are these serious issues?

[wild acres]

We're looking to buy our first bus to convert. We found one nearby, already gutted. It's a 1993 38' flatnose FE, Dt466 with an automatic Mt643 Allison transmission.
It checks all our boxes but we know nothing about mechanical stuff and are learning as we go.
So-- guy selling says, "it's probably going to need a front end alignment before going on too long a trip. The 5th gear isn't unlocked." And the engine heats up going up real steep grades (i.e. 6%)

Are front end alignment and the 5th gear issue big problems? Fixable? Cost?
From what I've seen on this forum so far people are asking a lot about unlocking 6th gear... so if we don't even have 5th unlocked that seems bad....
Thanks for any help. We've been reading on here and learning a lot already.

 

[o1marc]

No mention of price which is a big factor. Never heard of 5th being locked, makes me wonder if the tranny shouldn't be verified. I would avoid any bus that already has overheating issues.

 

[Kubla]

Mt643 is a 4 speed non overdrive transmission with a locking torque converter, no 5th gear, how much does it heat up? All busses heat up climbing hills, radiators in school busses are known for being marginal so we watch the temp Guage on hills

 

[wild acres]

thanks and price

Thanks for the responses. They're asking $6200

 

[ewo1]

Thanks for the responses. They're asking $6200

You can get one much cheaper, 50% less at auction.
https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,fl/browse/cataucs?catid=4

good luck !

 

[EastCoastCB]

We're looking to buy our first bus to convert. We found one nearby, already gutted. It's a 1993 38' flatnose FE, Dt466 with an automatic Mt643 Allison transmission.
It checks all our boxes but we know nothing about mechanical stuff and are learning as we go.
So-- guy selling says, "it's probably going to need a front end alignment before going on too long a trip. The 5th gear isn't unlocked." And the engine heats up going up real steep grades (i.e. 6%)

Are front end alignment and the 5th gear issue big problems? Fixable? Cost?
From what I've seen on this forum so far people are asking a lot about unlocking 6th gear... so if we don't even have 5th unlocked that seems bad....
Thanks for any help. We've been reading on here and learning a lot already.

The 643 doesn't have a 5th gear unless you count reverse!
its a 1:1 top gear with no OD. A 4 speed with lockup. good, reliable old mechanical units. Gear the rear appropriately and they're great.
Front end alignment could be as simple as that, or could be worn components.
The engine WILL heat up on steep grades. They weren't even intercooled- they have an aftercooler. My 92 DT466 with 643 definitely did heat up on long steeper grades. You just have to slow down and take it appropriately. Any bus of that vintage with a similar setup will be that way.

Sound like a shady seller or a complete noob who doesn't know what they're even talking about. Proceed with great caution- that price sounds high.

 

[s2mikon]

He may be confusing lock-up with 5th gear. That would cause overheating. It may have a failed lockup clutch. A steep discount is in order here.

 

[s2mikon]

I should add that a dt466 and MT643 transmission is a very reliable no BS power train. All mechanical. If you can buy it right it would be worth it to rebuild the front end and the transmission. It would last a life time. The engine can be in frame overhauled with liner kits too. Buses are getting hard to get now and most of the newer post emission buses should just be scrapped for steel.

 

[wild acres]

this is all amazingly helpful... what about this one...

SO THANKFUL FOR THIS INPUT AND HELP!!

Any thoughts on this one-
"Still in service transporting students, this 2001 IC is an 84 passenger bus and has 20k miles of service life left to run as a school bus in Tennessee. It has been very well cared for over its lifespan and the DT466 engine has been rebuilt. A hose busted a few years ago and the bus ran hot and driver didn’t stop running it is the reason for rebuild. Tires are all good and it drives and runs great. One of the last super dependable buses made before Emissions. "

They're asking $6000
It's got an MD 3060 Allison transmission. No major rust.

I feel like if we can just get a solid bus then we can figure the rest out as we go! but nervous that we'll get off to a bad start if we don't have a good bus to start!

 

[o1marc]

I would say it's worth $3500-$4000. But then those good ones are getting more scarce, so add some, good motor, so add some. I'd offer $4500 and settle under $5k. This based knowing it's coming straight from the school and not bid on an auction.

 

[Simplicity-SKO]

SO THANKFUL FOR THIS INPUT AND HELP!!

"Still in service transporting students, this 2001 IC is an 84 passenger bus and has 20k miles of service life left to run as a school bus in Tennessee.

They're asking $6000
It's got an MD 3060 Allison transmission. No major rust.

DT466 is a great engine. The DT466E apparently not so much. The DT466 is mechanical and is very easily rebuilt.
When did they rebuild it?
How many miles are on the rebuild?

Here's my question, if it has 20k miles left (=s two years) why are they selling it?? It could be that its age. Many school districts have an age or mileage limit before they sell their vehicles. Since it's a 2001, that's 20 years, so it may just be that.

Despite it being a great engine and rebuilt, I'd still have it inspected.


The 3060 is a great tranny! I'm not positive if all of them have a 6th gear, but for those that do, sometimes it's "locked" out of use. To "unlock" it, you need the correct software and cable connections, or pay a dealer to unlock it.

Again, despite it being a great transmission, I'd have it inspected. If it's not shifting properly, it would be expensive to fix.

Inspections = Investment + Insurance that you "likely" won't have any surprises down the road....literally, down the road. Think of it as part of the purchase price.

As a school bus driver, I've driven many IC 40' buses of around that era. The buses bodies are fine. Nothing special. I found them to have plenty of head room. Depending on how tall you all are, headroom might be an issue in some makes/models.

The only thing I'll tell you about IC is that their dealerships are tied to the corporation. They can't do anything major to the powertrain without "permission". At least that's what I've experienced and others have echoed. Yet, there are plenty of others that can work on a DT466 and Allison transmissions are independent of IC, so you're good there.

My only concern is the HP rating of the engine. I "think" they are a bit under powered, so check and see. Generally, the engine and transmissions are paired, so a more powerful engine gets a bigger transmission, and the 3060 is a big tranny.

Since it's a 40' bus, the engine has to be able to push it down the road. Many school buses were NOT made to cruise the freeway or climb hills and summits. Having an engine with enough HP (speed for cruising) and Torque (grunt to get you going and up and over big bumps in the road, hills) is important to keeping the engine EGTs, oil, coolant and transmission temps down. The cooler running the drive train, the longer it will last and the less problems you will have.

Hope this helps.

 

[wild acres]

Steve- They said there aren't "many miles" on the rebuild. Apparently a driver "let the bus run hot when a hose blew and cooked the engine" and that caused the rebuild.
He said that this has been used as a spare for the school fleet and they got a newer bus so this one is being sold.

Appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions!

 

[wild acres]

Thanks! The numbers help a lot to give us somehwere to start!

 

[Simplicity-SKO]

Steve- They said there aren't "many miles" on the rebuild. Apparently a driver "let the bus run hot when a hose blew and cooked the engine" and that caused the rebuild.
He said that this has been used as a spare for the school fleet and they got a newer bus so this one is being sold.

Appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions!

Hmmm, "arn't that many miles" seems elusive. If they rebuilt the engine, they should know exactly how many miles it has on it. I know our transportation shop would know.

If it doesn't have that many miles on it and it still has two years of service miles left in it, why sell it? We just got a bunch of brand new buses, so I know we'll be sending some of the older (same types/sizes) to auction. Which ones? The worse ones.

It's just sounding a little suspicious. Yes, when it comes to possible expensive repairs, I get a little paranoid. But, my therapist says that's okay!

 

[Rock-N-Ruth]

Thanks for the responses. They're asking $6200

Run away. Don't walk, sprint.