Air Pressure Beep Disable Modification.

[nikitis]

Old trucks used a red flag above the windshield that drops down when air is low. You have to manually put it back up once aired back up. I want to get one for my old bus, it would be period correct and legal. Best of all no buzzer.

It's called a "Wig Wag" and you can still get them, but they are hard to get and costly. Made by Stemco. You also have to figure out a way to tie into the air system with them because they were made for single air lines, and most modern buses within the last 30 years have dual air lines, so you may need two, one for each pressure system.

 

[Ronnie-SKO]

A friend of mine has a number of antique parts trucks. Will see if any of them have one.

 

[s2mikon]

I'm sure glad that underwriter loss controllers don't follow our forum. If they did it would be real hard to get insurance. Oh wait.....

 

[nikitis]

A friend of mine has a number of antique parts trucks. Will see if any of them have one.

You can find them if they aren't snatched. Historically the air brakes on trucks before the 70's weren't set up in such a way that the brakes would lock if the system ran out of air, and many people died because their air pressure systems would fail, and then have no brakes. Modern ones are designed invertly so when you run out of air you stop. Even losing air pressure now is Far safer than it used to be. While it can be dangerous to suddenly be driving and your bus feels like it just wants to stop without you hitting the brakes. The Beeper/buzzer is the warning that you only have a couple more pumps left to stop it at your own leisure. If you fail to do this or don't hear about it, you still stop by design, you just don't get a choice as to when you stop and you will begin stopping suddenly which could still cause an accident because you may not be ready for it and mishandle the situation.

The Law requires that more than a visual indicator be used today unless you are hearing impaired. What I'm proposing with my modification doesn't skirt the law, but it does allow it to be disabled while diagnosing a vehicle and stopped which the law doesn't care about.

What people here are worried about is the extreme remote possibility that someone will execute the modification, fail to ignore a red lamp light telling them there's no air, and continue onwards and die in a wreck and it be found out that it was tampered with.

Which won't happen.

If you are one to execute this mod, for one you are gonna know long by that point why it's there, before you even attempt the mod, and you are gonna be educated to know that you need to always check air pressure and that it's enabled. And Should they forget it's enabled there'll be a large red light telling them your buzzer is disabled and you need to enable it before driving. The possibility is so remote.

The real Darwin award goes to those who choose to ignore warnings of your bus and fails to check for air pressure everytime.

 

[Kentucky Dreaming]

Looks like the first Darwin Award for a skoolie builder is coming soon.

 

[desrtdog]

If you really want to make it "safe" and "foolproof", change the wiring around so that you have a bus start interlock if the buzzers are deactivated...switch in the "on" position, bus no start...

...my 2 cents...I won't be doing this anytime soon...

 

[nikitis]

If you really want to make it "safe" and "foolproof", change the wiring around so that you have a bus start interlock if the buzzers are deactivated...switch in the "on" position, bus no start...

...my 2 cents...I won't be doing this anytime soon...

That's a possibility too but rather than discussion on how that could be done technically the people here will still proceed to act cowardly towards such action as it's "Modifying the oh so scary you're gonna die if you touch it" alarm.

They'd rather call you names than actually discuss possibilities. I appreciate your suggestion desertdog.

For my bus personally the interlock solenoid was already removed by the dealership. I'd have to figure out how they disabled it or become more intimate with my wiring to restore it so that wouldn't work in my case but could for others.

Additionally that solution would only partially work because if I needed to use servicemaxx to monitor engine performance the engine will be disabled and if it's on it will start but then nothing will have been achieved because the alarm will be on which is the point of this exercise is to avoid the loud beeper directly in my ears while trying to concentrate on values, so it needs to be disabled in a safe manner while any diagnoses or repair is being done which is why I came up with the red light diagram solution to warn the driver the alarm is disabled and that you need to flip the switch before driving when you turn on the key on position. A driver isn't going to miss a red light on his dash and if you've gone through the pain of installing such a mod you're gonna understand Everytime what you need to do which is to turn on the air pressure beeper.

 

[desrtdog]

That's a possibility too but rather than discussion on how that could be done technically the people here will still proceed to act cowardly towards such action as it's "Modifying the oh so scary you're gonna die if you touch it" alarm.

They'd rather call you names than actually discuss possibilities. I appreciate your suggestion desertdog.

For my bus personally the interlock solenoid was already removed by the dealership. I'd have to figure out how they disabled it or become more intimate with my wiring to restore it so that wouldn't work in my case but could for others.

Additionally that solution would only partially work because if I needed to use servicemaxx to monitor engine performance the engine will be disabled and if it's on it will start but then nothing will have been achieved because the alarm will be on which is the point of this exercise is to avoid the loud beeper directly in my ears while trying to concentrate on values, so it needs to be disabled in a safe manner while any diagnoses or repair is being done which is why I came up with the red light diagram solution to warn the driver the alarm is disabled and that you need to flip the switch before driving when you turn on the key on position. A driver isn't going to miss a red light on his dash and if you've gone through the pain of installing such a mod you're gonna understand Everytime what you need to do which is to turn on the air pressure beeper.

I don't know how the interlocks on older buses work - for example the wheelchair door or emergency exits....seems that some may prevent the bus from starting, but maybe not prevent the systems from turning on. On my bus, I can still start it if the above are open...however, I can't start it if the shift selector is not in "N" - maybe something there...

As for the point about having a big red light on the dash...from my experience, complacency eventually creeps in....case in point - the big-ass brick mailboxes in my neighborhood...I always thought, "how can anyone hit one of those?"...until a couple of years ago I did...

 

[nikitis]

Someone hit my mailbox all the time with their cars until one day I filled the base with cement.

It's not quite the same thing though. It's easy to get complacent while driving. You do so much of it. Not so much with a red light on key on. Near the warning light. Especially on buses. Most people are watching for that yellow warning light to go away on a key on event.

 

[nikitis]

I'm still trying to locate my beeper. I've been going over my circuit box tracing wires. I understand a bit more now how other items of my bus have been getting powered up and figured out why my strobe light stopped working. I unhooked the power supply in the back above the door, but even if I hadn't I noticed the rocker switch was unplugged so someone already disabled it for a reason. I'll worry about that later.

I think I identified the location of the beeper. It's the gauge itself in my bus and it's encased in the cluster. I'm going to have to remove the gauge cluster and cut open the plastic backing to get to the wiring and it's looking like it may not have wiring at all and be a part of the circuit board itself.

Luckily if that ends up being the case I have extensive motherboard repair skills and can cut the trace to the buzzer and scratch and solder onto the PCB trace directly and rig up my wiring diagram as shown earlier. This will make adding the red light indicator easier as well location wise as it's right there.

 

[cadillackid]

Old trucks used a red flag above the windshield that drops down when air is low. You have to manually put it back up once aired back up. I want to get one for my old bus, it would be period correct and legal. Best of all no buzzer.

the wig wag!! love these
one of the nusses we were in this past weekend at the vintage bus meet had one... coolest thing ever

 

[cadillackid]

you do know that if you break the beeper for the air buzzer you also lose the beeper for low oil pressure or an overtemp condition.. if you toss a serpentine belt it takes about 20-30 seconds at highway cruise before the engine goes intp high temp alarm.. you can say "I look at my gauge religiously" all you want.. but I damn sure kno that there are times you arent checking it every 30 seconds..

 

[nikitis]

the wig wag!! love these
one of the nusses we were in this past weekend at the vintage bus meet had one... coolest thing ever

I purchased a wig wag to add to the bus eventually.

Stemco makes them if you are interested in ordering.

 

[Bearmtnmartin]

Sorry, no. This is unacceptable. I also don't want to further wear out my bus by having to start the engine, and wait 5 mins for the tanks to fill, wearing out tanks, introducing more water to further rust the tanks, wearing out seals, hoses etc, and engine glow plugs, other engine parts, warming it up expanding and contracting its core from temporary heat, wearing out my already 30 year old air compressor. I tend to find myself going in and out of my bus to work on different things, and i'll lose air pressure in between and the beeper will be back on again. It's a lot of wear and tear that could simply be handled by a flip of a rocker switch. It doesn't make logical sense to do all of that when it can logically be solved with the flick of a switch electrically which brings no wear and tear on the bus.

My experience has been like so to give you an example:
I enter the bus, I go to fix my strobe light, switch isn't working, Key On, Beeper ensues blasting away at my ears. I go to the back to multi meter test the wiring for voltage while the switch is on, still beeping, forgot my multi-meter in the workshop at my other property. Get phone reminder that a scheduled work call is about to happen. Walk away from bus. Come back hours later, if I had filled up my air tanks, they would now be drained by this time. I have multi meter in hand now hours later, key on, switch on, ear drums getting battered again.

Other examples are when using servicemaxx to test values etc. It's extremely annoying, and none of these tests require an air brake system, I want it off. I shouldn't have to needlessly wear out my air system prematurely and engine everytime I want to do a diagnosis or fix as there will be a lot of these sessions, Period, end of story.

The point isn't to diagnose the air system, it's about disabling the beeper/buzzer while working on OTHER items than the air brake system, like programming ECM, or adding peripherials, double din stereo systems, speakers, fixes, repairs, etc.

You do not want that noise directly piercing your ear drums while you are concentrating on fixing your bus, and the Key is in the ON position.

If my bus were new and in service on a school yard, I'm likely as a school district bus mechanic am probably only going to ever work on one item, fix it and move on. It may not be as much of a nuisance. But our buses are old, they have a lot of issues, and I'm in there a lot diagnosing and learning and testing. I literally can't stand it and it's driving up the wall. It has bothered others as well in the skoolie community as there are threads all over this place stating such.

I also believe some beepers are louder than others. Mine is insanely loud. I've been in other buses where it's a soft beep and it's not as much of an issue. I've also seen one where it sounds like a 7/11 gas station with calm door chimes. This is NOT the case with me. It hurts my ears like a dog whistle hurts a dogs ears. It's painful.

Adding a rocker switch to disable the beeper/buzzer is a noble upgrade and it makes the most sense to do. I'm going to add a softer beeper as well. So we're gonna do it, and this thread will be instructional.

You have convinced yourself it is a smart thing to do but fortunately you are not convincing anyone else. Hook your bus up to your shop compressor if it's such a big deal.

 

[s2mikon]

This is called irrational behavior. Take one of the most important safety warning devices and modify it to one's owns liking because it irritates us. I don't get it, and neither did anybody else here.

 

[nikitis]

you do know that if you break the beeper for the air buzzer you also lose the beeper for low oil pressure or an overtemp condition.. if you toss a serpentine belt it takes about 20-30 seconds at highway cruise before the engine goes intp high temp alarm.. you can say "I look at my gauge religiously" all you want.. but I damn sure kno that there are times you arent checking it every 30 seconds..

It's a good thing the beeper will be functional while I drive then. And quiet while I work on it in the driveway.

 

[nikitis]

the wig wag!! love these
one of the nusses we were in this past weekend at the vintage bus meet had one... coolest thing ever

Here is a picture of mine.

Part number for those are:ST70-2
Manufacturer: Stemco
Name: Wig wag

It works at 60 PSI, if it drops below that you're at 60 PSI and falling. This is a legal device. No audio.

To set it up you push the wig wag flag up and it doesn't hang if you are not above 60 PSI and should inspect your air system.

 

[musigenesis]

My bus came with a Wig-Wag and it's very handy to have given that my low-pressure beeper comes on about half the time while I'm driving (even though both tanks are fully pressurized) and my brain now tunes it out completely (just like your circuit mod except with neurons). I had the beeper replaced a few years ago but the problem eventually came back - not sure what that means.

 

[DeMac]

Proud & Missing Fingers

Well I'm sorry you guys feel that way.

I'm not going to shy away from learning something about how my bus works. I don't believe within the bounds I've set that it's dangerous, I just don't. I've already given disclaimer to would be followers who wish to do the same thing, but the difference is, I'm not trying to stop them from learning.

If you can't see a bright red light on your dash labled "air pressure buzzer disabled" and you choose to ignore it, then no one can help you anyway. You'll ignore the audible sound as well in that case. I've put a disclaimer and I'm not responsible for anyone's actions. I'm in the pursuit of knowledge, and I allow everyone else to have their agency and make their own decisions like grown ups do.

I will carry on with this project. You've said your peace on this project I've said mine. Be responsible with the information that will be provided here.

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All of this reminds me of the local news stations who periodically describe, in great detail, the dangerous or deadly acts which "some kids" are performing elsewhere in our great country. The reporters are always keen to provide very specific instructions, so that a dumb child could reproduce the scenario. They then remind us not to do this at home. Ha.

I sometimes wonder if the goal of the talking heads' PSA is to seed their own pipeline of explosive news.

 

[cadillackid]

Sorry but I stand by my thoughts that disabling warning systems like that is the dumb ass move of the year.. this would be an absolute instant DOT out of service and likely serious criminal inquiry into a contractor if done on an actual school bus ..
and if your insurer knew about this mid would be an instant cancellation.. you can put a light and a switch and say you’ll always remember to put the system back in service yada yada until you forget by being in a hurry one day.

And yes the progressive spring brakes would most likely start to drag you down and stop you somewhat gently before the auto spring brake kicks in .. but it’s just another layer of safety peeled off, another hole in a stack of Swiss cheese slices..

I have some technical ideas on how to make this “safer” as a service tool but reality is I don’t want to be associated with helping build such an atrocity..

I’ve built a lot of custom things in my lifetime from HVAC to vehicles to home projects but disabling safety equipment is not one of them . In fact I tend to add redundant safety systems ..

When I got my superior the air buzzer worked but the red light was burned out, I changed the bulb, on the back as typical of old busses it only had 2 small tail lights and all 4,lit as brake lights, I desired it to use all 4 tail and brake function. Even though that bus gets parked for the winter I tracked down and replaced the right side heating unit which leaked so I’d have full defrost on the windshield.. sorry but no thanks on help for your project ..