allison B500R world transmission 6 speed with retarder. Very happy with this and have grand plans for it.

 

[Coyoki]

With it being so close to the roof doesn't the sun's heat still absorb into the actual roof? The one I'm planning on putting up I was considering leaving about a 4 to 6 inch gap between the two "roofs"

 

[Crown_Guy]

With it being so close to the roof doesn't the sun's heat still absorb into the actual roof? The one I'm planning on putting up I was considering leaving about a 4 to 6 inch gap between the two "roofs"

Apparently not. It worked well enough in Saudi Arabia with temps above 120F daily. I'm sure if it's sitting still the heat will find it's way in through the walls and windows anyway. Also note that the sun shield is vented it's full length on both sides with tons of vent holes. This shield acts as any other object shielding the main roof from direct solar exposure would and this "shade" provides immediate and positive results, doesn't matter how far away it is, as long as air can circulate out from under it while stopped, and forced out while driving, the benefits will still be very positive. This solution was meant to enhance the ability of the A/C to keep up with solar gain coming from the exposed roof area, the moving air flow running lengthwise between the roof and sun shield while driving was a huge benefit. Remember that anything sticking up from the roof will eventually be found by passing trees, hotel canopies, low bridges, ad nauseam, pick another hazard and it will find exposed protuberances on the roof. This neat and low mounted sun shield worked wonders without exposing itself to passing hazards, engineered compromise comes to mind.

That's why I'm no big fan of adding anything above the original roof line without a really good reason, and an ability to absorb impacts without tearing holes in the roof. Also keep in mind that the attachment of said structure will most likely require the drilling and penetration of the roof, thus providing numerous entry points for water, and creating leaks that could be very destructive to the vehicle structure itself. I don't like the idea of drilling ANY holes in my precious vehicles, Anywhere, even the dash, since holes are forever and once made are never sealed or be made whole again.

Also keep in mind that if you do build a structure on your existing roof, especially 4-6" as you indicate, and most solar installations are even higher, I always cringe at them thinking of all the real world dangers lurking to take them out, that includes roof mounted A/C units, I'm not a fan of those either, for the same reasons. For me a smooth, unobstructed clean roof line is the goal. It's easy enough for stuff to hit and damage the roofs as built without adding further tempting targets for misadventure.

To each his own of course and I wish you well in making yours into the dream vehicle that works best for you. There is no wrong or correct answer to these questions, only the will and desires of the owner and how he intends to use it. As for me I have way too many years and miles in commercial service driving buses and trucks into nasty and sometimes dangerous situations to wish to make my own conversions anymore susceptible to the hazards of the real world and all the things reaching out and trying to damage my baby(ies), Crowns and this MC12

 

[TheHubbardBus]

I can't imagine a better 'kill 2 birds with one stone' approach to roof shading than using solar panels to do it. Is the snow concern only about the panels being blocked from light, or are there other issues (load?). With the price of panels, especially residential panels purchased in bulk (one source of many: Affordable Solar Panels & Accessories: New & Used Available!), it's conceivable you could create a shade structure that was still the most cost effective option even if it never saw the light of day. You could still have the side-mounted panels.

 

[Coyoki]

I can't imagine a better 'kill 2 birds with one stone' approach to roof shading than using solar panels to do it. Is the snow concern only about the panels being blocked from light, or are there other issues (load?). With the price of panels, especially residential panels purchased in bulk (one source of many: Affordable Solar Panels & Accessories: New & Used Available!), it's conceivable you could create a shade structure that was still the most cost effective option even if it never saw the light of day. You could still have the side-mounted panels.

It's 99% snow blocking light that's the reason for the solar panels not being mounted on the roof "traditionally." I'm in my mid 40s and am not in the best of shape and TBH climbing up on a ladder multiple times a day/week to brush snow off the panels is too daunting for me to bother with for years thus why I'm installing the panels on the side of the bus and just having the shade cover on top to reduce some heat absorption during the peak summer days...