Crown Bus Electric Conversion

[Iceni John]

Aren't Crowns a good bit heavier than normal school buses?

Yes. Some Crown tandems have GVWRs approaching 50,000 lbs. That means with a full load of 97 sprogs there's still plenty of reserve capacity.

John

 

[alpine44]

A few additional comments on Hydrogen.

Since Hydrogen does not naturally occur as element on our planet, it is not an energy source but merely a candidate for an energy storage medium.

Hydrogen can be created by electrolysis as correctly observed in high school experiments. Not obvious in these experiments is the efficiency of this process. The energy available in the produced hydrogen is only 70-80% of the electrical input. Then, we have to burn this in an ICE at anywhere less than 40% efficiency and you begin to wonder what sense this makes.

Hydrogen is produced on an industrial scale by steam reforming of natural gas which yields hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide. We do not even have to look at the efficiency numbers here to see that this is no better than compressing the natural gas and burning it directly in our vehicles.

Why the hype about H2. Don't ask me. Also do not ask me why risk capital is literally going to pot at a scale that Lithium mining feels the lack of investments. There is always another hype for the financial gamblers among us.

And don't get me started on fool, err fuel cells.

 

[Iceni John]

Me feels that the OP was a Troll who has since found other victims.

Absolutely, without a doubt! But he still inspired some good discussion about alternate energy and its possible vehicle uses. I think the consensus is that his idea was bollocks, but the future nevertheless holds great promise for electric and non-conventional power sources (but not in Crowns!).

John

 

[alpine44]

Absolutely, without a doubt! But he still inspired some good discussion about alternate energy and its possible vehicle uses. I think the consensus is that his idea was bollocks, but the future nevertheless holds great promise for electric and non-conventional power sources (but not in Crowns!).

John

The comment about an electric Crown missing the unique sound and smell signature gave a business idea.

For model trains there are these little electronic boards that make the sounds and sometimes even the steam of a 'real' locomotive.

How about something like that for EVs. Want the sound of a big block with an aggressive cam? No problem. Turbo whine from a diesel? Why not. The 'rolling coal' feature may have to be locked in certain states and municipalities.

Would also make the roads safer for jay walking pedestrians. These EVs can sneak up on you. Like the bikers say: "Loud pipes save lives".

 

[alpine44]

BTW: You do not need 700+hp to enjoy skidding around with an electric vehicle.

I built this with my nephew years ago.

 

[Sleddgracer]

A few additional comments on Hydrogen.

Since Hydrogen does not naturally occur as element on our planet, it is not an energy source but merely a candidate for an energy storage medium.

Hydrogen can be created by electrolysis as correctly observed in high school experiments. Not obvious in these experiments is the efficiency of this process. The energy available in the produced hydrogen is only 70-80% of the electrical input. Then, we have to burn this in an ICE at anywhere less than 40% efficiency and you begin to wonder what sense this makes.

Hydrogen is produced on an industrial scale by steam reforming of natural gas which yields hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide. We do not even have to look at the efficiency numbers here to see that this is no better than compressing the natural gas and burning it directly in our vehicles.

Why the hype about H2. Don't ask me. Also do not ask me why risk capital is literally going to pot at a scale that Lithium mining feels the lack of investments. There is always another hype for the financial gamblers among us.

And don't get me started on fool, err fuel cells.

there are two promising processes of hydrogen generation being worked on right now - neither method uses electrolysis to produce hydrogen - the methods both use a form of photosynthesis to generate hydrogen - the two processes are slightly different, but reports are good about both processes - this link describes yet another method of using photosynthesis than the ones I previously read about - I see on-board hydrogen generators and small household generators as the solution to having a non polluting energy source, one that could get the average Joe and Josephine truly self reliant and off grid

https://news.umich.edu/harvesting-clean-hydrogen-fuel-through-artificial-photosynthesis/

 

[EastCoastCB]

Yes. Some Crown tandems have GVWRs approaching 50,000 lbs. That means with a full load of 97 sprogs there's still plenty of reserve capacity.

John

So yeah, a Crown would be a very poor choice to try to convert in the way OP suggests.

 

[steveningham]

There is a company that is building a drop in electric axle. The traction motor is a part of the axle. I've heard the axle will fit into an Amtran, Blue Bird buses. Perfect for an RE. Blue Bird is now building all electric versions of their school buses. I suspect they and other manufacturers are using these axles. You might look into it. But I suspect the Crowns would be more difficult to convert. Tesla traction motors aren't heavy duty enough for a bus to my knowledge, unless you are thinking of the semi stuff? I have been driving all electric cars since 2015 and have drive 80000 all electric miles. I wish I could convert my 2000 Amtran RE to electric. It can be done, but it's to expensive at this moment in time. Waiting for Battery and component costs to come down with mass production. It might be less expensive to just by a new electric bus from Blue Bird or Lion. No seats, RV windows, the works.

 

[steveningham]

No need to reinvent the wheel.https://www.blue-bird.com/buses/allamerican/all-american-re-electric-bus

 

[EastCoastCB]

No need to reinvent the wheel.https://www.blue-bird.com/buses/allamerican/all-american-re-electric-bus

But that's not a "Tesla".

 

[HazMatt-SKO]

And if it ain't Tesla, it's trasha...
(According to Opie, at least)

 

[PNW_Steve]

No need to reinvent the wheel.https://www.blue-bird.com/buses/allamerican/all-american-re-electric-bus

Check out the range on those... 100-120 miles. You would have to keep that in mind when picking routes for those buses.

For our application, useless until battery technology makes some drastic improvement.

 

[peteg59]

Wonder if BB's 5 year warranty on their electric offerings covers batteries, or are those considered "wear items" for warranty purposes?

Someone should start a new electric powered alternative thread for all of the future brainstorming and fruitful discussion on the subject.
Just sayin'...

 

[PNW_Steve]

Wonder if BB's 5 year warranty on their electric offerings covers batteries, or are those considered "wear items" for warranty purposes?

Someone should start a new electric powered alternative thread for all of the future brainstorming and fruitful discussion on the subject.
Just sayin'...

If they don't cover batteries under the 5 year warranty, I expect we will start seeing them at auction shortly.

 

[firefoxz]

Take the concept of diesel-electric locomotives and tune it down a little with a tesla drive unit and a small engine-generator and make a hybrid. Best of both worlds. And nobody has brought it up.

 

[Ronnie-SKO]

BTW: You do not need 700+hp to enjoy skidding around with an electric vehicle.

I built this with my nephew years ago.

This reminds me of the "Big Wheel" I had as a kid that was great for drifting, and flipping over and scareing cars that might otherwise run me over.... good thing my mom did not see the things I did..

The new version of Top Gear, "The Grand Tour" was showing plastic pipe on car tires for drifting, as usual very funny.

 

[Vagabond-SKO]

Confusing.

Don't know why my post was deleted.

 

[HazMatt-SKO]

Don't know why my post was deleted.

What did it say?

 

[Sleddgracer]

Take the concept of diesel-electric locomotives and tune it down a little with a tesla drive unit and a small engine-generator and make a hybrid. Best of both worlds. And nobody has brought it up.

l like that idea - was thinking about that myself, but reality got in the way and i gave up on it - my expertise and bank roll are much to thin for a project like that - l have been working on an idea for a battery powered cart made from bicycles though - lol

 

[Sehnsucht-SKO]

Firefoxz touched on my idea. I've long wondered why we don't have more electric trucks and buses already because it doesn't seem like it should be that big a leap from current technology. Let me elaborate.

As mentioned earlier, a single Tesla motor isn't scaled for a bus sized application. However, Tesla has prototype semi trucks already testing on the road and they have 4 motors, one on each drive wheel (two per axle, two axles) which they expect to maintain 80k pounds in momentum. My expectation is that it uses all four to launch from a stop then pare back to two once it reaches cruise speed. This means a couple of things, one of which is two motors cruising means ~half the range on a charge. That's the part Tesla is still sketchy about because long haul trucks can't afford to stop every 3 hours for an hour+ charging session and adding batteries for range adds weight which cuts into freight capacity. Electric semi trucks may work for in-town and short hauls as long as they can return to base to charge while being reloaded. The same goes for buses. My town of Indianapolis is right now installing electric buses for the new rapid transit system which the manufacturer assured 275 mile range but the transit authority couldn't get over 250 miles in testing BEFORE it occurred to them they didn't add ballast to simulate passenger weight. To compensate, they are already retrofitting the bus stops with induction chargers to extend the range a little while each bus is idle. These are examples of all-electrics being feasible locally but not long distances. So if companies already producing electric buses can't defy current physics then I'm not holding my breath that a backyard mechanic is going to revolutionize the industry... But it would be awesome if that happened!

So, if pairing motors can push the beast but batteries aren't adequate alone, this is where I keep landing in my vision of the future is a small diesel or gasoline or LP or hydrogen or whatever combustion engine generating electricity sufficient to keep the batteries topped up but the batteries still provide the propulsion energy... So basically a bus-sized Prius. The biggest challenges would still remain - properly sizing the genset, batteries, and motors, then tying it all together with an electronic control system. Now, if I understand correctly, Tesla's software is open source to encourage this kind of out-of-the-box innovation so the right person should be able to build on their current technology in a fruitful way with minimal investment. Any programmers in our midst?

One final thought, vis-a-vis the motor matter, there is a company called Speedwright I think which makes a two-speed transfer case assembly which pairs between an existing drive axle differential and a retro-fitted electric motor assembly to give class 5-7 sized vehicles the capability of being converted to electric drive using the existing axle. The lower speed, higher torque range effectively multiplies the motor's launch power without overwhelming it then at ~25-30mph this transfer case shifts to higher speed range because the motor only needs adequate power to maintain momentum and accelerate gradually. I don't think that company is interested in talking to anyone who isn't a manufacturer though but I found the idea intriguing. Take that for what its worth.