BUSJAMIN BUSSON

[cessna175]

If that parking brake is pneumatic, it may dump excess air once engaged. A lot of P brakes are simply manual with an adjustment on the brake handle itself. Don.t let the parking brake scare you off from a purchase. The fiber shoe can be relined by most big truck brake shops

 

[Carl635]

Here you go, nothing scary.

Electromagnetic Braking Systems - Telma S.A.S.

It's an electromagnetic brake retarder, very effective.

 

[cessna175]

Wow ,that's a nice add on for safety. I did glance at the link. That rascal just might work as an E brake. I'm going to give them a call soon. My bus has air brakes and weighs in at 29,140 lbs. thankyou for the link.

 

[Busjamin]

Oh ****. Now I want one!

 

[cessna175]

Certainly couldn't hurt as an add on feature. The price might hurt though! It might also require a modified drive shaft for installation.

 

[Busjamin]

If that parking brake is pneumatic, it may dump excess air once engaged. A lot of P brakes are simply manual with an adjustment on the brake handle itself. Don.t let the parking brake scare you off from a purchase. The fiber shoe can be relined by most big truck brake shops

I bailed on this one nonetheless. I know I was only giving it a chance because it is close. Tbh it was a bit of a bucket. I've all but decided on RE. I can find something much much better, just need to be a little patient.

I do appreciate the input and all the feedback from everyone, really. I've done nothing but surf the auctions/classifieds and consume content on this forum since I started this thread. I'm getting this damn bus, and it's not going up on FBM with the seat removed and a shitty insulation system glued in place, all covered by untreated plywood...

I tried to apologize to my partner for being buried in the internet all day and she just laughed. She knows I'm having fun even if I do have a bit of Charlie Day energy at the moment.

 

[nikitis]

Better to be somewhat picky, but not overly picky. Be picky on shape/type because you have to look at it all day, and Be picky on condition of the Drive Train. The rest can be mended (usually cheaply enough). This is my philosophy.

Then just pull the trigger and deal with what comes. It will always be something for a $3500 bus. Just expect it.

 

[Busjamin]

I feel like I exhausted the nationwide inventory of buses for auction or private sale about two weeks ago.

Now I'm trying not to go insane as I continuously rotate through GovDeals > PublicSurplus > Purple Wave > RichieBros > Craigslist > Facebook > Skoolie.net > SkoolieLivin > Driving around the county looking for parked buses...eventually rotating back to GovDeals hoping someone that works for a school district out west has woken up and listed some decent buses.

SO, in the meantime I decided to try and learn to weld.

I've run a total of about 6" of weld bead in my life. My roommate in college had a flux-core machine and showed me around it for maybe five minutes before turning me loose on my rusty old Volvo exhaust. An '87 Volvo 240 5-cyl with a side-pipe muffler delete sounds...well it just sounds. Of the thirteen vehicles I have so far owned, that one was my favorite and I regret selling it.

It's kind of crazy to think about that being before my entire career in construction. I haven't picked up a welding torch since, so I was starting from scratch, but I've always been interested in welding so I think over time I absorbed some knowledge that helped me get a head start. I went out to Harbor Freight and grabbed an Easy-Flux 125 machine and all the necessary accessories. Here's what it looked like when I first started about a week ago:

Pretty rough

On the first day I pretty much just ****ed around with the machine, seeing what I could figure out on my own. From there I did a lot of reading and watching videos on all aspects of what I was doing. Here is the resulting progress after about a week of educating myself and practicing 2-3hr each day:

I popped the breaker, hence not running it out.

Ladies and gentlemen we have penetration!

Penetration is key so I was pretty happy with the etched section I saw today. Cranked up the heat, but this unfortunately overwhelmed the duty cycle on this little HF unit. Seems like it can handle about 5-6" of weld on 1/4" material before it's tripping the breaker. This could prove tiresome when fabricating for the bus.

I also have access to a bigger MIG machine and jumped on that once I was feeling better about laying a bead:

The switch to MIG from FCAW was jarring. I mentioned spray transfer...well, I know I achieved it with some of my first test beads because I thought the welder wasn't running until I saw a fat, smooth bead showing up. This was before I even knew there were multiple transfer modes...and I can't seem to get it back into spray now! I shouldn't really bother trying because I only have C25 gas to work with, but that hummm was SO satisfying.

The MIG will be nice to have around for cosmetic stuff that I want to look nicer, or maybe for some bodywork. For anything that needs strength I'll stick with the Fluxcore for the best chance at a strong joint.

 

[cessna175]

Welding is a blast. I've been welding and fabricating since I was a youngster. It certainly looks like your doing very well. Keep up the great work!

 

[Busjamin]

Welding is a blast. I've been welding and fabricating since I was a youngster. It certainly looks like your doing very well. Keep up the great work!

Thanks man! Having only scratched the surface I'm already having a lot of fun.

 

[Busjamin]

OK I reached the edge of burnout after a rollercoaster 48 hours. Happy to be at a point in my life when I can see and acknowledge that. Gonna rant for a sec to get it out of my head and commit to having a good weekend. The auctions seem to have slowed down and I'm leaning on private listings more this past week or so. I am admittedly mentally spent, irritated and need to take some deep breaths!
_

The number of partial skoolies on FBM and CL is TOO DAMN HIGH.

MY GOD man...I understand the #vanlife thing drove a bunch of instagram-type people to discover the romance of "Skoolie Livin'" but ho-ly ****. It seems like every time I find a decent RE with a good powertrain combo, I open the listing and they have done any number of things to ruin the bus and remove it from the pool of options. Yet, having effectively added a bunch of extra work the the project un-****ing their mistakes, they think it's worth $20k. I actually had someone say to me with a straight face that they are firm on price because that's what they paid for the bus and the work done so far... LOL so you just want to have no consequences for your decisions? I'M supposed to face your consequences?

To be clear, I wholeheartedly encourage anyone to give it a shot. It's not about gatekeeping at all. It's when they turn around and try to sell, that things change for me.

"We removed the seats, removed AC and tore out all existing wiring. Perfect base for your conversion!"
"18" Roof Raise" but it's been sitting outside unpainted for three months.
"Oh haven't you heard? Havelock Wool doesn't need a moisture barrier."
"We used reflective radiant insulation. Only 3mm thick and R15!!!"
"Spray foam insulation" (ONLY 3/4" THICK AND OVERSPRAY ON EVERY GODDAMN SURFACE IN THE BUS)
"SUPER LOW MILES DIESEL 350k MILES THESE ENGINES GO 1000000 MILES"

If I see another bus with 2x4 framing in it I'm gonna scream.

I'm gonna go have a 10am beer.

 

[nikitis]

There is no such thing as turn key buses. All of them have some sort of issue. I'd just buy a barebones untouched bus and check the under carriage and ensure there's no drive train issues, and you got yourself a good bus. The rest can be fixed with a little work.

Reality is you're probably gonna need to be a little less picky. I'm not saying some of your reasons listed in the above post aren't valid reasons to walk away, but it's less work to buy it with no work done other than maintenance and just get into it.

 

[Busjamin]

Week 5. Had a rainy, gloomy weekend in MD mourning a blown deal that felt like it was basically done. Unfortunately after paying a deposit on the bus there were some changes made that we didn't agree to and things deteriorated from there.

SO, back at it again today. I've found that the more I learn about these buses the fewer actually fit our requirements, so the longer this takes the harder it's gotten to actually commit to one. I think practically anything I might have purchased a month ago would have been a mistake to some degree, so I'm trying to count my blessings here and trust the process.

I've got a solid list in order of priority:

1. Chassis: School or school-based transit M.Y. ~1982-2004, Rear Engine, 32-40' length, from an inland arid locale (or imminently inspect-able locally)
2. Engine: Cummins 8.3/ISC or International 7.6/DT466 (Maybe a DD6-71...maybe), sub 200k miles/7500 hours.
3. Transmission: >Allison 2/3k series OR most standard/manual transmission options i.e. Spicer/Eaton-Fuller (Stick would be a bonus treat for me personally). We plan to do plenty of highway/mountain driving so an AT545 or super-high ratio rear end is OOTQ.
4. Tires: No older than 2021 has been my basic cutoff. TL;DR tire age doesn't appear to translate to savings at auction. This is a surprisingly huge swing in actual cost to buy. I have seen otherwise great buses with "BAD TIRES" close for upwards of $7k, which means that was actually a ~$11k minimum purchase after replacing $4000 in tires. Maybe that bus was worth that amount in a vacuum...but I've also seen buses with way newer tires go for the same amount or less...it seems tire health is disproportionately important to the overall value of the bus.

'Nice to have' items:

1. Undercarriage storage - Pass-thru setups are really nice but we can build our own if necessary. We would probably end up adding additional bays even on buses with full storage just to make maximum use of the available space. This is one major benefit of the RE platform without a driveshaft assembly cutting a big trench out of your useable underbelly space.
2. High roof - As much as I had told myself I wouldn't do a roof raise on the first bus, I have softened that stance over the last few weeks as I learn about the process and build up my confidence with tasks like welding & riveting. So, a lower ceiling is no longer such a dealbreaker item if everything else looks good. I can substitute elbow-grease for funding here which is how I like to live.
3. OTR AC & Factory diesel heater (Webasto) - While it would be nice to have this piece of the puzzle in place already, adding an aftermarket diesel heater is not particularly difficult. I've read that they tend to be more efficient as well. AC has any number of solutions although it seems keeping cool while on the road is a particular hassle.
4. Continuous rain gutter - I really prefer the long continuous rain rail as opposed to the individual window bump-outs. It seems the transit-style chassis more often got the continuous rail, and it looks/functions more like a gutter on a house. Eventually I'd like to have rain chains and a collection system. We have toyed with the idea of having some kind of greenhouse space in/on the bus. If our filtration system is robust enough, we could even plumb it into our main water system.
5. Transit-style windows - We intend to retain as much glass as possible for maximum natural lighting. Many school chassis were also built in a transit variant or for some other adult purpose and these seem to have upgraded windows more like what you might see on an RV or coach bus. I'm not sure if they are double-pane or have any actual benefit over the school-style windows, but they have to leak less, right? Plus they are simply bigger. With a roof raise it may be totally irrelevant.

I'm off to GovDeals. Happy Monday everyone.

 

[nikitis]

Happy Monday.

I'll provide a critique to your list. I'll point out what is being picky and being legit:

1. Chassis: School or school-based transit M.Y. ~1982-2004, Rear Engine, 32-40' length, from an inland arid locale (or imminently inspect-able locally)
2. Engine: Cummins 8.3/ISC or International 7.6/DT466 (Maybe a DD6-71...maybe), sub 200k miles/7500 hours.
3. Transmission: >Allison 2/3k series OR most standard/manual transmission options i.e. Spicer/Eaton-Fuller (Stick would be a bonus treat for me personally). We plan to do plenty of highway/mountain driving so an AT545 or super-high ratio rear end is OOTQ.
4. Tires: No older than 2021 has been my basic cutoff. TL;DR tire age doesn't appear to translate to savings at auction. This is a surprisingly huge swing in actual cost to buy. I have seen otherwise great buses with "BAD TIRES" close for upwards of $7k, which means that was actually a ~$11k minimum purchase after replacing $4000 in tires. Maybe that bus was worth that amount in a vacuum...but I've also seen buses with way newer tires go for the same amount or less...it seems tire health is disproportionately important to the overall value of the bus.

Answer to 1, Chassis:
Correct.

Answer to 2 Engine:
Correct, but you can include T444E. It's a solid engine as well.

Answer to 3 Transmission:
Also correct.

Answer to 4 Tires:
2021 is a picky cut off date. I run 14 year old tires on the rear. 10 is cut off date for steer tires if the tread is still good simply because dry rot will start to set in and crack. A lot depends on front steer tires. If a rear blows, it's scary but usually okay, you still have 3 other tires.

'Nice to have' items:

1. Undercarriage storage - Pass-thru setups are really nice but we can build our own if necessary. We would probably end up adding additional bays even on buses with full storage just to make maximum use of the available space. This is one major benefit of the RE platform without a driveshaft assembly cutting a big trench out of your useable underbelly space.
2. High roof - As much as I had told myself I wouldn't do a roof raise on the first bus, I have softened that stance over the last few weeks as I learn about the process and build up my confidence with tasks like welding & riveting. So, a lower ceiling is no longer such a dealbreaker item if everything else looks good. I can substitute elbow-grease for funding here which is how I like to live.
3. OTR AC & Factory diesel heater (Webasto) - While it would be nice to have this piece of the puzzle in place already, adding an aftermarket diesel heater is not particularly difficult. I've read that they tend to be more efficient as well. AC has any number of solutions although it seems keeping cool while on the road is a particular hassle.
4. Continuous rain gutter - I really prefer the long continuous rain rail as opposed to the individual window bump-outs. It seems the transit-style chassis more often got the continuous rail, and it looks/functions more like a gutter on a house. Eventually I'd like to have rain chains and a collection system. We have toyed with the idea of having some kind of greenhouse space in/on the bus. If our filtration system is robust enough, we could even plumb it into our main water system.
5. Transit-style windows - We intend to retain as much glass as possible for maximum natural lighting. Many school chassis were also built in a transit variant or for some other adult purpose and these seem to have upgraded windows more like what you might see on an RV or coach bus. I'm not sure if they are double-pane or have any actual benefit over the school-style windows, but they have to leak less, right? Plus they are simply bigger. With a roof raise it may be totally irrelevant.

Answer to 1 Undercarriage Storage:
Not necessarily so. Dog nose have space as well it's just in the rear instead of the middle, however RE models do often already have the storage compartment pre-built where as dognose you have to build it yourself, and dognose has the driveshaft in the way so you have to build your compartment around that, so RE is still slightly nicer, but I wanted to correct that space wise it's about equal but does require more work to utilize.

Answer to 2: High Roof:
That's the spirit. I'm doing a roof raise as we speak. My first bus as well. It's good to push yourself and you learn life skills which can help you. I built a 20ft trailer from a rusted frame and welded it back together. I learned welding from a trailer first, now I get to apply that skill to the Bus.

Answer to 3: OTR AC & Factory Diesel Heater:
AC is nice to have, and it's difficult to add. Easier if you have a Dognose as you have more space to mount the mini-split condenser. where as you may have fitment issues on a RE because your engine is where you'd want to mount the mini-split. Diesel Heaters work great as after market and are quiet easy to install. It's a non-issue if you have to get one of these for either type of Bus. They heat well as aftermarket. Factory AC is best but you can add mini-splits.

Answer to 4: Continuous Rain Gutter
This is an interesting concern, one that most do not even consider, but I'm glad you do consider it. My 30 year old dognose bus has continuous rain gutter and it's protected the windows for 30 years. No leaks when I opened up the skin. Zero rust under them. Many 2000+ year buses do not have these, and they will leak if not continuous. I can attest this is a good ask, but you are likely gonna narrow down and limit you to mid-90's buses for this option. You could potentially get sheet metal and make you one of these on a bus that does not have them to open up your options.

Answer to 5: Transit style windows
This is preference. School buses let in a lot of natural lighting but also a lot of temperature as they are not double paned. This also requires you to likely skin the sides where the windows go and if you are going that far you might as well roof raise. Window skinning is half of the roof raise process. I decided even with a roof raise to keep my windows since I have the Continuous Rain Gutter and I know they won't leak, but I will pay for it in temps lost. I counter temps lost by having 4 inch insulation floor, and 3 inch wall and ceiling. It will balance out from the window temp loss, but I can improve the windows with a slight tinting. should cut about 10 -20 degrees out. I'm an odd man out as my choice to keep windows isn't as popular because traditionally they are more likely to leak.

 

[Busjamin]

Thanks for the feedback dude. Engagement on this forum has been really helpful.

Answer to 2 Engine:
Correct, but you can include T444E. It's a solid engine as well.

Hah, sure no offense for not listing it! Reliability aside, I have seen that the T444 tends to be underpowered, at least in comparison to the other spec engines that came in these types of chassis. I think both the ISC and DT466 are rated 100+ HP higher (depending on trim/spec). We're planning on nationwide travel so pushing up mountain passes is going to be important. Also, I'm already a car guy so a 'slow' bus would bother me.

Speaking of my personal vehicle and engine reliability...my Miata broke down this weekend. We were on I70 when I saw little puff of something come though a gap in the hood. Looked down and temps were climbing. Alternator belt was gone. Managed to keep spark and airflow until exiting the highway a few miles from the house where the lack of electric cooling fans started to make things pretty steamy. Thankfully these cars come equipped from the factory with "baby teeth" for dragging it out of a ditch when you get too cocky. Gave her the old rope-tow back to the house, much to Jessica's amazement as she was insisting the whole time it would be totally reasonable to call a tow... it ended up being another opportunity to show her that we can handle situations like this together in ways most people may not even try, which builds confidence in the Skoolie project. It's still sitting out there waiting for a new belt.

Answer to 4 Tires:
2021 is a picky cut off date. I run 14 year old tires on the rear. 10 is cut off date for steer tires if the tread is still good simply because dry rot will start to set in and crack. A lot depends on front steer tires. If a rear blows, it's scary but usually okay, you still have 3 other tires.

I've seen a few different guidelines but I use 7 years as the general cutoff for "safe" tires. Anything we would be driving home a significant distance would be getting new steers immediately. I'm not too worried about a blowout on the rear but best to avoid if possible...if only for everyone else on the road behind you that now has to swerve around the carcass of the15-year-old tire until it somehow makes its way to the shoulder lol

Answer to 1 Undercarriage Storage:
Not necessarily so. Dog nose have space as well it's just in the rear instead of the middle, however RE models do often already have the storage compartment pre-built where as dognose you have to build it yourself, and dognose has the driveshaft in the way so you have to build your compartment around that, so RE is still slightly nicer, but I wanted to correct that space wise it's about equal but does require more work to utilize.

You know, I hadn't actually thought about it that way. The whole ass-end of a dognose bus could be wide open underneath if you do a side-exit exhaust. My concern when I look at those models is just how far it is cantilevered past the rear axle. I haven't looked into corner-weighting a bus to check your final distribution, but I can imagine you could load it up back there enough to create some instability. Maybe not popping wheelies, but certainly pulling traction out of your front axle. There is also the reduction in departure angle to consider. Keeping everything midship is some peace of mind for me to know that it should remain reasonably balanced.

Answer to 4: Continuous Rain Gutter
This is an interesting concern, one that most do not even consider, but I'm glad you do consider it. My 30 year old dognose bus has continuous rain gutter and it's protected the windows for 30 years. No leaks when I opened up the skin. Zero rust under them. Many 2000+ year buses do not have these, and they will leak if not continuous. I can attest this is a good ask, but you are likely gonna narrow down and limit you to mid-90's buses for this option. You could potentially get sheet metal and make you one of these on a bus that does not have them to open up your options.

I've seen the way the split-gutters cause big streaks between each window. Stands to reason keeping that water from running down the side of the bus at all would be only logical. I would definitely make and add one if I end up with a bus that doesn't have one already. I'll try to make it integral to the solar rack.

Answer to 5: Transit style windows
This is preference. School buses let in a lot of natural lighting but also a lot of temperature as they are not double paned. This also requires you to likely skin the sides where the windows go and if you are going that far you might as well roof raise. Window skinning is half of the roof raise process. I decided even with a roof raise to keep my windows since I have the Continuous Rain Gutter and I know they won't leak, but I will pay for it in temps lost. I counter temps lost by having 4 inch insulation floor, and 3 inch wall and ceiling. It will balance out from the window temp loss, but I can improve the windows with a slight tinting. should cut about 10 -20 degrees out. I'm an odd man out as my choice to keep windows isn't as popular because traditionally they are more likely to leak.

I do have to consider standing room as I am 6'0". I can only add so much insulation in the floor/ceiling before it's a burden. Another reason I have been softening to the idea of a roof raise. We love the school bus windows but yeah, really thermally inefficient which won't work for us. We see ourselves spending time in the snow and I want to be able to use solar for almost everything. Gotta prioritize efficiency.

If I was going to keep the school bus windows, I'd probably be trying to rebuild their whole frame assembly from the start to make it more robust. Like literally take them all out, cut the bottom of the frames and add in a continuous stool & apron with welded joints and weeps etc. I've read, however, that many have tried and few have succeeded in retaining & leak-proofing their factory windows.

 

[Busjamin]

In other news, I've expanded my welding equipment to include a 200A AC/DC TIG/Stick welder. We went ahead and opened up a Harbor Freight CC and membership, which gets us 20% off pretty much everything they sell. Saved over $200 on this welder after an additional 15% spring sale. Went ahead and picked up 20lb of SMAW electrodes (6011 & 7018) and 4lb of 4043 aluminum filler wire.

I am immediately obsessed with TIG, which is no real surprise. I'm a perfectionist so I was instantly cursed by the god of Argon. I found stick welding to be way more fun than Flux-cored MIG, too. Makes me feel like an electric wizard casting a lightning-bolt spell with a dangerously overclocked wand.

Also found my grandfather's old tap set, and got really good results on the first couple tries. This feels every bit as useful as welding to the Skoolie project. I'm building a carport for my buddy's Kei Truck, putting all of this into practical use on something other than the bus for starters.

Please ignore that state of this welding table...it's not my shop.