Dad of 8 needs skooled

[beyns]

Hi, Beyns here, father to 8 kids. Just bought a 96 bluebird 48 pass. Need advice on electrics and cooling. How to stay cool on the move with 10 warm bodies aboard? It hit 36 degrees C today, and its only June!!!

We live on an acreage in rural Saskatchewan, Canada. Our skoolie is to become a ten bedded bunkhouse, because hotels aren't an option for a family this size. Hope to take her down to Cali to visit the mouse next year.

 

[milkmania]

Wait, wait! I got this!

 

[nat_ster]

Spray foam and a proper thermal break is the only way.

I'm just to the west of you a few hours. Just west of Edmonton Alberta.

Here is a link to my current build for ideas.
http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/the-four-season-prime-10138.html

Nat

 

[family wagon]

Our skoolie is to become a ten bedded bunkhouse, because hotels aren't an option for a family this size.

In a couple weeks our fifth will come along and we'll be 7 in all. I already feel like hotels aren't an option! (and airfare isn't either!)

I haven't put up a decent floor plan for my build yet but I'll describe it briefly. We'll build a room just big enough for a queen bed over the rear engine for the two of us. On each side of the bus, above the rear wheel wells, will be a stack of three bunk beds (one more bed than kids in case a friend comes along, and for symmetry). We're doing a roof raise in part so that these bunks can each have about 22" of vertical space with a 5" allowance for the thickness of each bunk. The middle bunk will have a 4-bar linkage so it can pivot downward and, together with the lower bunk, form a bench/couch for daytime use.

Early in the design we'd thought about doing bunks over the engine also (two, or maybe three) for a total of 8 or 9 beds in back. We would have designed the front area to be benches while driving and convertible to a queen or king bed when parked, but I scratched that idea because I don't want to drive until drowsiness is near, then have to spend half an hour putting the bed together before I can sleep. So the over-engine bunks got dumped in favor of a queen bed instead.

As nat_ster said, insulation is the most critical thing for cooling. The money will be spent either way -- on a huge A/C system, or on insulation. I haven't worked out the "on the move" part of the equation for mine yet. Engine-driven would be nice, but I want to use the A/C while the engine is off too (and not have dual systems), and it seems complicated to design a single system with two parallel compressors, or a compressor clutched for two power sources, etc. Depending on the size of the A/C it might be possible to run from an inverter off a battery bank and use the engine alternator to recharge at the same time. The load on the alternator would be reduced according to the compressor's duty cycle -- but if the duty cycle is high then this scheme doesn't help reduce average alternator load. Probably I'll end up with a generator powering our A/C.

Also get rid of as many windows as you can; windows bring an incredible amount of heat in when the sun shines.

Oh.. paint it white, too. Somewhere 'round here there's a thread that concludes the mystical insulating beads are ineffective; just go with a nice white elastomeric roof paint.

 

[cowlitzcoach]

If you are talking a 12-row bus, that is about as big as they get.

If you are talking an 8-row bus, I think you should rethink and get a bigger bus.

If you are on a really slim budget the only way to keep cool in a yellow bus during the hot weather is to put the windows down, go as fast as you can, and hope for the best.

To reduce the temp somewhat inside changing the roof color to white makes a huge difference. In some studies it made a 20* F difference at 3:00 in the afternoon.

If your budget has a little fat to it you may want to consider a roof top RV 110-VAC style A/C unit that you can run off of an invertor/battery bank that can be recharged by the bus alternator while running down the road.

 

[Kubla]

my opinion is that you need to trade up to a bus that had factory AC, retrofitting moving AC will cost more than you will lose in the trade, the other route is multiple roof airs and a genset you can have running while the bus is moving

I have a portable AC unit I can use while stopped with my honda generator, but you require 3 times as much capacity to cool a moving bus

 

[nat_ster]

You require 3 times as much capacity to cool a moving bus

Why?

Science behind the fact?

Nat

 

[Kubla]

the moving air over the surface of the bus will speed heat transfer through the body, also the bus leaks air no matter how much you seal it, so the air change rate is significantly higher when the bus is moving, the air conditioning in a car is sufficient for a small house, average's about 2.5 tons capacity in a car, city buses have about 20 tons of AC capacity

my 280 sq foot bluebird had more AC capacity, 5 tons(if it all worked) than my 1300 sq foot house, 3 tons, and that is the units for when it is not moving, which most Bluebird owners use while moving by running generator, since the Dash AC in the older units like mine was marginal when it worked, and mostly did not work after a few years so you ran the house air and the generator which uses a gallon an hour of fuel on top of the 6 an hour you were using driving 55 mph

and there is the extreme lack of insulation in the walls and roof of a bus, my wanderlodge only has like 2 inches and it was the top of the line in motorhomes in 1982

 

[beyns]

I'm in love already...

I'm in love with this forum. You guys are kind generous, and witty. Kudos for the Jaws reference; what a beauty.
My "small" bus will fit us all no worries. How? Let me tell you:
Seat row 1 turned to face rear.
Seat row 2 removed. Tables in gap.
Seat rows 3 and 4 intact.
5-8 all disappeared.
So like this:
_______________
[ π ] ] K BUNK
[ π ] ] B BUNK
-------------------------
K= Kitchen
B= Bathroom

Kitchen is just going to be a piece of IKEA counter left over from home reno, with storage and fridge below, and a butane camp stove, micro and plastic washup bowl on top.
Bathroom is chemical toilet enclosed in quasi-airtight room, with fan to outside.
Bunks are to be both triples, built from 2" steel pipe with canvas hung from side bars.
Double bed is seat rows 1 and 3, with tables dropped into the spaces between, and a mattress laid on top. Daytime sees the mattress stored bridging across the top bunks. Biggest kid gets a hammock swinging above driver's seat, suspended by superpowered hooks normally used in aerial cable construction. Twin#2 is in with mum n dad, to act as worlds most adorable contraceptive.
Now whack up some LED ribbon to replace 12v dinosaur lights, and a 22" tv, and we're on our way.
She's scheduled in for a safety inspection on Tuesday next week. He's going to price out alternator upgrades/supplements, too.

Does elastomeric silver paint on the roof not reflect even more heat?

Does it make much difference what colour the sides are? Should I keep them light, too?

Do windows need to be removed, or will foiling them work?

Is it worth putting a closeable vent in the front and rear top panels, where it says "school bus" to get 55mph of air rushing through the upper part of the bus?

Once again, you guys are awesome, and I'm so grateful for your input.

Beyns

 

[Scooternj]

Does it make much difference what colour the sides are? Should I keep them light, too?

Depends on where you want to travel to. Some states are kind of particular about SBY on private buses (i.e. it's illegal). I would (and am because I have to) paint the sides something else. Plus it helps lessen the "Skoolie Discrimination Factor" if it doesn't look like a school bus.

 

[bansil]

okay me confused

If you swap seat and remove one, then have tables both drop down, the beds will be waayyy short...anyways that is 2 beds down and 8 more to go

that will take 3 stacked by 6 ft long on both sides (not much space for even turning over)

and then 2 left...a queen size bed in back is another 6 ft

That is about 18/20 ft of space already

and 3 small people is Veerryy tight on bus seats when sitting 6 at table

cooking for 10 takes some room atleast 4 ft if not more and a bath needs atleast 3 or 4 ft

How much space do you have behind drives seat??

 

[beyns]

No queen in the back, bansil. The queen is rows 1 and 3, with a gaucho table bed, sleeping sideways across the bus. Building the bunks from canvas keeps them thin to maximise space. I'll post a floor plan later, and you'll see.

 

[bansil]

Okay, I must have combined 2 different builds I didnt catch the hammock and such...it's going to be tight keep pictures coming of progress

 

[barbar0ssa]

I'm in a similar position with 6 kids in our bus. I am counting on using tents for older kids as they get taller. When I was younger, I found a little dome tent more comfortable than the stuffy cabin my family stayed in. Right now, our oldest is 10.

I'm going to consider stealing that hammock over the driver idea though...

We are doing 2 bunks, a queen, a couch and convertible dinette for a theoretical capacity of 9, but probably not 9 adults...

 

[Tango-SKO]

These days you can get alternators that put out more than enough juice to run one or two a/c units while going down the road. Not giant units but mine (250 amp run through an inverter) will handle that load. Big rigs, fire trucks, EMT vehicles do it all the time. Some of them run 2 or more 370 amp alts.

 

[ArmyChap]

Tango: Can you direct us to a source for such alternators? I live and travel in the south-- mostly in the summers. AC is a big hangup in my planning... if I could run 2 rooftops AC's off the engine that would be great! Even better if I could also run those same AC's on shore power when docked.

 

[Hank's P-O-S]

Tango: Can you direct us to a source for such alternators? I live and travel in the south-- mostly in the summers. AC is a big hangup in my planning... if I could run 2 rooftops AC's off the engine that would be great! Even better if I could also run those same AC's on shore power when docked.

Here is one that will do 430 amps at 12 volts. I think they are made for fire trucks.

55SI High Output Brushless Heavy Duty Alternator | 250, 275 Amp Brushless Alternator | Delco Remy | Delco Remy

Now, I'm not sure where one can buy one but it's a start !

 

[family wagon]

All I can say is "wow!"

Do watch out for those performance curves, though: that 430 amp unit is near its rating at 6000 and achieves its rating only at 9000 alternator RPM and at 77F/25C. No engine bay runs at that temperature, at least not in summer! It de-rates to about 380 amp (about -12%) at 200F/93C which seems a much more likely operating point.

By the way: "firetruckparts.com" wants US$1920 for that 55SI.

 

[beyns]

I got two triple bunks in yesterday. Tested them out. Kids think they are great.

Bus was parked in shade, windows open, no ac. It was fine to work in all day.

 

[ArmyChap]

Beyns, we think alike! My plans are very similar to yours. Thought about using Army stretchers for the kids' bunks. Would love to see pics of your setup... Put some kids on the bunks so we can see how much headroom there is.