Anyone Use Hybrid All In One Inverters

[fo4imtippin]

So, i plan to put around 3500watts (Commercial panels) of solar on my bus roof. I am also working on a DIY grid tie system for my house. It would be an awful waste if my surplus solar of the bus couldn't power my house.


A. The bus systems will all be 120v, so that i can run on any shore power that i can get. I have diesel heaters, one mini split, and propane water heater planned. 6KW should power everything i need.

B. I do want to be able to run welder, plasma cutter and other 240v tools at times, so a split phase inverter (somewhat rare for US) should work.
C. I also plan to run a 48v lifepo battery bank using Server rack batteries, or if i have the energy, using cells and a BMS
D. I have a 48v 180a alternator which will be regulated to the BMS with Balmar MC-620H. This will be used to top up battery on low solar days while the bus is running.

E. Hoping i don't have to use it, but i have a gasoline 7kw inverter generator if i don't expect a lot if sun.


Whats strange to me, is i don't see a lot of people using All-In-Ones for their skoolies. Does anyone know why? They seem cheap for what they all do.


I see three main options to fulfill my needs. There are more, like paralleling MPP120v models, but cost would be high for more watts than i need.

1. MPP LVX6048 6KW (Transformer) Split Phase Hybrid All In One
   1. Cost=$1577
   2. 450v PV Input (One String)
   3. Pro: Will allow backfeed of surplus solar to grid( my house).
   4. Con: Will not allow 120v plug to charge batteries
2. Growatt SPF-6000T DVM-MPT 6KW (Transformer)
   1. Cost=$1249
   2. 250v PV Input (Two Strings) (Less efficient?)
   3. Con: Wont allow backfeed of solar to grid. Will need additional grid tie inverter.
   4. Pro: Will allow 120v charging
   5. Con: Twice as thick as MPP version
3. Growatt SPF-5000ES-US 5KW with Growatt ATS-5000T-US
   1. Cost=$899+$349=1250
   2. 430v PV Input
   3. Con: Wont allow backfeed of solar to grid. Will need additional grid tie inverter.
   4. Con: Wont allow 120v charging
   5. Pro: Light and small but messy

So any of you solar gurus, what are your thoughts? Is there benefit of dropping the all-in-one plan and going to Victron/Renogy MPPT and Inverter Setup. Does anyone have experience with all in ones with any input?

 

[TheHubbardBus]

I have no experience with them. I'm just here to say I can't wait to see your system come together. It's quite the project!

Generally speaking, it's obvious that if something goes wrong, everything goes wrong, with no quick/easy way to get back online quickly. But I'm sure you've considered that already.

Another disadvantage is illustrated by your comparison... in every case, there's something you have to change/do/add to work-around the limitations imposed by the all-in-one unit.

 

[Rwnielsen]

I bought a pair of MPP 2424xxx. They came with a parallel kit and will provide up to 4800 watts split-phase if configured that way. I have no intention of using them that way myself and have a generator for welding. They each have 120 volt, 60w battery chargers and/or 80a solar (IIRC) and were around $1200 plus tax for the pair. Worth checking out.
***no grid tie

 

[HamSkoolie]

6kW sounds massive for base load inverter. Would a 3kW continuous 6kW peak work?
You can simplify also by purchasing 110VAC power tools including wire welders and plasma torches (mine are both 110) unless you really need the heavy duty capabilities that can't be obtained on 110. You can also just use a small (7kW seems way larger than you'll need) 220 capable generator for those times which are probably occasional since to support high welding/cutting usage on solar would require more PV and battery capacity.
We're going with the rack mount batteries as well and have ours on order. We just can't see beating 10.24 kWh of storage for 202 pounds and 19x20x14 inches.

We are going with a Victron Multiplus but had a lot of discussion and research about the wisdom of having everything in one unit thus creating a single point of failure. We decided that bringing along an emergency backup inverter to provide for critical loads (refrigerator and one AC) and using the genset to charge the batteries would cover us in a worst case failure scenario while allowing us to enjoy the benefits of the Multiplus.

 

[TJones-SKO]

Look at Victron's solar inverter chargers. They only support 240 volt output but the addition of one of their autotransformers could supply 120v.

Ted

 

[fo4imtippin]

I have no experience with them. I'm just here to say I can't wait to see your system come together. It's quite the project!

Generally speaking, it's obvious that if something goes wrong, everything goes wrong, with no quick/easy way to get back online quickly. But I'm sure you've considered that already.

Another disadvantage is illustrated by your comparison... in every case, there's something you have to change/do/add to work-around the limitations imposed by the all-in-one unit.

That's a good point. My current generator is an open frame inverter only used for hurricane backup for my house. Its too large to bring on trips for just backup. Ill have to source a tiny 2000watt backup inverter if i go the all in one route in case the all-in-one inverter breaks and i have to replace a board or something. Gas wont be an issue as i plan to haul gas for dirt bikes (even going to try to put a boat fuel tank under the rear platform to haul 15-20 gallons, to avoid a bunch of 5 gallon cans).


I would probably run a diesel generator, but with my shorty, im limited to underbody space and i already have a black tank planned. I got a free 48v alternator, so figured its only about $600 extra to add 5kw engine charging to the equation. I plan to move every few days, so if solar isnt keeping up, i have a backup.

 

[fo4imtippin]

I bought a pair of MPP 2424xxx. They came with a parallel kit and will provide up to 4800 watts split-phase if configured that way. I have no intention of using them that way myself and have a generator for welding. They each have 120 volt, 60w battery chargers and/or 80a solar (IIRC) and were around $1200 plus tax for the pair. Worth checking out.
***no grid tie

That's a good system and i had thought of two smaller systems for redundancy, and if i had to run off 120v only during an outage, that would be fine. Only issue is that those ones are 24v and as you mentioned, no grid injection. Just too many downsides for harvesting solar to my house while its parked 5 feet away 90% of the time. It is good to see some all-in-one examples. Almost all the threads and videos are victron multipiece systems which totally have their place.

 

[fo4imtippin]

6kW sounds massive for base load inverter. Would a 3kW continuous 6kW peak work?
You can simplify also by purchasing 110VAC power tools including wire welders and plasma torches (mine are both 110) unless you really need the heavy duty capabilities that can't be obtained on 110. You can also just use a small (7kW seems way larger than you'll need) 220 capable generator for those times which are probably occasional since to support high welding/cutting usage on solar would require more PV and battery capacity.
We're going with the rack mount batteries as well and have ours on order. We just can't see beating 10.24 kWh of storage for 202 pounds and 19x20x14 inches.

We are going with a Victron Multiplus but had a lot of discussion and research about the wisdom of having everything in one unit thus creating a single point of failure. We decided that bringing along an emergency backup inverter to provide for critical loads (refrigerator and one AC) and using the genset to charge the batteries would cover us in a worst case failure scenario while allowing us to enjoy the benefits of the Multiplus.

I could totally run what i plan on the bus with a 3kw continuous inverter. The only propane i plan is water heater (hybrid electric). So Ac running, convection oven, tvs, internet, and a possible sur-ron charging in the future would tax that system. From what i have read on the inverters, (welders, generators, etc) is that you have to run them at 50% of expectations. I have opened a Chinese All-In-One and the circuitry is very tiny. If i do run a welder and compressor on my 5kw system, its already at max. I see surge rating for split second loads like an AC compressor kicking on. This coupled with the fact that i may backfeed my house makes it easy decision for me to oversize. Especially with the All-In-Ones that check most of my boxes, they are mostly bigger anyway. For a system like the big growatt i mentioned, its not double the price for double the watts. Those transformer ones also weigh 120lbs and have 80lbs of copper transformers and should handle their rating fine.



That victron multiplus looks like a nice unit with a major brand backing it. I havent seen it used on a lot of builds. Maybe it will streamline solar install for a lot of people. Let us know how it works!

 

[Pigeoneer]

I’m on the waitlist for the MPP LV6548 right now and plan on using it in my bus.

Have you found any other resources regarding these in a Skoolie application?

I’ve also noticed Phocos, Sungold, Rich Solar, and now Renogy, all make AIO style hybrid inverter/chargers that would all work, but I’m going with the MPP just because Will Prowse seems to love em.

The diysolarforum.com forums have a significant amount of info regarding these, but some are for grid connected/household applications.

 

[Bigmikeclark]

I’m getting the MPP LV6048, as it allows a “grid-assist” in case the solar and/or batteries aren’t keeping up with the demand.

The downside to the “cheaper” all in one units is the higher standby power consumption. I can can get a few more used panels to offset the load for a lot less than than stepping up to a Victron setup

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/...22028_39468868206732&cr5=84387763294558&cr7=m

 

[fo4imtippin]

I’m on the waitlist for the MPP LV6548 right now and plan on using it in my bus.

Have you found any other resources regarding these in a Skoolie application?

I’ve also noticed Phocos, Sungold, Rich Solar, and now Renogy, all make AIO style hybrid inverter/chargers that would all work, but I’m going with the MPP just because Will Prowse seems to love em.

The diysolarforum.com forums have a significant amount of info regarding these, but some are for grid connected/household applications.

I have seen most of these all in ones as backups for houses or sheds and things. I know they may waste 100watts to power themselves which may deter some people from using.


I have added myself to the Waitlist for LVX6048WP. It adds a few features to my first option that will be useful to me. UL Compliant, higher PV input Voltage, Low-Frequency, IP65

https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/lvx6048wp/

 

[aakelley]

I am in the process of installing an AIO in my skoolie. Its the little brother to the growatt you lsited - mine is the 3000 24v. I have two 5kw 24 batteries and am in the process of figuring out mouting for the 6 265W panels I will have.

In the end I went for an AIO due to simplicity, space savings and cost. Even if it poops out, I can but 1.5 more of them for what I could for the blue stuff that everyone loves. I am not in my skoolie full time, so total bullet proof reliability is not such a concern for me.

I have had the GW 3000 up and running is my skoolie for about a month (all stationary) while I am building everything out around it and its been fine where its at. We’ll see in a month or two after I figure out and get the panels installed and take it out on a test flight how it puts up with the road.

 

[michael80697]

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