Calling All Pro's

[sugarydo]

HIT ME WITH THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE HUGLY
Considering one of these -your thoughts please. Mainly looking for advise on Powertrain system.

PULL LONG GRADES WITHOUT LUGGING DOWN & CRUISE 70+

2005 Thomas Freightliner CAT C7 engine, Allison auto no leaks runs great. Tires have great tread. Only has 74,000 miles!! No rust! What other information is needed to really dial in on this powertrain setup. I'm assuming the motor can be re-rated for more horse power but I know you can have tons of horsepower and still not pull long grades.

2012 Thomas Bus with the Cummins diesel and Alison transmission. Only 123k miles and in great condition. Runs and drives great. I have the service records and original manuals. It does have a ABS(anti-lock breaking system) light on and the seat could use a cover.

 

[ewo1]

Cat engines, I stay away from. Parts and labor too expensive and the diag software will cost you too. don't make assumptions about re-rating the engine...work with specifics instead. do you already know the actual HP of this motor and have you written down on a sheet of paper what and how much $ is needed to upgrade? Mechanic labor costs will kill you on a cat.

Cummins a much friendlier engine, repair parts are abundant but a 2012 WILL have a body control module and emissions equipment.

Now both motors have a fairly good reputation but on both units you failed to completely identify the transmission.
They all have Allison trans so you need to understand what you DON"T want.
The Allison AT545 has no locking torque convertor, they seriously overheat on long hard dries and DO NOT last very long.
An Allison 2500 is a good tranny but for highway speeds an Allison 3000 series is the way to go.

Along the powertrain subject matter, rear end gearing. NOW is a good time to understand what your looking at, not later after you bought it.

Me personally, I am not a fan of Thomas bodies. If a roof raise is in your plans, you got to do those raises differently as if you were doing an International (IC) body. nothing major but you should be aware.

Trying to get wiring diagrams from a Thomas dealer is not hard to do but they do not supply you with a "book" of diagrams. They will research the section you need and most times provide them for free.

Then there is price, I am cheap. I myself wouldn't pay 4-5 grand for a bus... My '99 I paid $1,400 but had rust issues I had to cut out and repair. My 2005 I paid $500 but it was a non runner than needed an in-frame rebuild. But now she has a brand new motor! Both are Allison 3000 series with 6th gear opened.

The reason I stay and prefer IC busses, parts widely available at reasonable cost, technical manuals are easy to get.

there's my good, bad and ugly...

 

[Mr P]

Info on engines can be found on youtube, DeBoss garage's series on "everything wrong with Cat engines" (or Cummins, International, ect)

 

[nikitis]

The Cat is better than the Maxxforce engines of that year bus though.

 

[s2mikon]

I was told a long time ago to never buy a bus with a curved windshield. When they quit making the windshields you time is up. Go price that windshield on that Thomas / Freightliner.

 

[ewo1]

I was told a long time ago to never buy a bus with a curved windshield. When they quit making the windshields you time is up. Go price that windshield on that Thomas / Freightliner.

AMEN to that! I could easily see $1,000 bucks for a windshield, and then you got to find someone who can install it without breaking it!

 

[nikitis]

Or if the bus is still being manufactured, buy a second windshield now for when you'll need it later.

 

[#1FordFan]

99% of school nurses are not speced with enough HP to not slow quite a bit on hills. Most are usually 210 or so HP
You are going to need a bit more like 250-300
The buses at my school were all 210 6.7s and would cruise all day long at 70 BUT hit a hill and suddenly you were at 55 and this was at less than 1000 ft elevation.

 

[1dmpo]

Left out a lot of information, but I would prefer the 2005 simply because it's going to beat a lot of the emissions stuff and it's not that late model Thomas body with the huge curved windshield and the strange lean-in on the body. There's nothing wrong with the C7 Cat and it probably can be turned up a little bit. The internet will tell you that C7's are capable of 360hp but the ones coming in buses won't do that. Has to do with ECM, turbo, CAC, pistons, and some other hard parts. Bus C7's come with the cheap parts and even a willing Cat shop with the right program can only get 250-275 hp out of them. Neither one of those buses should have an AT545 trans. If the 2005 has a 2000 or 2500 it falls right on the break point of maybe or maybe not being six speed capable so the rear gear will come into play if it's not. Both look like they could be good buses, Personally I would prefer the 2005 with the Cat. Happy New Year!