Chi-noodin

[tj-grant]

The tides have turned and we are beginning the construction. 20” roof raise: check

 

[nikitis]

Nicely done. You have the same rarer combo I have, FS65 style roof but on an International instead of a freightliner. Having done a 12in roof raise on mine, I can tell you we have the BEST combination to keeping it looking factory post raise. I can see you did in-window cuts though so you are gonna add custom windows. It's still gonna look great though. I love our body style.

 

[Kentucky Dreaming]

You have the same rarer combo I have, FS65 style roof but on an International instead of a freightliner.

Dude, you are a bit confused. FS65 has nothing to do with the roof. FS65 was the Freightliner incomplete vehicle chassis that was sold to bus manufacturers. There was no bodywork from the firewall back.

Your bus body was built by Thomas on an International chassis. No FS65 involved.

 

[nikitis]

Yes I know that. Thomas only did those raised roof bodies on a few internationals before they were used most exclusively in the freightliners years later. A few vistas had the raised driver roof, some 94-97s has them then the fs65s had them pretty exclusively after that and in numbers.

I only refer to them as FS65 because they were far more prevalent in the freight liners than on the internationals and that's what most people recognize those bodies on. Even video games with buses only show the raised roof driver body style on Freightliner in the game,

Beem.ng is a video game where you can drive many different bus types, and it only lists the FS65 with the roof type. There is no option in the game with the roof on an international. The internationals in the game do not have the raised roof over the driver area.

It is socially recognized and more common on the FS65, but I have to explain to two groups. One who knows this and one who don't

 

[tj-grant]

Nicely done. You have the same rarer combo I have, FS65 style roof but on an International instead of a freightliner. Having done a 12in roof raise on mine, I can tell you we have the BEST combination to keeping it looking factory post raise. I can see you did in-window cuts though so you are gonna add custom windows. It's still gonna look great though. I love our body style.

Thanks. I hope it’ll look great in the end. The hat channels seemed a lil wonky in some spots though. They are out 1/8 here n there so the sheeting will have a few ripples. When i was cutting it up the whole thing was just forced into place and welded together in the factory so that made things tricky when i was putting it back together and unfortunately missed an alignment when i did the welding. But i hope it isn’t too noticeable in the end.

 

[nikitis]

Some of the "Offness" of the hat channels can be if you didn't cut perfectly straight. It also helps to strap in the upper frame to pull it in till it's perfectly aligned before inserting the channels. Don't release the straps until a few in all corners of the bus and middle are welded in.

It can be hard to cut them straight sometimes. I even used a skill saw to cut mine. A couple of mm's won't be too bad tbh, but much more than that and it can really throw things off. I was hiding my new sheet metal under all of the bumper bars so it could even be off a tad and you wouldn't notice at all. Everything looks straight on my raise.

 

[tj-grant]

Some of the "Offness" of the hat channels can be if you didn't cut perfectly straight. It also helps to strap in the upper frame to pull it in till it's perfectly aligned before inserting the channels. Don't release the straps until a few in all corners of the bus and middle are welded in.

It can be hard to cut them straight sometimes. I even used a skill saw to cut mine. A couple of mm's won't be too bad tbh, but much more than that and it can really throw things off. I was hiding my new sheet metal under all of the bumper bars so it could even be off a tad and you wouldn't notice at all. Everything looks straight on my raise.

I built a jig and used a skill saw so they were all cut very straight but once the hat channels were cut they were immediately out of line as if they were under pressure. It took some fanagling to jig it back up straight to tack weld them but then the inserts pivoted on those tacks and things were off in a few places. I did use the straps. It all went back together pretty well and it’s all square now but i just hope i can hide the imperfections. Meh, we’ll see what it looks like in the end

 

[nikitis]

hrm.. I wonder if your bus was naturally off shapened or bent from use over time. Some of them are that way. These things were mostly slapped together by human hands in the 90's and early 2000's so it's entirely possible. I was able to see many of the hand made cuts done by the factory people who assembled the body on my bus, but I was lucky and it was all pretty straight. I didn't really have the issue you're experiencing.

 

[tj-grant]

hrm.. I wonder if your bus was naturally off shapened or bent from use over time. Some of them are that way. These things were mostly slapped together by human hands in the 90's and early 2000's so it's entirely possible. I was able to see many of the hand made cuts done by the factory people who assembled the body on my bus, but I was lucky and it was all pretty straight. I didn't really have the issue you're experiencing.

I’m positive it was built by some dudes that just slapped it together. Some of the cuts on the sheet metal are atrocious and the alignment of the rub rail to the hat channels at the back are so off they don’t even land. There appears to be some pretty pitiful welding done after the initial build. And somebody along the way added a mass of bondo probably to fix a rusted hole.. but it didn’t work.

 

[AlphaHare]

These are busses, not airplanes. The hoops are roll-formed and will not have been perfectly planar or of the exact width. You can assume they are pulled together to the original location, and once cut, will try to spring to the original shape.

The roof skins will also add a lot of stress to the original hoops - the skins aren't pre-formed but pulled down into shape and riveted. If your upper hoop 'ribcage' springs outwards or sideways after cutting, it's likely the upper skin doing the work.

I have also been surprised by the apparent crudeness of construction, especially the rear wheelchair door modification, the wheel chair restraint modifications, and the A/C modifications. All of these are relatively 'standard' features, but clearly done with angle grinders and sawzalls at the time of build.

Have fun with your build - it's fun when the disassembly ends and the construction begins.

 

[tj-grant]

These are busses, not airplanes. The hoops are roll-formed and will not have been perfectly planar or of the exact width. You can assume they are pulled together to the original location, and once cut, will try to spring to the original shape.

The roof skins will also add a lot of stress to the original hoops - the skins aren't pre-formed but pulled down into shape and riveted. If your upper hoop 'ribcage' springs outwards or sideways after cutting, it's likely the upper skin doing the work.

I have also been surprised by the apparent crudeness of construction, especially the rear wheelchair door modification, the wheel chair restraint modifications, and the A/C modifications. All of these are relatively 'standard' features, but clearly done with angle grinders and sawzalls at the time of build.

Have fun with your build - it's fun when the disassembly ends and the construction begins.

I was a little intimidated at first when the construction began but i just started forming the corner pieces and I’m freekin stoked. It was so much fun making this. I fd it up a bit but it’ll work

 

[Bjorkinman]

Holy smokes that picture brings up some memories, looks exactly like my RR experience. I did it outside too and the tarping was the worst part.
Jumping in a bit late, but I made a jig to align the hat channels when I was welding it all back together. Something I saw on Chuck Cassady's video, basically a 1x2 about 3 feet long with angle iron welded in a few spots - was able to use clamps on the top and bottom of the cut rib, then 2 clamps on the new insert, pulled everything in perfect alignment. The areas where I welded didn't have any angle iron so I had room to weld. If you're still in the process and if it would be helpful I could try to get a picture uploaded tomorrow.

 

[nikitis]

Yeah some of my best pieces on my bus were hand bent and hammered. Just like the way they built them in the beginning.

 

[tj-grant]

Holy smokes that picture brings up some memories, looks exactly like my RR experience. I did it outside too and the tarping was the worst part.
Jumping in a bit late, but I made a jig to align the hat channels when I was welding it all back together. Something I saw on Chuck Cassady's video, basically a 1x2 about 3 feet long with angle iron welded in a few spots - was able to use clamps on the top and bottom of the cut rib, then 2 clamps on the new insert, pulled everything in perfect alignment. The areas where I welded didn't have any angle iron so I had room to weld. If you're still in the process and if it would be helpful I could try to get a picture uploaded tomorrow.

Yaaaa… tarps
Here’s the piece in question. You can plainly make out by eye the misalignment. I did make a jig to realign before welding but fearing that I’d weld the jig to the inserts i only tacked them on with the jig in place. There’s 6” of overlap that the inserts sit into the hat channels — which is all the beef of the connection — so i couldn’t even weld that area with the jig on. It ended up pivoting on the tack and of course i didn’t notice while wearing the welding mask until i got to the spot that showed “hey we’re way out of whack over here”. Alas, i think the plan is to just cut it out n put a big window there since that’s where the dinet area will be.

 

[tj-grant]

Yeah some of my best pieces on my bus were hand bent and hammered. Just like the way they built them in the beginning.

**** ya. I had fun making these. Made a few mistakes on the first but the second one came out much better

 

[Bjorkinman]

If I were you id probably cut that out and try to re-do it, simply because if I didn't it would laugh at me every time I walked by... You are you're own worst critic.
Here's a pic of the jig I used just to give an idea. The angle iron is on both sides (the front and back respectively) so the channel aligns on both planes.

 

[nikitis]

Ah so you didn't use hat channels but simple square tubing and angle iron. One of the reasons many recommend using the skoolie.com extensions is because they fit the hat channel lip at all places which helps with alignment. (Helps, not a guarantee)

Using tubing makes alignment a bit harder. Your welding spots are good and you did enough welding to make it sturdy, but if it's already welded the only thing you can do now is bend or warp it.

One thing you could maybe do is take a rachet strap, wrap it around 2 hat channels on the opposite side of the bus, and then wrap it in the middle around the bent hat channel. and tighten. Using the strength of 2 of the opposite end hat channels can help you pull and bend in the bent/crooked side. It should give first before the opposite 2. Then once straightened, maybe go over the single bent hatchannel with a welder again to help lock it in, then release straps.

 

[tj-grant]

Ah so you didn't use hat channels but simple square tubing and angle iron. One of the reasons many recommend using the skoolie.com extensions is because they fit the hat channel lip at all places which helps with alignment. (Helps, not a guarantee)

Using tubing makes alignment a bit harder. Your welding spots are good and you did enough welding to make it sturdy, but if it's already welded the only thing you can do now is bend or warp it.

One thing you could maybe do is take a rachet strap, wrap it around 2 hat channels on the opposite side of the bus, and then wrap it in the middle around the bent hat channel. and tighten. Using the strength of 2 of the opposite end hat channels can help you pull and bend in the bent/crooked side. It should give first before the opposite 2. Then once straightened, maybe go over the single bent hatchannel with a welder again to help lock it in, then release straps.

I live in Canada. Skoolie.net won’t send em up this way. This was the best solution. I could try to correct it but they’re really on there. Best thing to do is cut it out completely and weld up a frame for a big window. Making sure it’s in line!

 

[tj-grant]

If I were you id probably cut that out and try to re-do it, simply because if I didn't it would laugh at me every time I walked by... You are you're own worst critic.
Here's a pic of the jig I used just to give an idea. The angle iron is on both sides (the front and back respectively) so the channel aligns on both planes.
View attachment 2410440View attachment 2410441

Ya i tried that lol. They’re really on there I’d have to make a total mess or cut out more than i want to in order to re-do it. Gonna just frame up a big window instead.