Air Door Help Required

[TheHubbardBus]

We're keeping our bi-fold air door because it's cool. What's not cool is it isn't working properly at the moment. It has worked perfectly for periods of time, interspersed with periods of erratic behavior. My main problem is I don't know how this system works.

Does anyone have any resources / manuals / online instructionals that would detail the parts of such a system and how they work together?

I've ruled out the air-door switch, and it's highly-unlikely to be either the linkage or the piston. That leaves the regulator, a component just downstream from the regulator that does I-dont-know-what, and the mechanism sitting atop the piston with the door open/close speed controls. The last item is what I'm guessing to be the most likely source of trouble, but I can't say for sure.

Not necessarily looking for advice other than how/where to learn, but if you've got some... One potential clue is that even when you switch the door to 'manual', the door doesn't release. For this reason I've had to disable the system entirely to prevent being locked out.

Thanks in advance.

2004 IC CE200/300

 

[nikitis]

First first thing to verify is, is it getting air to the device? If so, then test the electrical on the unit. Power getting to it? Ground connected? Once verified it is, then it's the part and it will have to be removed and inspected.

 

[nikitis]

Here's your Air Door I believe:

 

[TheHubbardBus]

Thanks man. That diagram definitely helps identify the components, if not necessarily the location/appearance of them. I've already ruled out electrical issues. Pretty sure it's the dump valve at this point. Apparently it's the part responsible for allowing pressurized air controlling the doors to 'dump'. It being faulty would totally explain the system staying pressurized even with the manual dump valve switch engaged.

 

[s2mikon]

Be sure to check for blocked exhaust ports. I have seen how leaf roller bees will block governor valves, suspension dump valves, spring brake valves and fuel bleeder hoses. The little pests will even jam up my tractor ignition switch.

 

[ewo1]

We're keeping our bi-fold air door because it's cool. What's not cool is it isn't working properly at the moment. It has worked perfectly for periods of time, interspersed with periods of erratic behavior. My main problem is I don't know how this system works.

Does anyone have any resources / manuals / online instructionals that would detail the parts of such a system and how they work together?

I've ruled out the air-door switch, and it's highly-unlikely to be either the linkage or the piston. That leaves the regulator, a component just downstream from the regulator that does I-dont-know-what, and the mechanism sitting atop the piston with the door open/close speed controls. The last item is what I'm guessing to be the most likely source of trouble, but I can't say for sure.

Not necessarily looking for advice other than how/where to learn, but if you've got some... One potential clue is that even when you switch the door to 'manual', the door doesn't release. For this reason I've had to disable the system entirely to prevent being locked out.

Thanks in advance.

2004 IC CE200/300

Can you post a pic of the door controls.

 

[TheHubbardBus]

s2mikon, I never would have thought of that. I'll definitely take a look. Thank you.

ewo1, I was going to hit you up since you're the document masta, but I didn't want to impose. Here's that pic:

The circles are the parts I have not yet ruled out. On the left, the regulator is known working. What I just learned to be the dump valve is attached to the outlet of it on the right.

On the right, there's the unit that controls the piston itself, with adjusters that change the door speed on top. These are certainly not working properly, but I'm guessing it might be because they rely on the dump valve to function correctly?? This actually has little lights on it that indicate when the door switch has been turned to open or close, so I know it's getting power to the proper parts at the proper time.

I didn't circle the piston because I highly doubt it's at fault. It has always worked as expected when the other components do their job.

 

[ewo1]

s2mikon, I never would have thought of that. I'll definitely take a look. Thank you.

ewo1, I was going to hit you up since you're the document masta, but I didn't want to impose. Here's that pic:

The circles are the parts I have not yet ruled out. On the left, the regulator is known working. What I just learned to be the dump valve is attached to the outlet of it on the right.

On the right, there's the unit that controls the piston itself, with adjusters that change the door speed on top. These are certainly not working properly, but I'm guessing it might be because they rely on the dump valve to function correctly?? This actually has little lights on it that indicate when the door switch has been turned to open or close, so I know it's getting power to the proper parts at the proper time.

I didn't circle the piston because I highly doubt it's at fault. It has always worked as expected when the other components do their job.

That looks like the same setup on my Amtran. I got the OEM amtran manual back at my shop. I am going there later and see what the book has.

The blue circle on the left is simply an air pressure regulator. the other ones I cannot see clearly, need a closeup but my initial thought is that this might be a simple sandard door setup acrooss allthe international platforms.
Let me check the book..

 

[TheHubbardBus]

Thanks so much. No rush at all, I'm not working on this at the moment.

FYI, the blue circle on the left is both the air pressure regulator and the questionable dump-valve (if you look close you can see wiring going to what I assume to be the solenoid portion of it). I can't find a part # on that dump valve.

 

[nikitis]

This is what I have on it:

 

[TheHubbardBus]

Thanks again, @nikitis. Really appreciate that! I do have that manual, and was attempting to use it to set the door open/close speed hoping that was the issue, but it appears not to be.

 

[nikitis]

You may have to get a gauge and add it to determine pressures are being met. If they are, then the mechanism will need to be taken apart. Likely an o-ring went bad or something. Not sure anyone has a manual for the device itself but at least you know the required pressures for testing.

There’s usually not too much that can go wrong with those units other than getting dirty. Might just be faster to remove it, take it apart on a bench and clean it out good with brake cleaner, and closely inspect any o-rings.

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

i dont know your mechanism but if you do decide to take it apart and clean it then be mindful of any little springs and BB size ball bearing that could be acting as check valves.
thinking of the adjustment procedures maybe not but you never know.

 

[nikitis]

Is there a brand name and model number on it?

 

[TheHubbardBus]

No, there's no part #, which is really my main problem now. Probably not a problem if I just go down to the dealership. Just got a lot to do and don't want to take that time off. The air pressure is not the issue. The regulator is fully functional as is the attached gauge.

@Jolly Roger bus 223, I will be careful! Thanks for that. Once I'm sure I've got the malfunctioning part(s) ID'd, I'm just going to buy a new one(s). Then I might take the old one(s) apart at a later date and see if I can make a quality spare part(s) out of it/them. That's assuming the new parts aren't prohibitively expensive.

 

[#1FordFan]

What happens when you flip the door switch?? Do you instantly hear a click (valve that controls air to cylinder) Do you hear air leaking?
I’m gonna assume you know what the override switch does.

 

[TheHubbardBus]

@#1FordFan, thanks for helping & sorry for the late response. Been really busy lately. As for your question, nothing happens... it doesn't release pressure at all. I'm getting voltage to & from this switch, so electric problems have been ruled out.

At this point I've determined the problem is the dump valve and/or the solenoid attached to it (assuming they're seperate part #s and not a singular assembly).

 

[TheHubbardBus]

Just in case anyone has a similar issue...

I ended up confirming this part (the dump valve) is bad. It may not be the entirety of the problem, but it probably is. For our bus, the part required is linked to below, along with the place/price I found most affordable (darn pricey part). Done business with TAC before and they're GTG.

Thanks to everyone that helped. Very much appreciate it!

IC-104 Air Valve for IC with Amp Plug

 

[nikitis]

TAC adds a little premium to the parts but the availability is pretty good. I bought my additional rub rails for my roof raise from them.