Basic Electrical Help

[Beeb]

Hi everybody!

I've learned a ton through this forum, though I've mostly been a lurker. My wife and I purchased our bus at the beginning of this month, and we're steadily moving through the process of gutting it. While we still have some time left in that process, I'm getting more and more nervous about the electrical work once I reach that stage. I have virtually no knowledge of electricity. I'm partially still convinced that it's all just black magic. I typically can learn how to do things if I watch a good video or read some good instructions, but I can't seem to find a good step-by-step walkthrough for this, so I was wondering if anyone here could help me out or point me toward a good instructional place (video/website/book/etc) where I could learn. I partly want to just hire an electrician, but I'd much prefer to know how my future skoolie works so I can fix things myself. Here's where I'm at:

- I've figured out how to calculate how much usage we'll need. I've got my very own kill-a-watt, and I'm monitoring different devices. Ultimately, we'd like to go solar eventually, though maybe not immediately due to finances. But I can figure out how to calculate how many panels/batteries we will need. It's more how to wire everything once I start to install it. That's where I get lost.

- I'd like to do some 12v and some 120v if possible. (12v would be stuff like led lights, phone chargers, backup camera, and other various things that we can run on 12v) But I don't know how to connect it all.

• How do I connect to the batteries without electrocuting myself?
• How do I know what fuse box to buy, and how do I connect each device to it? (12v & 120v)
• How do I ground everything so I don't electrocute my entire family? (12v & 120v)
• How do I know what size wire to get? (12v & 120v)
• How do I connect some lights on one circuit with a switch, and other lights on another circuit with their own switch? (12v)
• I saw something on here about grounding or not grounding depending on if my inverter is... grounded or bonded or something? How do I know and what does that all mean?
• When I get my inverter/charger, how do I connect that into the circuit, and how do I wire it so I can connect to shore power?
• Umm... and while I'm at it, how do I add a cigarette lighter plug connected to the existing fuse box so I can use my GPS and backup camera when driving?
• I'm considering the possibility of having a generator to top off my batteries on cloudy days. How do I wire that into this huge equation?

:volts:

 

[BlackJohn]

I understand your willingness to learn but a tradesman spends many hours to gain the knowledge you want to have, thru input here.

Nobody can do that so hire an electrician. You can still understand how it works even if you didn't build it.
Does a dentist fix his own cavities?
I think the potential for you to get hurt is huge. Why do so many think they can do this on their own or with tutoring?
What is your life worth playing in all these systems.
My 2 cents,


John

 

[Beeb]

I understand your willingness to learn but a tradesman spends many hours to gain the knowledge you want to have, thru input here.

Nobody can do that so hire an electrician. You can still understand how it works even if you didn't build it.
Does a dentist fix his own cavities?
I think the potential for you to get hurt is huge. Why do so many think they can do this on their own or with tutoring?
What is your life worth playing in all these systems.
My 2 cents,


John

Thanks BlackJohn for your 2 cents! I am strongly considering that option, as this is all a bit overwhelming, and i'm not too keen on dying.

Would any ol' electrician be able to do all this? Or would I need someone who specializes in auto electric? Or an RV specialist?

 

[BlackJohn]

Thanks BlackJohn for your 2 cents! I am strongly considering that option, as this is all a bit overwhelming, and i'm not too keen on dying.

Would any ol' electrician be able to do all this? Or would I need someone who specializes in auto electric? Or an RV specialist?

Glad you responded because I did not want to alarm you really, just tell you this gets complicated for anyone.
No, just any ol electrician likely can't do this, partly yes. You need a mix of competency due to the use of ac, dc auto electrics, battery experience, computer maintenance etc, helps and there is a lot that has to work together for a bus to run and be safe as a camper. All these systems should work flawlessly together in an ideal world.

Along with that there must be an ability to troubleshoot any of these systems or face the consequences.

Your best bet is to read these forums and see and hear what we are talking about.
Most end up diving into things they do not understand and then post here because they tore something apart without any understanding. These can be expensive to fix and hard to determine here from a distance. This doubles when the person cannot explain his/her predicament in proper electrical terminology. So it pays to get some understanding.
None of us knew anything but hunger when we were born. Some people take different paths so do not feel bad about being overwhelmed.


You can build a safe bus though, with some thought.



John

 

[JDOnTheGo]

Howdy Beeb!

The good news is that none of this is rocket science. :biggrin:

The bad news is that some of it can kill you.

It's probably best to start with DC power - specifically 12VDC (or less, like 5VDC). 12VDC is a very benign thing to the human body. I suppose there might be some conditions where that is not the case - maybe if you have a pacemaker or something. Maybe start with a small 12VDC battery (car battery or even smaller) get some LED lights, a few switches, a few fuses, and start playing around. Connecting/Disconnecting a 12VDC battery by hand is done all the time and it doesn't hurt the body. That said, if you have a huge amount of current running thru those cables when you disconnect them, it will be like a welder (huge arc) and will melt metal and burn skin. So, start with very small current devices (LED lights). DC is easy to understand - positive and negative. Lots of good articles on the web, it'll just take some reading and questions to make sense of it all. There might even be some "electric learning kits" available that could be helpful (something like this??).

AC, on the other hand - especially at 110 or 220 volts - is lethal. Don't mess with it til you understand it.

How do I know what size wire to get? (12v & 120v)

A wire size calculator and/or chart is your friend. Pick one that is for the appropriate power and voltage (12VDC). You then plug in the length of the wire and the number of amps that will be passing thru it. This then tells you the resistance and the requires size/gauge of wire (simple answer but hopefully enough to get to the next step).

I saw something on here about grounding or not grounding depending on if my inverter is... grounded or bonded or something? How do I know and what does that all mean?

Don't worry about that yet - an 'advanced' topic but really not an issue to be worried about.

When I get my inverter/charger, how do I connect that into the circuit, and how do I wire it so I can connect to shore power?

Again, baby steps.

Umm... and while I'm at it, how do I add a cigarette lighter plug connected to the existing fuse box so I can use my GPS and backup camera when driving?

A great starting point! First question; do you have an open fuse slot or do you need to tap into an existing circuit?

 

[Beeb]

A great starting point! First question; do you have an open fuse slot or do you need to tap into an existing circuit?

Thanks for all your help! I definitely will not try to do anything that's over my head. But I also want to learn. Ideally, I'd love some professional to do it and explain to me what they're doing while they do it. But most professionals don't want to babysit me.

I'll have to look into the fuse slot. At the moment, my fuse box is behind a door that is stuck closed. I have a bus mechanic coming out on Friday to remove my wheelchair lift and rear heater. Hoping I can get him to figure out how to open it for me. Once I know, I'll get back to you!

 

[JDOnTheGo]

Ideally, I'd love some professional to do it and explain to me what they're doing while they do it. But most professionals don't want to babysit me.

Nor do they want to work on an RV/bus (from what I hear).

I'll have to look into the fuse slot. At the moment, my fuse box is behind a door that is stuck closed. I have a bus mechanic coming out on Friday to remove my wheelchair lift and rear heater.

Your options generally boil down to an open fuse slot so creating a new fused 'circuit' or tapping into an existing circuit. If you tap into existing, be sure to pick one that has sufficient fuse capacity for the load you are adding. You can do this with one of these or these (or similar, depending on what type of fuse block you have) or tap into the wire (with one of these, butt splice, or something along those lines (depends how 'professional' you want it to be).

 

[Beeb]

First question; do you have an open fuse slot or do you need to tap into an existing circuit?

Ok! So, I took pictures of everything behind the big scary door. It's a mess. Looks like I have fuse slots open (I think). Here are the pictures I took. I labeled them so I know I'm looking at the right spot. I think "Picture G" is where my fuses are, based on what I've seen in my car before...

:Thanx:

 

[somewhereinusa]

G is mostly circuit breakers with a few fuses and relays, looks pretty clearly marked. E looks to be circuit breakers although, I haven't seen the type before, again pretty clearly marked. Same for A and B. D is just a terminal block, a place to hook up wires. Believe me that is NOT a mess, looks like everything is pretty clearly marked with nothing Extra added. You have the wiring diagrams right in front of you.

 

[JDOnTheGo]

From the photos, A/B (same thing, I think?) would be the easiest place to add a new circuit.

So, get yourself whatever socket you need (maybe like this??).

The wire size is important. How long will the wire be to reach from this fuse panel to the socket that you are installing? Remember wire doesn't usually straight from point A to B, include plenty of extra for all the round and round. With that info, look at this chart and decide what gauge wire you need. An example would be 30' of wire carrying 5 amp (12VDC) would require 16 gauge wire.

If you don't have a crimper, connectors, and such; you'll need them. Cheap tools (and connectors/terminals) are usually not worth your time. Get reasonable quality stuff and save yourself some frustration. The wire terminals found at most auto parts stores are not the best but will do the job.

If you go with parts like I mentioned above, you'll need some female quick connectors like these.

That should get you setup for the 12VDC positive (red) wire/power. You'll also need a grounding (black) wire from socket to ground. I'm not familiar with your rig to know anything about how it is currently wired. Sometimes there are grounding points available in various places, sometimes you have to run it all the way back to near the battery, and sometimes just grounding with an existing bolt/screw (into the chassis/frame) is sufficient. This is where a multi-meter is very handy (to determine where ground exists).

 

[xrw44]

use only stranded [auto] wire, not Romex housewire

Marine wire has to be tin plated to combat the effects of salt/water on copper...not applicable to our buses.

It is now past my bed time so i will be brief.

12 and 14 gauge power cords will do 115VAC.
16 and 18 gauge pairs will do 12VDC.
solar panels and batteries will need 10, 8, 6, and larger.

you asked good questions. you can likely learn to do it if you are a "detail" person.
you seem to have common sense so watch several youtube on wiring outlets etc and consider the source!

You can see how i did my rather extensive electrical system in my album. You may not need it all. i have 120v AirC [a necessity during build] and a small 120v fridge, sink, 3 fans, 20? LED lights, six 12v motion detectors, 12? outlets, two fuse blocks [10 fuses ea], a small 100A breaker panel with 14 breakers [now using 5], 500W solar power input, a charge controller, full-sine inverter, 30A shore power input, a manual switch selects shore or inverter input. A 4" fan on thermostat, and 2 old backup batteries that handle the emergency lighting, three 1" conduits go down to the 600Ah of deep-cycle batteries, three volt meters to show "bus", "solar" and "closet" voltage, and a 115V battery charger that can be connected to any one of them, a 4ft copper-clad ground rod is connected [8ga] to an 8" x3/8" all-thread that connects to the bus body and a ground-bar [for AC and DC] under the breaker box, that has separate ground and neutral bars.

 

[Beeb]

From the photos, A/B (same thing, I think?) would be the easiest place to add a new circuit.

Ok!

The distance shouldn't be too far. Everything is already located fairly close to the cab. I'll have to figure out how to get the wire through everything, but I haven't poked around enough yet to know where I'm running it. I'm pretty sure there are a few options, but I'll have to look into that more to know exactly how much length I need.

In order to connect to the... thing (what's that called? A fuse box?) in photos A/B (yes - same location), what do I need to buy? Looks like there's some kind of fuse plug thingy (I don't know my electrical vocabulary yet). What do I search for / where do I look to get one of those? I assume I need to get one that works for the power draw I'll need (I'll have to check the GPS I'll be using and the monitor for the backup camera - which I haven't bought yet).

This is where a multi-meter is very handy (to determine where ground exists).

How do I use a multi-meter to determine where ground exists?

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Beeb]

Marine wire has to be tin plated to combat the effects of salt/water on copper...not applicable to our buses.

It is now past my bed time so i will be brief.

12 and 14 gauge power cords will do 115VAC.
16 and 18 gauge pairs will do 12VDC.
solar panels and batteries will need 10, 8, 6, and larger.

you asked good questions. you can likely learn to do it if you are a "detail" person.
you seem to have common sense so watch several youtube on wiring outlets etc and consider the source!

You can see how i did my rather extensive electrical system in my album. You may not need it all. i have 120v AirC [a necessity during build] and a small 120v fridge, sink, 3 fans, 20? LED lights, six 12v motion detectors, 12? outlets, two fuse blocks [10 fuses ea], a small 100A breaker panel with 14 breakers [now using 5], 500W solar power input, a charge controller, full-sine inverter, 30A shore power input, a manual switch selects shore or inverter input. A 4" fan on thermostat, and 2 old backup batteries that handle the emergency lighting, three 1" conduits go down to the 600Ah of deep-cycle batteries, three volt meters to show "bus", "solar" and "closet" voltage, and a 115V battery charger that can be connected to any one of them, a 4ft copper-clad ground rod is connected [8ga] to an 8" x3/8" all-thread that connects to the bus body and a ground-bar [for AC and DC] under the breaker box, that has separate ground and neutral bars.

Thanks! I'll look through your album!

 

[MrBoogie]

MrBoogie Takes A Bus To Work

Hi there, I did my own wiring but I also pulled a permit & upgraded my house to 200 amps. Most everyone is suggesting you get a professional to help with this. I suggest an RV electrician that can answer & solve almost all of your problems. Even I had to talk to my cousin that is an RV tech about some of this due to the DC side of things & wiring the batteries correctly. You & especially your family are far more important that saving extra dollars trying to do this your self. Have fun Be save & good times on the open road!

 

[Beeb]

Hi there, I did my own wiring but I also pulled a permit & upgraded my house to 200 amps. Most everyone is suggesting you get a professional to help with this. I suggest an RV electrician that can answer & solve almost all of your problems. Even I had to talk to my cousin that is an RV tech about some of this due to the DC side of things & wiring the batteries correctly. You & especially your family are far more important that saving extra dollars trying to do this your self. Have fun Be save & good times on the open road!

MrBoogie, thanks for your input! Yeah - definitely not going to try to do anything beyond my ability, which means I'll definitely be needing some help. I see that you're in Pensacola. I am too (Brownsville area)! Is there anyone local you would recommend to help us with this?

 

[Beeb]

One more question. I'm starting off simple - trying to just add a cigarette lighter outlet so I can plug in my backup camera system and my GPS.

I bought this backup camera system on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073VDRG2W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It says the power consumption is 9V - 35V,500mA-20A for the monitor, and 12V-24V DC ,500mA-20A for each camera (it comes with two). That seems like a big range. How do I make sure I wire the cigarette lighter socket to handle the right amount of power? I bought a receptacle on Amazon, and I see that it says:

Input: 12VDC, 8A
Output: 12V - 8A max

Does that mean my receptacle isn't going to be able to handle my camera system? I'm a bit confused by the range given for the camera.

 

[brokedown-SKO]

I think you found a lazy seller. Those little screens take almost nothing to run. Certainly you're not going to put 240 watts into it, more like.. 10 watts.

 

[Beeb]

haha ok. I was hoping that was all it was!