ChesterDaBigBus - 07 Thomas

[HandyAaron]

Here is our bus which we have named Chester, partially because it is from Rochester and because I think it sort of looks like a Chester. I don't know why. Our instagram is: ChesterDaBigBus

About Me/Us:
I'm a 26 year old husband and father of two children. A two year old son and a six month old daughter. I grew up in rural Ohio on a farm. My dad started and runs his own custom cabinetry shop and my mom runs a greenhouse. Both businesses are on the property that I grew up on, so I grew up around business, farm life, and woodworking. I've always been curious about how things work and I'm not afraid to jump into something new. I live by the quote: "If it can be done, why can't I do it." I have some mechanical know how, I'm good with wood, and I have a good dose of common sense. My parents did a great job letting me figure things out on my own and teaching me necessary life skills.

The Bus Details:
- 37' Thomas 2007
- 5.9L 24valve Cummins
- Allison 2500 transmission
- 100 Gal Fuel tank
- 72,000 Miles!

What We Plan To Do:
- 16" Roof raise
- All original windows going bye bye
- Dual Pane RV windows to be installed
- Moving the doorway to the mid-point
- Custom storage boxes between the wheels both sides
- 2400W solar on the roof
- 300ah 24v lithium batteries
- Victron Components

I've dedicated the next 3-4 months or however long it takes to finish this bus so I'll be working full time on it. Yup, that is fast. My previous job was a drafting job as a millwork shop so I've spent the last several months drawing up the plans and thinking through how everything will work together. Hopefully this means I can just build and not do a lot of problem solving in the moment.

Nine days ago we set eyes on the bus for the first time and got a feel for what we had bought online a few months earlier. I have to say she is in better shape than I dared to hope. Only having 70k miles is showing. It does have some rust under there but nothing too major. I did some maintenance to the bus at an uncles shop and then drove it 600 miles to my in laws place were we plan to do all the demo and metal work. In fact the demo work is pretty much done and we are very close to the roof raise. I'll get into more detail on the demo in upcoming posts. I will say that everything is going better than expected and I hope to raise the roof tomorrow.

Feel free to come along for the ride and I welcome any input, ideas, or criticism you may have. I hope to keep this somewhat updated but if you're interested in more pictures and details, we started an instagram account. Go give us a follow: ChesterDaBigBus

 

[HandyAaron]

I started the demo in by taking out the seats. What a job that was! Everything was through bolted so I had a friend up top with an impact while I was underneath with a wrench and vise grip trying to hold the nut while he turned the bolt. It was not easy with all the things in the way but I had a creeper and nice light which helped. Probably the dirtiest job so far. I wasn't able to get my wrench on all the bolts so I just ground the heads off the bolts up top, that wasn't very fun either, but we got all the seats removed! I gave the seats to my brother-in-law to scrap.

Here's all the seats removed and stacked in the back for transport.

After the seats were gone I tackled the ceiling and side panels. Thankfully the bus is held together with screws and not rivets. They used rivets on the exterior ceiling panels but thankfully I won't need to remove those. Some of the screws were very stubborn so I borrowed an air chisel and just tapped them a bit before trying again. Worked like a charm. If they were to stubborn I just bopped the heads right off. Once I had the ceiling panels down it revealed some sort of insulation inside. I'm very grateful it was not fiberglass. I'm not even sure what it was, it looks like cotton batting used for quilts and stuff. So I pulled that out and then moved to the exterior where I pulled off the drip edge, the rub rail below the windows and the pieces covering the hat channels between the windows.
Here is a video of that work being done.

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[SkyMaster]

She's a beauty, and ultra low miles. Nice

 

[HandyAaron]

On to removing the windows. Each hat channel had an aluminum bracket, held with one screw, which held the windows on either side of it out against the exterior trim piece between each window which I already removed. After taking the those screws out it was as simple as slicing the caulk with a knife and then yanking/prying on them and they came right out.

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After the windows were out the side panels could come out. Each side panel was folded over to create the window sill, sort of like an upside down J, then screwed from the outside. I had already removed those screws as well as the rub rail directly below the window so I could just pop them out after removing the interior screws. Again it revealed insulation which I took out.

Next I removed the rear door and interior panels which was fairly uneventful. Then on to the front interior panel. That was a little harder to remove but with some persistence and persuasion it came out. Then I removed the side door which was pretty easy. This door way will be framed in and sheeted over eventually.

One thing we plan to do that I haven't seen anywhere else is to turn the original door into window in the bus that still opens the same way the original bus doors did. It would be just the top half of the doors and I would need to modify them in order to get good seals but I think it is possible. My thought is to re-hinge them on piano hinge and modify/extend the non-hinged sides so that they interlock with each other. Maybe create a u-channel on the leading window that the trailing window would fit inside with a seal inside. The other three sides I'm thinking of using a car door seal mounted to the sills, then the windows would seal against them. What do you think of this idea?

 

[HandyAaron]

Now that the demo is nearly complete it is time to start thinking about the roof raise. Thankfully I have access to a shop which has two overhead beams which were intended for an overhead crane. Right now it has a chain hoist on a trolly on one of the beams but the other beam is empty. I was able to borrow three more chain hoists which I chained to the beams in the right places. Here is a video of me explaining:

Actually hanging one of the chain hoists:

Then I pulled the bus into the shop, positioning it in the right spot underneath the hoists. Then I used straps around the hat channel to hook the hoists to. The beams were closer than I liked (12') which meant I had about 12' from the end of either end of the bus to the nearest hoist. It ended up not being a problem at all. That roof is pretty stiff lengthwise and I did not have any issues with it sagging lower at any point.

 

[HandyAaron]

After the bus was in place I started cutting and grinding. here I'm explaining the plan before I started:

I got a metal blade for my skill saw and made a simple jig to help me get straight and square cuts on the hat channels. The front and rear caps were challenging to get free. I used the angle grinder, sawzal, and pry bars to get everything free.

 

[HandyAaron]

Once the roof was free, raising it went without a hitch. It took me maybe 15 minutes from when I started pulling the chains on the hoist to when I reached my final height of 16" and could start tacking in some hat channels. I spent the next three days welding and getting the roof straight.

Getting the roof straight was not very difficult. I had a scrap piece of heavy-gauge 2" box tubing, which I clamped to the hat channel with C-clamps. I started near one corner, tacked it in, then moved to the opposite side of the bus, then the other corner, and so on. Once I had four hat channels tacked in place, I double-checked that the roof was in the right position. It was perfect from front to back but needed a little adjustment side to side with a ratchet strap, both at the front and the back. I used a 2' square to ensure the old screw holes at the front and rear caps were directly above each other. Actually, I used the ratchet to pull slightly beyond square (about 1/8") so that when I released the strap, it would spring back to perfect alignment. This method worked flawlessly.

Once I confirmed the roof was properly positioned, I went through each hat channel and welded it up. The sides of my bus angled inward starting at the bottom of the windows. Apparently, all or most Thomas buses are like this, and I had read that it can be a problem when doing a roof raise at the windows. However, it turned out to be a non-issue. I still needed to use the 2" box tubing and clamps to get the hat channels aligned in a straight line with each other. One thing I found was that if I had to move a hat channel significantly to get it to line up, it was important to use spacers to push it slightly beyond straight. That way, after welding and releasing the clamps, it would spring back into alignment.

At the front and back, I framed it similarly to how Chuck Cassidy does in his roof raise videos. I used 1 1/4" box tubing for my rivet line in what is now the middle of the cap, and channel iron to connect the box tubing to the framing above the windshield at the front and the door header at the back.

Here is a video showing the whole process:

 

[nikitis]

Great video. One critique. I would like to see the above the driver window post raise. Like closeups where those extra metal pieces were at while lifted, and closeups of your cuts.

You did show where you would cut, but did it go to plan? Did you have to make additional cuts and where?

This is probably the least understood part of a roof raise, and nobody really knows what they are doing when they approach it. We'd like to see if it's still there closeups of how it was cut and where all around it. Over the door side too.

Thanks,

 

[HandyAaron]

Great video. One critique. I would like to see the above the driver window post raise. Like closeups where those extra metal pieces were at while lifted, and closeups of your cuts.

You did show where you would cut, but did it go to plan? Did you have to make additional cuts and where?

This is probably the least understood part of a roof raise, and nobody really knows what they are doing when they approach it. We'd like to see if it's still there closeups of how it was cut and where all around it. Over the door side too.

Thanks,

Thanks for the feed back! Everything went to plan. Here are a few pictures of what it looks like as of today. I think the main reason there is not more info on this online is because there are various ways to do it and it will vary base on your final goals. This is what I did in my case and it seems to be working well so far.

 

[nikitis]

Perfect pics. Exactly what I was looking for. My framing is built like yours so it's the same. I couldn't quite make out on mine yet where to cut, but now I can see it from those pics there. So you punched out the rivets on the triangle looking piece at the bottom, and that frees up the outer skin.

But had to cut the weld from the back curving hat channel cause it was welded to the triangle piece to move it upwards, then brought the extended hat channel addition to the triangle piece. Seems simpler than I had expected. Maybe not so much to undo those weld strips on the hat channel?

 

[HandyAaron]

Perfect pics. Exactly what I was looking for. My framing is built like yours so it's the same. I couldn't quite make out on mine yet where to cut, but now I can see it from those pics there. So you punched out the rivets on the triangle looking piece at the bottom, and that frees up the outer skin.

But had to cut the weld from the back curving hat channel cause it was welded to the triangle piece to move it upwards, then brought the extended hat channel addition to the triangle piece. Seems simpler than I had expected. Maybe not so much to undo those weld strips on the hat channel?

Yup exactly how I did it! Cutting the weld between the triangle looking piece and the curved hat channel was the most challenging part of the raise, especially near the door and window frame. It's pretty hard to get a round cutting disc into a square corner. I ended up using a pneumatic tool with a small cut off wheel that let me get deeper into the corner. One the drivers side I ended up just slicing through the window frame and welding it back together afterwards.

 

[HandyAaron]

The next project after raising the roof was to put new sheet metal on. I used:

1. 18 gauge galvanneal sheet metal
2. 1/4" stainless steel structural rivets (Link)
3. 17/16" drill bits 5% cobalt (Link)
4. Sika Flex 221 sealant (Link)

I was able to use a friends shear to cut my sheets to size which was a life saver! The first piece was the back cap. You want to start at the back so that as you work your way forward the next sheet will overlap the last one. This will help it seal better and match the factory seams. For the back cap I measured from the center of the bus (width wise) to the start of the radius. Then I measured the circumference of that curve to where it ended. I marked everything out on my new sheet and used a table, some clamps, and 2.5" pipe to slowly and carefully bend my sheet at both ends. It worked well, but I had to be careful to put a small bend in the sheet, move and re-clamp, then bend again until I had my radius. Then I was able to put the piece up in place. As you can see in the picture, the original sheet went over top of the new sheet and then the new sheet went over top of the structure above the rear windows. The radius on the top part was flared out a little and I could not get it to lay flat with just hammering. I had to cut a relief cut in order to get it to lay flat. I have sealant in there and once I put the side drip edge back on it shouldn't be very noticeable.

Then it was on to the side pieces. Here is the process I came up with for hanging these sheets. First I made a template for my rivet holes and used it to drill holes in the hat channels. Then I drilled two small holes where I wanted the bottom of the sheet to be and put screws in them for the sheet to rest on. Then I lifted the sheet, set it on those screws, and clamped it near the top so it wouldn't fall down. Then I used some self tapping screws through the holes I drilled for the rivets to hold the sheet tight against the bus. Then I drilled my 17/64" holes through the sheet from the inside of the bus using the same holes I drilled through the hat channels as my guide. After all the holes were drilled I de-burred them with a de-burr tool and a chisel then leaned the sheet out away from the bus using 3 bungies to hooked from the top of the sheet to the bus and the two screws at the bottom to hold it.

After everything was de-burred I could put my Sika flex on the sheet, flip it back up against the bus, and rivet it into place. For the rivet gun I got the $70 one from Harbor Freight, it seems to be working well.

You may notice that I did not slide my sheet up under the bus' roof panels but just put them on top. I wanted to slide them up under the roof panels but the adhesive they used between those and the bus structure it incredibly strong. I tried to pry the sheets up but was damaging them doing so. I figured that adhesive probably adds significant structure to the roof of the bus and it might be more detrimental to the structure to break that bond and re-do it than the potential leaking issue if I lay the sheet on top. I decided to just lay my panels on top and then put the drip edge back on. This way any water has two seams to get through before it can get inside the bus. I'm trusting this Sika Flex to do its job and keep water out of my bus. What do you all think of this? Bad idea or did I make the right call?

BTW I am going to put the rub rail back on to cover the bottom edge of my new sheets.

I'm happy with how my rivets are lining up!

This is as far as I'll go with the sheeting for now. I need to figure out the new door and passenger window before I proceed.

 

[HandyAaron]

One thing we really wanted on our bus was lots of storage underneath the bus. I'm a stickler for efficiency and seeing all that unused space under the bus bothered me, so we decided to build custom storage boxes to fit. I decided I wanted to try to build my own storage boxes rather than buying prebuilt. I designed the boxes with as much bending and as few joints as I could since I have access to a shear and brake. Each box is 24.5" high and 26" deep with varying lengths (36", X2-40" and X2-52") I used 16 gauge galvannealed sheet metal.

Here are some photos:

This is the front edge of the storage box itself. I'll weld this corner later.

Here are the doors. I essentially bent a u-channel around three sides (sides and bottom) of the door. I would have liked to do all four but I needed a finger brake to do that. Again the corners will be welded later.

Here you can see 3/4" flanges on the sides and bottom. This provides rigidity and a surface for the doors to seal against.

You can see here the the box is on its side. The bottom two corners were bent on the brake and the top two corners were also bent with 1 1/2" flanges in order to make those two corners.

Here you can see the back with the 1 1/2" flanges. I used SikaFlex 221 to seal everything.

The final corner where I could not put a flange on the fourth side of the back was joined with 1 1/2" angle of the same material which I bent on the brake.

Hopefully you can see my basic design here. Each box has a 3/4" flange on the sides and bottom to provide rigidity and a surface for the door to seal against. I bent the front flanges first then bent two flanges on the ends of the piece in order to secure the final side. After that I bent the final two corners of the box. I would have liked to bend all four corners but my sheet was not longe enough to do that. the back also was made with flanges on three sides. Again, I would have liked to do all four sides but couldn't without a finger brake. After the boxes and doors were bent I assembled the boxes using 1/4" rivets and SikaFlex 221. Here is all the boxes assembles and positioned how they will be eventually in the bus.

Next I added 2" angle iron 3/16" thick to the fronts of the boxes. This adds lots of strength to the front, provides an attachment point between the boxes and the bus, and allows the doors to be inset to help the doors seal better.

I added 2 half inch angle stiffeners to the back side of the doors:

Each door is hinged at the top with piano hinge and I added gas springs as well.

 

[nikitis]

I was worried about bending of the metal once you put stuff in it, but once I saw your last pic with the reinforcment down the middle, my worries subsided. Keep up the good work!

 

[Timeline]

Nice bus and the metal work is looking good!

 

[Mr P]

Excellent post, great info. I'm curious as to approximate cost of the parts, metal especially.

 

[AlphaHare]

Looks great - nice work!