Arctic Family Bus

[Biscuitsjam]

If I register it as a bus in Alaska, my wife’s friend could get a GA Class F license. It would one of the drivers legal at least.

 

[JDOnTheGo]

I think your list is good but, depending on your relatives, it may be optimistic for the time available. Assuming the goal is to live in the bus for the trip (as opposed to getting hotels), I would think mechanicals are priority #1, livability #2, and cosmetics (exterior paint) last.

A fairly crude kitchen setup is possible - I used only a plastic utility/workshop sink for several months and it worked fine (however; it is was just me in the bus). Maybe a small holding tank is worth the effort. If your relatives are capable of installing a propane system, propane stove/oven and propane/electric refrigerator - wow - that would be awesome. However; that is all pretty time consuming stuff. A chest freezer (acting as a refrigerator that is only plugged in when you have shore power) and a hot plate, camping stove and BBQ might be the easier options.

Carpet remnants might be the cheapest temp flooring option that is reasonably comfortable and helps quiet the space. I lived out of plastic totes for a while and this was very annoying. Having some cabinets/drawers helped immensely - maybe some of the cheap, pre-builts at a home improvement center are an option.

Some sort of temporary window coverings might be nice for some privacy. I got a roll of black out cloth and just tacked it over the windows. Roll it up and secure with velcro strips when you want some light.

A small generator and small propane heater (e.g. Mr. Buddy) would likely be worth having even if only for 'worst case' use.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

Exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. If we’re too ambitious, what do we cut first - propane? What’s most important to add - cabinets?

I was debating taking advantage of my father-in-law’s skills to get a professional paint job instead of the amateur one we can do ourselves after getting to Alaska.

 

[JDOnTheGo]

Exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. If we’re too ambitious, what do we cut first - propane? What’s most important to add - cabinets?

In my opinion, it depends on how you plan to make the trip north. If your family is going to live in the bus (no hotels, very few restaurants) then kitchen is important. If they will have shore power every night, then an electric chest freezer/dorm refrigerator and an electric hot plate might be sufficient. I'm not sure about the temps along their path but I use my propane BBQ a LOT when it is warm - even to fry eggs/bacon (not just hot dogs and hamburgers). Running a BBQ off those little propane canisters is a super easy option.

I'm also not sure about food stores along the ALCAN. Here in the states, there are WalMarts everywhere and there is really no "need" to carry two weeks of food - not sure about north of the border. That said, there will be a lot of folks making the trip so a few days of food might be significant (compared to what I carry).

My cabinet comment was entirely about "comfort". Living out of plastic totes works fine. I just got tired of bending over (old fart) digging in multiple totes looking for a spatula or pair of socks or salt shaker....

I was debating taking advantage of my father-in-law’s skills to get a professional paint job instead of the amateur one we can do ourselves after getting to Alaska.

Cannot argue with that!! If those skills exist - put 'em to work!!! :biggrin:

Another thought... I am a big believer in all tires being no more than seven years old. The roadside assistance programs will get someone out to help but you still have to pay for the service - and it can be expensive. I had a blowout in Iowa this spring and my roadside assistance program had someone there to help me in less than two hours. However; it cost me nearly two thousand dollars (two $650 tires plus the service). Sadly, I knew my tires were old and I had planned on replacing them prior to this blowout but I 'just didn't get around to it'....

 

[nodnarb79]

I'm from Soldotna, Alaska and did this very thing. I bought a 40' 2002 Thomas school bus and converted it for us to live in as we moved from Soldotna to South Carolina. You need to meet 4 of 5 of the following items for the state of Alaska to allow you to change the title from a commercial vehicle requiring a CDL to a recreational vehicle or RV; 1 have running water 2 have toilet facilities ( this could be a bolted down porta potty) 3 hook ups for 120v power 4 get rid of ALL school bus yellow on the bus ( we went to home Depot and bought Rust-Oleum tracker paint and just rolled it on, after a year here in SC still looks great no peeling paint or any thing) 5 permanent sleeping accommodations. You can get this information from AK DOT, I recommend calling them about it, we found it super hard to find online. Here is our blog of the build and the trip. alaska-mama.simplesite.com I hope this helps some. I had never driven anything bigger than 24' uhaul and this thing was easy to drive.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

JDOnTheGo, that’s the idea - avoid restaurants and hotels on the drive up. We’re already going to spend a ton of money on fixing up the bus and the drive itself - no need to break the bank on unnecessary expenses.

Unfortunately, my father-in-law does not seem to be on board with our project. He suggested we paint it ourselves using cans of spray paint... just because he could do a professional paint job, doesn’t mean he’s actually willing to.

Nodnarb, that’s a nice blog - you made it look easy. There’s some stuff there that will help us out a lot too.

Unfortunately, we have a problem registering as an RV in Alaska since the bus is currently in Georgia and the Alaskan DMV folks want us to bring it to their parking lot first.

 

[o1marc]

I'm from Soldotna, Alaska and did this very thing. I bought a 40' 2002 Thomas school bus and converted it for us to live in as we moved from Soldotna to South Carolina. You need to meet 4 of 5 of the following items for the state of Alaska to allow you to change the title from a commercial vehicle requiring a CDL to a recreational vehicle or RV; 1 have running water 2 have toilet facilities ( this could be a bolted down porta potty) 3 hook ups for 120v power 4 get rid of ALL school bus yellow on the bus ( we went to home Depot and bought Rust-Oleum tracker paint and just rolled it on, after a year here in SC still looks great no peeling paint or any thing) 5 permanent sleeping accommodations. You can get this information from AK DOT, I recommend calling them about it, we found it super hard to find online. Here is our blog of the build and the trip. alaska-mama.simplesite.com I hope this helps some. I had never driven anything bigger than 24' uhaul and this thing was easy to drive.

I get an "error, page does not exist" message when I try and access the blog.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

I get an "error, page does not exist" message when I try and access the blog.

http://alaskan-mama.simplesite.com

 

[o1marc]

http://alaskan-mama.simplesite.com

That works when I cut and paste, but your link is not live here. Thank you.

I see you are also a money launderer.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

I think we have figured out a way to register the bus as an RV in Georgia until we do the drive up to Alaska. Upon arrival, we will change it to an Alaska-registered RV. My understanding is that my wife is good to drive on her normal Alaska driver's license, but her friend may be supposed to get a Georgia Class F (non-commercial Class B vehicles), depending on what the registration lists for the GVWR. There are no air brake endorsements required (or available) for either Alaska or Georgia. I am still a little worried about some of the (unverified) stories about people getting stopped at the Canada border - perhaps the solution there is to print out the relevant Canadian, Georgian, and Alaskan laws just in case.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

I decided to go ahead and have a friend in Georgia install battery bank now instead of later. I want to make sure we have the wiring diagram correct and this makes sense as a system. I jumped the gun and purchased some of the components already, but if you have a strong recommendation that I change things, it's not too late to do returns.

Charging: either shore power (Iota DLS-45) or from the alternator while driving (Sure Power 12023A Isolator). Will I get too little voltage or not enough off the alternator (I've read both)? Am I risking overloading the alternator if I let my house batteries run down too far?

AC Power: Automatically switches to use shore power when connected (Xantrex ProWatt SW Auto Transfer Switch). Otherwise, I will be using a 2000 watt true sine wave inverter (Xantrex ProWatt 2000). Many people are successfully using much smaller (or non-true sine) systems, and a few are using bigger. From my limited knowledge, I think this will work well for us. For the initial drive up, we will have a refrigerator, a crock pot, a microwave, a washing machine, and a couple AC outlets (not all of which should be run when not hooked up to shore power!)

D/C: Always runs off the batteries. For the initial drive up, we will have some DC lights, a fan for the composting toilet, and some cabin fans.

Battery Bank: 4x inexpensive golf cart batteries give me 430 A/H at 12 volts (Duracell GC2). This should allow us to boondock for a couple days if we are frugal on electricity. If we completely run out of power, we have the (expensive) option of idling the engine (about 2/3 gallon/hour if I read correctly).

Disconnects: A manual disconnect in the battery compartment (180A continuous/1000A Surge Disconnect Switch) disconnects everything. A Remote Inverter On/Off Switch in the cabin turns off AC Power from batteries but does not disable DC power (Xantrex ProWatt SW Remote Switch).

Battery Monitor: An inexpensive unit that monitors voltage and the current (Bayite DC 6.5V-100V LCD). I think it is sufficient, but it wouldn't be hard to swap out later with a Trimetric if I think I need it.

Fuses: One in-line fuse at shore power and one in-line fuse just after the battery bank. Is this sufficient? (ANL-500A). Currently, I do not have plans for any circuit breakers inside the cabin and was instead planning to just use surge protectors on A/C for this initial trip (the cabin will have appliances, bedding, and seating installed but will not really be "finished" until arrival in Alaska).

1. Does this make sense? Is anything installed in the wrong place or the wrong way to work?

2. Did I create a short or something dangerous? Do I need more fuses or different fuses or in different places?

3. Is this appropriately flexible to later be able to add solar power, a generator, or more batteries if we decided to do so down the road?

4. What gauge wiring should I use? Most sources seem to indicate 8 gauge is sufficient but some of the solar people are using 4, 0, or 00. Everything should be short runs leading to and inside the battery compartment. Does the wiring requirement change if I later add solar power?

5. I will need to winterize next winter. If we plan to not use the bus, the recommendation seems to be to bring the batteries inside. If we want to go somewhere in the winter, what are your recommendation to keep the batteries functional at -20 to -50 degrees Fahrenheit outside? Are there any other components I should be worried about in the battery compartment?

 

[o1marc]

I did a Google search for the requirements to register a non commercial school bus in Ga. I came up with a previous post from here and it said this:
"We are residents of Georgia, and the friendly representatives of the Ga DMV informed me that there is no way we can register our vehicle as anything other than a 24-capacity bus. As they explained it to me, there is no way to change classification of the vehicle in this state. As best I understand it, this means that we will need CDLs, and get a worse insurance rate. Am I correct in thinking this? Are there other issues we will face driving a "bus" vs an RV or Motorhome? Should we try to get it re-titled in another state?"

I thought I had some info that might help. You can legally drive a newly purchased vehicle in Ga. for 7 days on the bill of sale. One glitch is you must have insurance. I'm not sure if during that period if I would be required to have a CDL. The next glitch would be that that works in Ga., but I'm not sure about every other state you would be traveling through. If you have to drive it agin after a month sell it to your wife with new BOS.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

A lot of people have had that answer in Georgia. However, at least a few people have been successful. It makes me think we can do it if we're persistent in Georgia, whereas we've hit a brick wall in Alaska.

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f10/registering-bus-as-motorhome-in-ga-9359.html

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f18/registration-worries-in-georgia-7234.html

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f18/is-it-legal-to-register-a-converted-bus-as-a-bus-17555.html

 

[o1marc]

I'm gong to go sit and have a chat tomorrow at my local tag office. It really seems that it depends on who you talk to and what city your in whether you get an acceptable answer or not. I live in Dawson County, far north Ga. and just north of the counties that require emission inspections and such. You can get away with just about anything up here. If the answers I get are acceptable I'll gladly let anyone use my address and help them register here. Checking on insurance was't that big of deal to get done. State Farm won't insure it as a bus, referred me to someone that would, but will insure it as an RV after getting the build requirements.
Dawsonville has 2200 residents, county has only 10k, we're never busy.

 

[Twigg-SKO]

I think we have figured out a way to register the bus as an RV in Georgia until we do the drive up to Alaska. Upon arrival, we will change it to an Alaska-registered RV. My understanding is that my wife is good to drive on her normal Alaska driver's license, but her friend may be supposed to get a Georgia Class F (non-commercial Class B vehicles), depending on what the registration lists for the GVWR. There are no air brake endorsements required (or available) for either Alaska or Georgia. I am still a little worried about some of the (unverified) stories about people getting stopped at the Canada border - perhaps the solution there is to print out the relevant Canadian, Georgian, and Alaskan laws just in case.

Reciprocity ...

Canada accepts US licenses. If you are legal in your home state, you are legal in Canada. Canada also accepts licenses from other Canadian provinces, and they do not all require an air-brake endorsement.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

Got a few of the components:
Battery bank
A/C Refrigerator
Bedding for kids
Composting Toilet
Paint

Planning on getting these within the next few days:
700watt Microwave
Sink
Gas Oven
Stuff to equip inside (pots, pans, cups, plates, utensils, towels, fire extinguishers, CO/smoke monitors, etc.)

Nothing is installed yet. We're going to be a little unconventional in our approach - the intent is to install everything so that it is reasonably comfortable for the drive up then finalize and redo the floorplan upon arrival in Alaska. We'll spend money on the things that we don't plan to change (appliances, bedding, etc.), but then get the cheapest available for other things (flooring, etc.).

Several reasons for this:
1. Time - we don't have enough. This especially becomes important since I have some ideas for the floor and walls/ceiling that will be time-consuming and without them done first, anything installed will need to be removed again anyway
2. Money - there are some things that I would rather delay buying
3. Experience - we're likely to know better what we want after using it. My wife's friend / travelbuddy spent a year living in a little camper with 7 people - I figure they'll be talking a lot on the drive up.
4. Practicality - There will be 4 additional kids for this road trip. Making it comfortable for them requires some changes anyways.

The big challenge now is to be smart about how we do this so we do not waste unnecessary time and money by (essentially) doing everything twice.

As a side note, my wife's drug-addict second-cousin and her unemployed abusive felon husband are likely to have their parental rights terminated soon - there is a remote chance that we could take one of the kids in.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

I'm on a plane for yet another business trip for Uncle Sam.

We are currently doing background checks to possibly adopt my wife's meth-head cousin's kids. Whether it happens depends on whether the court decides to revoke parental rights.

What this means for us:
1. We may need to come up with a floodplain to support 5 or 6 kid bunks (depending on whether we get the baby also or only the 18-month and 3-year old).

2. It may change how we drive the bus from Georgia to Alaska. We might move our timeline a month to the left to do it before we get the kids, or a couple month to the right for me to drive up by myself and a buddy with no kids.

 

[Robin97396]

I think the last option you mentioned is the safest and most realistic, especially at a later date. You and a friend driving up without the kids. I can't imagine a rolling day care with that many kids on a long trip like that. It's a dangerous trip for a couple adults. I don't know if you've made that trip before or not, but there are always people waiting to take advantage.

Be safe. Carry adequate Canadian currency because you'll get a crap exchange rate on the road at gas stations using dollars.

 

[Biscuitsjam]

We made the drive last summer with the three kids in a minivan. Because of timeline issues, it might end up just me and a buddy doing the drive this time, but it comes with the cost of losing a lot of my vacation time.

 

[Robin97396]

Dang you guys are tough. In a minivan. Wow.

I used to do long trips with my kids in a county surplus orange Chev. Suburban, but not near that far. That's what made all my hair fall out. Raising kids.