Blue Bird Electrical Manual needed / no brake lights

[imkzru]

Does anyone have a copy of the Body Electrical and / or the Master Chassis Electrical and / or Standard Equipment for a 2002 RE Blue Bird bus MODEL = A3 RE 8400 CHASSIS NO. F203657
My issue
I have all lights: turn, high beam / low beam, clearance, hazard
reverse lights - unknown at this point
no brake lights. the wire number is 1316 for stop lights and 1315 for running lights when I go to blue-bird.com and enter my VIN and download the DIAGRAM,WRG,BRAKE,ELEC ENGINE TC it has all the wrong wire numbers. I also can not find the brake switch it is not behind the pedal does anyone know of its location or even what it looks like,

I have uploaded all the manuals I have maybe someone can use them but they are for a FE and I have a RE

manuals - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[imkzru]

well things went from bad to worse,
After reading my issue might be the flasher / led lights I removed the brake and license plate lights and put back in the old lights. Now i lost dash lights and all head lights. the N on the shifter is not lit
hazard and blinkers work still as they are on a different circuit if i remember correctly.
I'm calling it a night before a match finds its way to the bus

 

[ewo1]

How skilled are you with a voltmeter and digging in deep into the electrical world?

forget about the wire numbers, they can call them anything they want. What is more important is how the connections are made.

the "N" on the shifter is dark, bus will NEVER start! that needs fixing.

At first glance sounds like you might have an open or loose main power feed wire to the whole system.

Can you spend time working on it or are you too busy and on a tight schedule?

 

[ewo1]

also, where you been for 5 years? It ok to come when you need help but sharing info is big here...so share pics of your bus for starters!

 

[ewo1]

The 04545 drawing, On the right hand frame rail you will find both the starter and alternator ground lug. Open them up, clean and re-attach.

Remove. clean and re-attach both positive and negative battery terminals. and make sure your battery is at 13 volts and not 12.6v. You need a fully charged battery.

Next locate the 200 amp mega fuse, test fuse, remove wires, test fuse with ohmmeter, clean contacts and securely re-attach.

battery disconnect switch, remove wires, clean and securely reattach.

these three basic things, you might have looked at them and said they were good but i need you to follow please. We need to be 100% sure your connections are golden!
This will help ensure as you go forward, you did not miss something.

Fe or RE makes no difference. wires will be in different locations but the connections are still the same.

 

[ewo1]

Drawing 42472. right side corner is fuse block, below that 2 connectors that feed you fuse box. find them and check for voltage using chassis as ground.

once you confirm clean power to fuse blocks then you can move forward .
Until then, shortcuts! NO !!!
I almost forgot, locate you ECU and TCM fuses. Your TCM fuse is either blown or not getting power!

 

[imkzru]

How skilled are you with a voltmeter and digging in deep into the electrical world?

forget about the wire numbers, they can call them anything they want. What is more important is how the connections are made.

the "N" on the shifter is dark, bus will NEVER start! that needs fixing.

At first glance sounds like you might have an open or loose main power feed wire to the whole system.

Can you spend time working on it or are you too busy and on a tight schedule?

okay let me attack your questions one by one
Electrical world does not bother me. I lived it for 15years and went through the electrical apprenticeship then went to work in Orlando repairing animation on rides before I moved to Tennessee. I have forgotten alot but I can hold my own.

I found the issue for the dark N. When removing the LED lights and putting back the old lights I must have hit the disable engine toggle switch in the engine compartment. Turned it back on and got the N back

Me and my wife both work 40 hours a week she gets up at 2 am and I get up at 4 am and do not get back home till after 5 pm. This makes it almost impossible to get anything done during the week. leaving the weekends mostly to work on the bus. but I need assistance with this issue so I will do what I have to, to get this working.

long story short. UPS backed down my driveway at about 20mph and hit my bus. Now I have to take it to the body shop for some tin knocking. I was 6 months out before I would be ready to move bus but that has been pushed forward to now. But I can not take off from work during the school year

 

[imkzru]

also, where you been for 5 years? It ok to come when you need help but sharing info is big here...so share pics of your bus for starters!

Reason 1
To be honest I wanted to youtube the bus build but than heard people talking about posting videos and image of the build and having DOT come down. That is why I did not youtube the build and why I have not posted images of the build

Reason 2
Since it is just me and my wife doing the build and only having the weekends to work on the bus "that when I do not have grass to cut or it rains or insert something needing fixing here"

We have not spray foamed yet. Us being slow is an understatement.
that with health, people passing, and life. it has taken us 5 years to do what little we have done

 

[imkzru]

The 04545 drawing, On the right hand frame rail you will find both the starter and alternator ground lug. Open them up, clean and re-attach.

Remove. clean and re-attach both positive and negative battery terminals. and make sure your battery is at 13 volts and not 12.6v. You need a fully charged battery.

Next locate the 200 amp mega fuse, test fuse, remove wires, test fuse with ohmmeter, clean contacts and securely re-attach.

battery disconnect switch, remove wires, clean and securely reattach.

these three basic things, you might have looked at them and said they were good but i need you to follow please. We need to be 100% sure your connections are golden!
This will help ensure as you go forward, you did not miss something.

Fe or RE makes no difference. wires will be in different locations but the connections are still the same.

Getting the N back negates most of what you asked me to do.

"Remove. clean and re-attach both positive and negative battery terminals. and make sure your battery is at 13 volts and not 12.6v. You need a fully charged battery."

I have two brand new batteries but I do not have them in parallel and have only connected one for lights and troubleshooting. Do not ask why I did not connect them together. made sense in my mind since I was not starting the bus

"Fe or RE makes no difference. wires will be in different locations but the connections are still the same."

Correct. but I thought different chassis model = different wiring?

 

[ewo1]

I know the feeling...life!
ok the "n" on the tranny push pad had me thinking you had a global wiring problem... glad you got it back on. did any other circuits come back on?
Bus starts and drives ok ???

I would go back to the fuse panel wiring, check the the 12 feed to the breaker panel
If your bus has circuit breakers vs fuses, reset ALL the breakers! Both fuses and breakers good idea to pull them out and reseat them. sometimes it simply corrosion on the contacts...surface rust.

for each light circuit that does not operate make sure there is output voltage on the fuse and then check the other "final" end of that circuit-wire.

Process of elimination.
could be as easy and simple as an open common ground.

Make/post a check list of each circuit currently in trouble so we can go one by one.
Weekend trouble shooting is fine with me, i'll do my best to help.

 

[ewo1]

Getting the N back negates most of what you asked me to do.

"Remove. clean and re-attach both positive and negative battery terminals. and make sure your battery is at 13 volts and not 12.6v. You need a fully charged battery."

I have two brand new batteries but I do not have them in parallel and have only connected one for lights and troubleshooting. Do not ask why I did not connect them together. made sense in my mind since I was not starting the bus

"Fe or RE makes no difference. wires will be in different locations but the connections are still the same."

Correct. but I thought different chassis model = different wiring?

Again, all engine and all lights are almost wired up the same,
Few minor "appliances" might be found in between like say a body control module but for the most part is the same...
the 2 batterie's in parallel is best for starting but yes, one bat for 12v testing is fine.

If she starts and runs then we can go straight to the fuse panel.

 

[imkzru]

Drawing 42472. right side corner is fuse block, below that 2 connectors that feed you fuse box. find them and check for voltage using chassis as ground.

once you confirm clean power to fuse blocks then you can move forward .
Until then, shortcuts! NO !!!
I almost forgot, locate you ECU and TCM fuses. Your TCM fuse is either blown or not getting power!

Where are you finding drawing numbers? The PDFs I have only page numbers are searchable

 

[ewo1]

Where are you finding drawing numbers? The PDFs I have only page numbers are searchable

Unit Dashboard | Portal

vantage.blue-bird.com

 

[imkzru]

I know the feeling...life!
ok the "n" on the tranny push pad had me thinking you had a global wiring problem... glad you got it back on. did any other circuits come back on?
Bus starts and drives ok ???

I would go back to the fuse panel wiring, check the the 12 feed to the breaker panel
If your bus has circuit breakers vs fuses, reset ALL the breakers! Both fuses and breakers good idea to pull them out and reseat them. sometimes it simply corrosion on the contacts...surface rust.

for each light circuit that does not operate make sure there is output voltage on the fuse and then check the other "final" end of that circuit-wire.

Process of elimination.
could be as easy and simple as an open common ground.

Make/post a check list of each circuit currently in trouble so we can go one by one.
Weekend trouble shooting is fine with me, i'll do my best to help.

circuits come back on? no when I turn the key I use to hear a bunch of relays. Now I here the two solenoids up front and a few clicks in the back.

Bus starts and drives ok ???
have not tried either

I checked all fuses on dash and in engine compartment and all are good

I have blinkers, hazards, running lights "on separate switch" do not have dash lights, high beams or low beams, stop lights,

issue happen when
I had all lights except for brake lights. read that the red LED lights may not draw enough so I may need resisters or a flasher that's LED friendly.
Removed red LED lights and put back in the old lights. both brake and license plate lights
turned switch to park lights. no lights
turned key and nothing no lights
turned switch to head lights nothing
hit high beams and nothing
turned off key and pouted

 

[imkzru]

Unit Dashboard | Portal

vantage.blue-bird.com

 

[ewo1]

drawing 015028
CONTROL, WIRING, CL,MARKER,ID, LIGHTS

10 amp circuit breaker and K1 relay. Check for power and operation.
Check circuit breaker for input and output voltage.
Power at relay coil.

 

[ewo1]

View attachment 1339786

my bad...sorry... 0024472
click on wiring schematics and the full list should be there.

 

[imkzru]

drawing 015028
CONTROL, WIRING, CL,MARKER,ID, LIGHTS

10 amp circuit breaker and K1 relay. Check for power and operation.
Check circuit breaker for input and output voltage.
Power at relay coil.

okay here we go.

1. with nothing connected to batteries = 13v
2. After connecting leads to one battery = 13v
3. after turning key to run position = 12v "only have one battery connected"
4. the K1 contactor on my is located in the fuse box in the engine compartment and is labeled K1 Starter = I had 12v to left side only.
5. decided to check power distribution box under window on drivers side.
5a both solenoids on the top left had 12v in and out.
5b Checked power at all points down the two center rails on that box and had 12v at all points
6. Went in bus "instrument cluster is out and turn over all ready" saw I had no dash lights
7. removed headlight park switch and checked power on 2b and 5b "my switch only connects 5a to 5b and 2a to 2b it is NOT like the diagram" had power on 2b and 5b.
7a plugged headlight / park switch back in and got dash lights!
7b checked head light day time running lights "low beams" with switch in the park position and had lights
7c checked high beams and had lights

Note
all lights tail / tag lights had been disconnected on back of bus before today.

Thoughts
bad switch? ordered a head light / park switch and a dash dimmer switch from Mid West Bus
short in switch base?
did i wiggle the instrument cluster when i unplugged the headlight / park switch?
for some reason I do not think I'm done with this issue.
This weekend I'm going to press my luck and remove the old lights again and try again with LEDs

silly question but do you know if the bus needs to be running for the brake lights to work or the key only has to be in the run position. I can not remember....

Not sure why K1 is different but here is a link to what I have been using in case you wanted it page 47, 48 and 97 of Electrical (Separate) cover head lights and running lights







'

 

[Carl635]

okay here we go.

1. with nothing connected to batteries = 13v
2. After connecting leads to one battery = 13v
3. after turning key to run position = 12v "only have one battery connected"
4. the K1 contactor on my is located in the fuse box in the engine compartment and is labeled K1 Starter = I had 12v to left side only.
5. decided to check power distribution box under window on drivers side.
5a both solenoids on the top left had 12v in and out.
5b Checked power at all points down the two center rails on that box and had 12v at all points
6. Went in bus "instrument cluster is out and turn over all ready" saw I had no dash lights
7. removed headlight park switch and checked power on 2b and 5b "my switch only connects 5a to 5b and 2a to 2b it is NOT like the diagram" had power on 2b and 5b.
7a plugged headlight / park switch back in and got dash lights!
7b checked head light day time running lights "low beams" with switch in the park position and had lights
7c checked high beams and had lights

Note
all lights tail / tag lights had been disconnected on back of bus before today.

Thoughts
bad switch? ordered a head light / park switch and a dash dimmer switch from Mid West Bus
short in switch base?
did i wiggle the instrument cluster when i unplugged the headlight / park switch?
for some reason I do not think I'm done with this issue.
This weekend I'm going to press my luck and remove the old lights again and try again with LEDs

silly question but do you know if the bus needs to be running for the brake lights to work or the key only has to be in the run position. I can not remember....

Not sure why K1 is different but here is a link to what I have been using in case you wanted it page 47, 48 and 97 of Electrical (Separate) cover head lights and running lights







'

Does the bus have air brakes? If so, the brake light switch is usually an air pressure switch, requires air pressure from the brake pedal to turn the lights on, not just pedal movement.
Carl

 

[ewo1]

Looks like the bulk of you wiring is ok, maybe some loose connections resolved from moving things around?


Your next issue is the rear lighting?

Brake switch will have 12v on one side but without air pressure in the line you will not see a brake light signal to the light bulb as Carl365 noted.

for testing either air up the system or use a jumper wire on the brake pedal and just jump the terminals to send power to the brake light.

the K1 relay is real simple to understand.
It has a coil side and a contact switching side.

coil side pos. 12v & ground - apply signal to the coil will flip the contacts from one side to the other.

Pull the light switch on the dash, sends signal to the coil flipping the contacts for lights to come on.