Arctic Family Bus

[Twigg-SKO]

Let me try to put this another way.

The entirety of the CDL regulations are predicated on the driver driving the bus for commercial purposes.

If you are not doing that, then the feds couldn't care less what you are driving, nor where you are driving it. Driver licensing is a state matter except in that narrow matter of driving commercially.

So ... what do the states say?

Well some of them say nothing at all (Oklahoma), so you are free to drive ANY vehicle on a Class C license.

Some of them are smarter than Oklahoma, and recognize that drivers of heavy vehicles really ought to be better trained and tested, so they impose regs that mirror the weight restrictions of the Federal CDL rules.

That is, if the weight of the vehicle exceeds 26001 lb, you need a Class B adding to your state issued license. They may also add Class A if you intend pulling a trailer weighing more than 10 000 lb.

They may also require an Air-Brake endorsement on top, or an Air-Brake endorsement to a Class C and no further testing. States vary in this.

However, those Classes and Endorsements are not a CDL, nor do they carry the driving and logging restrictions that apply to a CDL. They are simply extra classes on your regular license.

You could go right ahead and get a CDL, but unless you are a commercial driver you want to avoid that like the plague. They come with all kinds of restrictions and penalties. Even if you have one, your bus does not have a DOT number, and nor does it need one.

What you have to comply with, in this case, depends upon Alaska. But Alaska has zero sway over the federal rules, and any rules that state has made apply only to your regular license.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

Do what you think you need to do, but I am assuring you that you do not need ANY class of CDL.

You might need Class B on your Alaska license, but that's a different animal.

Alaska only offers Class B as a CDL. There is no non-commercial Class B license in Alaska. I'd like to avoid the Class B requirements entirely, but I may not be able to do that prior to the road trip up here.

Interestingly, I could get a CDL in Alaska by just taking the written test and bringing in a signed memo from the Army. My wife and her friend would need to jump through a lot more hoops.

 

[Twigg-SKO]

Alaska only offers Class B as a CDL. There is no non-commercial Class B license in Alaska. I'd like to avoid the Class B requirements entirely, but I won't be able to do that prior to the road trip up here.

Interestingly, I could get a CDL in Alaska by just taking the written test and bringing in a signed memo from the Army. My wife and her friend would need to jump through a lot more hoops.

If Alaska doesn't offer a Non-Commercial Class B, and the feds only care if you are driving commercially, then you are good to go on a Class C.

What does Alaska say about air-brakes?

ps ... Alaska cannot tell you that you need a CDL if you are not driving commercially. That is not within their authority.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

If Alaska doesn't offer a Non-Commercial Class B, and the feds only care if you are driving commercially, then you are good to go on a Class C.

What does Alaska say about air-brakes?

ps ... Alaska cannot tell you that you need a CDL if you are not driving commercially. That is not within their authority.

There is no Air Brake Endorsement in Alaska for non-commercial licenses. (there is for CDLs). I've heard of some people having problems crossing Canada without an Air Brake endorsement, though it appears to depend on which cop or border guard you deal with it.

The issue is whether the vehicle is "designed to carry more than 15 passengers" and the weight. Both of those have the potential to push this into a Class B vehicle. I need to do more research on state and federal law.

It looks like having a CDL cuts the legal BAC in DUI to .04. Also, when driving a commercial vehicle even for personal use, there are the various CDL restrictions (weight stations, log books, etc.). It all sounds very complicated and unnecessary. Again, more research needed. It seems pretty ridiculous to have to keep a log book for how many hours you slept at a campsite before getting back on the road.

I'm thinking the chance of running into problems in Alaska is pretty low - the cops here don't seem to be too intrusive and there aren't many of them. Still, I want to figure out how to be legal just in case. The second consideration is staying legal for the drive up here - which is dependent more on federal law.

 

[Twigg-SKO]

As far as I can tell, there is no Air Brake Endorsement in Alaska for non-commercial licenses.

The issue is whether the vehicle is "designed to carry more than 15 passengers" and the weight. Both of those have the potential to push this into a Class B vehicle.

I agree. Those are the usual rules. "Designed to carry" also means that it has to have the seats to carry Your wife and her friend won't need 15 seats, so remove the extras.

The weight is the issue that would push the bus into Class B and the federal regs are clear.

The weight would also push it into Class B for non-commercial driving but as Alaska doesn't have a non-commercial class b, it doesn't.

Some states make the drivers of heavy RV's get a Non-Commercial Class B just because of the plated weight. I'm okay with that, but my state doesn't and it appears your state doesn't either.

It's really important to remember that the CDL regs ONLY apply if you are driving commercially. If you are not, they are moot and you have to look to the state.

You seem good to go as you are.

There is one matter that is confusing. The Feds exempt any RV from all weight restrictions. So once the bus is re-titled, it is outwith those regs whatever the purpose of the driving.

So as yours is still a bus it conceivably falls to the feds to regulate, but again, only if driving commercially.

These rules are a bit complicated, and far too complicated to expect every Deputy Sherrif and local LEO to understand. On your side is simply that big yellow buses are almost invisible to law enforcement.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if a citation was issued, but that would be dismissed by any court once the arguments were heard. That can be very inconvenient. On the other hand, even a fender-bender while driving with a CDL can be extremely inconvenient with mandatory testing and all sorts of other rules.

Bottom line here is that for driving home it is a private bus with a gross weigh allowance of over 30 000 lbs.

Do CDL rules apply? No.
Does Alaska insist on a Non-Commercial Class B for that weight? No
Does Alaska require and Air-Brake endorsement? No

Drive it home

You will need Commercial Liability for Private Use insurance. Progressive Commercial will fix you up.

 

[Rusty-SKO]

It sounds like you thought everything out very well. I really dig your excel layouts- I love seeing push a tool to it's limits. I use Illustrator, which is equally cumbersome.

Alaska people are pretty independent and resourceful, so they should be fine after you set them up prepared. Extra fuel tank would be nice for this trip. That many little ones and laundry will become an issue.

Get reading, scheming, planning and dreaming !!!

 

[Alan N]

If your bus has air brakes you must have an air brake endorsement in BC.
They will shut you down (and not let you go until a properly licensed driver shows up) if you get stopped by the law.
Sounds like an ambitious project.
You can do it!
Keep us updated on your progress.
We took our 30 year old Gillig all the way to Deadhorse.
Go for it!

 

[Biscuitsjam]

If your bus has air brakes you must have an air brake endorsement in BC.
They will shut you down (and not let you go until a properly licensed driver shows up) if you get stopped by the law.
Sounds like an ambitious project.
You can do it!
Keep us updated on your progress.
We took our 30 year old Gillig all the way to Deadhorse.
Go for it!

And how do I get an air brake endorsement if Alaska doesn't offer one for non-CDL holders? I've spent a lot of time looking online and nobody seems to have the answer...

 

[Alan N]

You can get one through the Army.
Your wife??? Maybe a Georgia license?

 

[Twigg-SKO]

And how do I get an air brake endorsement if Alaska doesn't offer one for non-CDL holders? I've spent a lot of time looking online and nobody seems to have the answer...

You don't. You are correct, you can't and if you think about it, that makes the argument nonsense. If that were actually the case, the majority of air-braked RV's wouldn't be able to visit much of Canada.

If you are legal in your home state, then Canada recognizes that. We have full reciprocity.

There is an apocryphal story floating around about a guy who was put in that position, but if it happened it was because a Canadian official didn't understand the rules. Nothing you can do about that.

I'm kinda jealous of this trip ... It's a long way, and a real adventure.

 

[Alan N]

Could you license the bus as an RV in Georgia?
Once it's an RV it's an RV. In Alaska or any place else.

 

[Twigg-SKO]

Could you license the bus as an RV in Georgia?
Once it's an RV it's an RV. In Alaska or any place else.

So the original of the story about the guy who was delayed for lack of the endorsement was actually about an RV.

I agree though. I'd check the Georgia rules and if it can be fudged, have one of your Georgia family members title it. Sales tax might be due and the bus would have to be transferred into their name, then back again. Family transfers are usually tax-free.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

I've been spending too much time inside - I'm going to drive to a scenic hiking trail near here and get out of the house. It's -15 outside.

 

[M1031A1]

I've been spending too much time inside - I'm going to drive to a scenic hiking trail near here and get out of the house. It's -15 outside.

Bit of cabin fever I'm sensing?

M :biggrin:

 

[o1marc]

If it has been converted to an RV you can register it here in Ga. But they do an inspection to know that it has actually been converted to their standards. I'd gladly let you use my address to register it, but the inspection might be a deal breaker for you.
Maybe a pictorial tour might suffice. No license other than a class1 is required to drive the bus once it doesn't say school bus anymore.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

Bit of cabin fever I'm sensing?

M :biggrin:

Two hours showshoeing out and one hour back. I felt great, but the phone died and won't come back on. Just in time for my business trip tomorrow morning... I think there was some moisture inside that froze.

We're thinking about doing the following before the trip starts:
1. Install some comfortable (temporary) seats (not sure what we want to do - maybe swing by a junkyard and pull something out of an old car or bus?)
2. Install a Composting Toilet
3. Make or buy the mattresses and sheets that we plan to use
4. Install Refrigerator, Oven/Stove, and Microwave
5. Paint the outside
6. Use Aquatainers or similar for water
7. Set up a propane system and configure to be able to use shore power (no generator, battery bank, etc.)
8. Install some form of inexpensive (temporary) flooring for the trip
9. Get a couple spare tires (maybe at the Bus Graveyard in Gainesville?)
10. Get appropriate fluids, filters, etc. (need some thought in what this would look like)
11. Bring appropriate tools
12. Equip the inside with sheets, blankets, pillows, cups, utensils, pots, pans, etc. etc.
13. Make sure everything is very well secured so that it doesn't move in case of an accident or rollover

We can't really finish the interior until after we insulate the walls and floor and install electrical, plumbing, etc., so that will wait until the bus is in Alaska. Everything installed for this trip (floors, appliances, etc.) will need to be removed again before that happens.

Incidentally, I think I can hit enough of the requirements to register as an RV in Alaska. The only catch is that I need a "signature of inspecting officer" - I'll need to talk to the folks at the DMV about what that means and how to handle it. Maybe a photo or video tour would suffice? Or maybe I can get an exemption of some kind or see if someone in Georgia could be authorized for the inspection? They call Fairbanks the "Golden Heart City" - people help each other out and even the people at the DMV were nice when I've been there.

http://doa.alaska.gov/dmv/forms/pdfs/833.pdf

 

[Twigg-SKO]

What's the thinking behind the spare tires?

Tires aren't a problem. Good Sam will tow the bus free to a shop that has access to tires and changing is the problem, not sourcing them. The lug nuts are torqued to 500 ft lbs. With the proper tools it is possible to change a tire at the side of the road, but it is not easy!

You don't need a spare for the rear. You can drive slowly on one tire to get to a shop (or call recovery). Also, the rears should either be changed in pairs, or a secondhand tire with similar wear should be fitted next to the one that is still good. Better would be a decent tire repair kit and a compressor. Gummy worms work in bus tires too

Just random thoughts. It still sounds like a great trip and good luck with the registration.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

What's the thinking behind the spare tires?

On the drive up, you're probably right - the most remote part is the ALCAN and there's plenty of tow trucks and mechanics in that area.

My thinking is that after arrival, we plan to use the bus in Alaska where 80% of the roads are unpaved and cell service can not be taken for granted. Anchorage is the biggest city at 300,000. Fairbanks and Juneau both have around 32,000. No other city in the state has more than 9,000 residents. Considering that the state is 1/5 the size of the lower 48, the chances of being near a "big" city might not be great. I could see a flat tire easily turning into an all-day (expensive) odyssey if we don't have the ability to change it ourselves.

I plan to do some more research into changing (or repairing) bus tires. I've changed similar tires in the army, both with impact wrenches and with breaker bars / cheater pipes. Of course, the other challenge with a spare tire is figuring out where to put the thing.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

Just talked to the DMV on the phone.

1. The motor home conversion inspection is done by a DMV employee in the parking lot of the DMV. The lady told me that they couldn’t do it via picture or video conference software, though it sounds like there is no written policy. My opinion is No Policy = Employee Discretion. She’s going to do some more checking and email me back.

2. We can register it as a bus and drive it using a CDL.

3. We can figure out somehow to register it in Georgia.

 

[Home on the Range-SKO]

I had SC CDL and converted them to class F. I don’t know how many states have a class F, but essentially they are a non-commercial class A.

I didn’t know this class existed until I decided to surrender my class A (CDL).