Another Hydronic Thread?

You also probably wouldn't "need" as thick of XPS since you are doing in-floor heating. I went 4 inches because I'm not doing in-floor heating so it's full passive mode for me. 4in is more than most do passively so I'm fine with it. I wasn't ready for the in-floor heating challenge on this build.
 
Just a few notes here.
My system has been in use for about 13 years. Design was speculation on my part in the beginning, based on what little info I could find at that time. I don't think I would do it any different now. The only problems I have had were boiler related and nothing to do with the installation.
I cheated a bit and made my runs 3" apart. Allow for length expansion the tubing gets a bit longer when it warms up.
I have been running engine heat directly, with a bit of heat loss at the exchanger, and no problems.
Make sure you have a pressure relief valve if you are using a heat exchanger hot water heater. As far as I know mine has never blown off.
My system is basically built like an automotive cooling system with a standard radiator cap and expansion tank. I've never had to add to it.
Make sure you have enough bleed valves, I ended up having to add a couple.
 
I See, So youre saying that for the rear, you did the 3/4 subfloor, and then screwed the pex too that subfloor sheet and did half inchply on top? Interesting. What kinda support did you do?

At this point im considering just routering out the foam, and maybe installing some brackets on either side of the plywood sheets to fasten them to the side of the bus chair rail. Otherwise, I would likely do the 1inch foam, and some 1 inch sleepers. Would be even cooler if I put a thin layer of aluminium between the two insulation layers to reflect the entirety of the pex (considering im routering out the 1 inch foam at that point, I could have two thermal deflectors.) Who knows. Interested in your pictures of the rear setup if you have any.
Kinda, what I meant is that the back behind the wheel well for us is after a step, so it's at a different height than the rest of the bus. It's 3/4" + 1/2" taller than the front, because it still has the same lower foam and subfloor.
Pictures will explain it better.

I'm not sure what you will be doing for walls, but I did it Chucks way with ripped 3/4" plywood strips along the wall, 2 layers for 1.5" thick. The first layer goes on with self tappers and if it's at the floor level it probably will cover your gap and constrain the floor vertically, just a thought.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20250309_004715643.jpg
    PXL_20250309_004715643.jpg
    183.3 KB · Views: 51
  • PXL_20250309_035939877.jpg
    PXL_20250309_035939877.jpg
    209.4 KB · Views: 45
  • PXL_20250309_200618152.jpg
    PXL_20250309_200618152.jpg
    176.5 KB · Views: 49
  • PXL_20250309_211411638.jpg
    PXL_20250309_211411638.jpg
    152 KB · Views: 53
Just a few notes here.
My system has been in use for about 13 years. Design was speculation on my part in the beginning, based on what little info I could find at that time. I don't think I would do it any different now. The only problems I have had were boiler related and nothing to do with the installation.
I cheated a bit and made my runs 3" apart. Allow for length expansion the tubing gets a bit longer when it warms up.
I have been running engine heat directly, with a bit of heat loss at the exchanger, and no problems.
Make sure you have a pressure relief valve if you are using a heat exchanger hot water heater. As far as I know mine has never blown off.
My system is basically built like an automotive cooling system with a standard radiator cap and expansion tank. I've never had to add to it.
Make sure you have enough bleed valves, I ended up having to add a couple.
Thank you for the info! I assumed your system would work, it was well crafted, but it's so nice to hear that something did work, doesn't always happen on this forum :)
 
Kinda, what I meant is that the back behind the wheel well for us is after a step, so it's at a different height than the rest of the bus. It's 3/4" + 1/2" taller than the front, because it still has the same lower foam and subfloor.
Pictures will explain it better.

I'm not sure what you will be doing for walls, but I did it Chucks way with ripped 3/4" plywood strips along the wall, 2 layers for 1.5" thick. The first layer goes on with self tappers and if it's at the floor level it probably will cover your gap and constrain the floor vertically, just a thought.
I SEE IT! You routered it in directly to the subfloor, and sheeted with 1/2... thats more along the lines of my thinking. I would essentailly do the whole floor this way. The only thermal bridge going down through the wood if any would be to the insulation. Yes, somehwhat a shame to do the nice osb routering, but whatever. Im likely only going to have 1 zone of tube in the floor. almost dead center running front/back. As anything else would end up underneath a cabinet of some sort if it went to far on the sides.

@somewhereinusa Ive read a good bit on your setup when you chime in on posts. Im thinking that the system I build will be under the same principal. Essentially an automotive cooling system. When youre running your "engine heat" does that mean you're running the heat to be transferred to your radiant system? Or running your actual engine heaters?
I will be retaining the heater at the drivers side which is the main defroster setup. I dont want to, becuase its a BEAR of space, but Its the responsible thing to do. I can always delete it and replace it with a routed in diesel air heater if needed. The only real reason Im keeping it is for the cooling purposes for the engine. Extra heat exchanger will do me good in the mountains come summer time.
 
I think my explanation is still poor, for the back, there isn't any routering involved!
There is a complete 3/4" layer, then a layer of 3/4" strips that match the spacing of the layout (8" on center - 3/4" = 7-1/4" strips IIRC). Then finally the 1/2" sheath.
It costs you some height, but might make a stronger product.
Or at least be easier than routering the subfloor 😅
Take a look at the earlier link from Radiantec.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20251105-133912.png
    Screenshot_20251105-133912.png
    281.6 KB · Views: 70
When youre running your "engine heat" does that mean you're running the heat to be transferred to your radiant system? Or running your actual engine heaters?
"Engine heat" is heating the hydronic via a heat exchanger. I plumbed in the original front bus heater core to the front hydronic heat loop. I eliminated the original rear heaters. Basically the original heater hoses from the engine just go to a water to water heat exchanger.
 
I think my explanation is still poor, for the back, there isn't any routering involved!
There is a complete 3/4" layer, then a layer of 3/4" strips that match the spacing of the layout (8" on center - 3/4" = 7-1/4" strips IIRC). Then finally the 1/2" sheath.
It costs you some height, but might make a stronger product.
Or at least be easier than routering the subfloor 😅
Take a look at the earlier link from Radiantec.
Ahh yes, I've done some digging on that site. Makes a bit more sense now. So just some added runs of ply on the floor spaced to allow the pex in. I wonder how much reflection youd get if a guy were to put a thin layer of aluminum on the sub floor before laying the pex plates down...

"Engine heat" is heating the hydronic via a heat exchanger. I plumbed in the original front bus heater core to the front hydronic heat loop. I eliminated the original rear heaters. Basically the original heater hoses from the engine just go to a water to water heat exchanger.
Interesting. Is that heat exchanger temperature controlled? Being that the bus engine temps can exceed 200 degrees, wouldnt that be almost the max for the pex?
 
Interesting. Is that heat exchanger temperature controlled? Being that the bus engine temps can exceed 200 degrees, wouldnt that be almost the max for the pex?
No temperature control I assume there is some heat loss at the exchanger. Being an old guy I take some chances and assume that most things have some wiggle room on specs. I did look at the specs and since it's not a high pressure system figured I could get away with it. I have had no problems in 12 years.
 
No temperature control I assume there is some heat loss at the exchanger. Being an old guy I take some chances and assume that most things have some wiggle room on specs. I did look at the specs and since it's not a high pressure system figured I could get away with it. I have had no problems in 12 years.
So, another one off question, being that there is no temperature controllers, are you just running your zones with mechanical valves?

Ive been looking into figuring out how to run some switched setup. Ive seen some van life people with fully automated systems, which i think are pretty neat.
 
No valves,
hydronic heat2.jpg
each of the four loops has a water pump controlled by a thermostat. The main loop that these draw from has a waterpump inside the heater. I hacked the wiring so I could add a switch. It needs to be on when using engine heat. Looking at that it may not be the final version but you should get the idea.
 
No valves, View attachment 1955310each of the four loops has a water pump controlled by a thermostat. The main loop that these draw from has a waterpump inside the heater. I hacked the wiring so I could add a switch. It needs to be on when using engine heat. Looking at that it may not be the final version but you should get the idea.
I'm wondering how to program some switches to then have them somehow automated. Thats the part that im like hmmm. someone needs to make some sort of programmable system in that realm? im not to keen on coding or writing software, and to be frank its not something I necessarily have the time to learn. Otherwise I might be more interested.

@somewhereinusa is your switch system monitored somewhere? do you have a screen/readout for the temperatures?
My guess is that each loop triggers the pump to cycle the heated fluid through it when it dumps below threshold? and then shuts off when above? How does the boiler now when to run? Guessing the same way?
Its very easy to just "buy the stuff" but a little harder to know that what you're getting will do whatcha need.
 
Nothing anywhere near that fancy. The pumps are controlled by an old fashioned mechanical thermostat. One in each of the back three rooms. The front is simply a switch, on the driver dash panel, for when I get hot.:cool:
I've found out that Chatgpt is pretty good at coding for Arduino. Once I learned how to talk to it. I just finished, in about a week, a project that would have taken all winter to code and it wouldn't have been nearly as pretty. It also doesn't get upset when I tell it it's wrong. It is NOT good at drawing wiring diagrams. I'm building a dashboard using a Nextion display. It will monitor, engine temp with cooling fan control, oil pressure, engine RPM, amps, volts, speed. It will also handle glow plug control with timer, and the starter button will be on the screen. At this point I have the controls working with readings to the screen. Now have to make it pretty. I've got all winter.
 
Nothing anywhere near that fancy. The pumps are controlled by an old fashioned mechanical thermostat. One in each of the back three rooms. The front is simply a switch, on the driver dash panel, for when I get hot.:cool:
I've found out that Chatgpt is pretty good at coding for Arduino. Once I learned how to talk to it. I just finished, in about a week, a project that would have taken all winter to code and it wouldn't have been nearly as pretty. It also doesn't get upset when I tell it it's wrong. It is NOT good at drawing wiring diagrams. I'm building a dashboard using a Nextion display. It will monitor, engine temp with cooling fan control, oil pressure, engine RPM, amps, volts, speed. It will also handle glow plug control with timer, and the starter button will be on the screen. At this point I have the controls working with readings to the screen. Now have to make it pretty. I've got all winter.
Here’s a question for you then. The “Switch” turns off the pump for the drivers heater? Is that correct?

I’ve devised my plan a bit. I currently have two KUUMA (formerly camco) hot water tanks. One is 6 gallons, one is 11 gallons. I’m leaning towards the larger tank. Albeit I’m not sure how much fresh I’m going to have on board. But, likely what will happen is this.

The main push of coolant will run through the boiler, and circulate through the tank almost full time. The tank itself is dictated to 180f for its internal element. So that’s all good and well. The zones out will be controlled pumps, similar to your setup.
My goal is to preserve the heat that’s stored in the domestic tank. Hence the larger one is what I’m leaning towards. I’ll need an expansion tank, though I’m not sure how much glycol I will actually be running. I suppose I have some volume calculations to do.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the boiler will circulate the glycol, not the actual hot water correct? I’m pretty sure that’s how it goes, but I can be pretty dumb sometimes.
 
Not sure what you are asking. The boiler pump only circulates the water in the main loop. The other pumps draw from that main loop and return back to the main loop. There are 3 separate kinds of water that heat each other by way of the heat exchangers. Engine coolant (poison) heats the glycol (not poison) which is the part that heats everything else. Then domestic hot water for shower etc.
You do know that the boiler doesn't turn on and off. Once it's lit it stays lit until you shut it down. It goes high and low to control temps. Not sure that any kind of water storage would be of any use.
I have basically all of the plumbing with an expansion tank that is about a gallon.
 
Not sure what you are asking. The boiler pump only circulates the water in the main loop. The other pumps draw from that main loop and return back to the main loop. There are 3 separate kinds of water that heat each other by way of the heat exchangers. Engine coolant (poison) heats the glycol (not poison) which is the part that heats everything else. Then domestic hot water for shower etc.
You do know that the boiler doesn't turn on and off. Once it's lit it stays lit until you shut it down. It goes high and low to control temps. Not sure that any kind of water storage would be of any use.
I have basically all of the plumbing with an expansion tank that is about a gallon.
Right. The engine coolant is separated via a flat plate exchanger hooked to the factory bus heater core (for defrost/driver heat). The main loop (being glycol) from the boiler is plumbed into the exchanger for domestic hot water. My reason for keeping that large of a tank (11gallon domestic hot) is so the boiler will make sure that is up to temp first in the event I need to say, heat water, but not heat the floors. Maybe im being dumb, but thats how it makes sense in my head anyways.
 
Ok got it. I'm using a marine water heater that also has an electric element. I've never actually used the boiler to heat domestic for that purpose only, although I could. Water heater is the main loop so it, basically has hot water any time the boiler is on.
Theoretically the loops would have some circulation when the water is circulating in the main loop with all loop pumps off. Realistically the loop pump impellers hinder the flow enough that very little heat gets past the pumps.
 
Ok got it. I'm using a marine water heater that also has an electric element. I've never actually used the boiler to heat domestic for that purpose only, although I could. Water heater is the main loop so it, basically has hot water any time the boiler is on.
Theoretically the loops would have some circulation when the water is circulating in the main loop with all loop pumps off. Realistically the loop pump impellers hinder the flow enough that very little heat gets past the pumps.
Right! Thats exactly what I was thinking. My marine heater also has an element in it. Ive read that I can actually swap out the 120v for a 24v element. I actually have two tanks at my house I ordered to size them up. One being the 11 gallon, one being 6 gallon. How much hot water do you have on board?
 
Just the marine heater, 6 gallons I think. There's just the two of us, we rarely shower at the same time and take navy showers so plenty of hot water.
 

Try RV LIFE Pro Free for 7 Days

  • New Ad-Free experience on this RV LIFE Community.
  • Plan the best RV Safe travel with RV LIFE Trip Wizard.
  • Navigate with our RV Safe GPS mobile app.
  • and much more...
Try RV LIFE Pro Today
Back
Top