Dash mileage vs reality - a warning

[Douggy]

Hi all

So I bought my bus at auction, too far from home to visit. It was advertised as having 135k miles.

Chatted to the school’s bus barn and they suggested I get that bus instead of the other one they had listed, as it had lower miles. I asked for maintenance records but they never ever materialized.

Maybe, stupidly, I went ahead and got the bus. My chats with the bus barn made me feel somewhat confident in my purchase. And she was the size I was after (shorty 8 window handi bus with a dt466e, a 2000, but with an at545 - can’t have everything I guess).

Anyway, she sounds good, and no problems yet (besides a slow shift issue I continue to case).

You can imagine my disappointment when I plug in a blue fire reader and the true mileage of the bus comes up. 270K.

Got to say it has rattled my confidence in driving her knowing she has twice as many miles on her as I thought. And I worry about what big expenses I may now have sooner than I planned.

I guess this is a reminder to people looking to buy a bus that dash swaps occur, due to broken solder joints mainly. Just cos you dash says your bus is low miles, odds are, she ain’t.

 

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Something the more seasoned of us could have warned you about, and has been discussed in many threads here. It really does pay to do your research, folks. I would suggest, however, if your AT545 fails, to do an MT643 swap. Much better than the AT545.

As an aside, engine hours are also a concern, especially with low miles.

 

[Shamoke]

Low miles with high hours means lots of idle time which can be a bad thing. High mileage with average hours means lots of highway driving which is a good thing, typically found on an activity bus. Don't let the mileage scare you too much, that dt466 is a solid engine and can last a million miles with proper care.

 

[cadillackid]

another thing to look at is if you are looking at the computer verify the VIN and engine serial number as someone couldve swapped the computer out with a unit from another identical bus and thus the VIN and ESN would be diferent so you'd know not to trust any of it..



the other thing to note is that the cracked version of navistar ServiceMaxx can change ANY parameter.. and I mean ANY parameter includinng the hours / miles, zero out the tattle-tales, Horsepower, EFRC etc (even deletes on Maxxforces).. now granted most people have no idea how to obtain said Servicemaxx and use it if they do but im just saying it does exist..



what that means to me is check the health of the engine and go by that more than miles / hours.. if the maint records are available fro mthe school go by those..

-Christopher

 

[musigenesis]

135K to 270K is a pretty harsh reality check. I got my Blue Fire last week and I was terrified of how much worse the true mileage was going to be than the 152K on my odometer. Luckily the true is only 156K, which means I really do have a DT466e with less than 40K on it after a rebuild.

 

[Brad_SwiftFur]

In my case, my dash was about ... I forget the exact numbers, but not too far off the computer mileage. Something like 215K on the dash and 219K on the computer. Hours was similar, within a couple hundred hours of the respective readings, both showing 10K-ish hours.

 

[musigenesis]

In my case, my dash was about ... I forget the exact numbers, but not too far off the computer mileage. Something like 215K on the dash and 219K on the computer. Hours was similar, within a couple hundred hours of the respective readings, both showing 10K-ish hours.

My true hours were about 400 less than what's showing on my dash. Not sure how that could come about. Maybe time spent backing up is subtracted instead of added?

 

[Shamoke]

My true hours were about 400 less than what's showing on my dash. Not sure how that could come about. Maybe time spent backing up is subtracted instead of added?

Hours are the total time the key is in the on position I believe and are never subtracted. It could be that the dash reads hours of key "on" time and the computer reads engine "running" time, that would explain the difference.

 

[thesantoros]

Is it worth getting a reader? Any suggestions on which one to get? We’re going the going to do a final inspection and pick up our bus on Monday, (new to this so) never would have thought to check the mileage this way!

 

[musigenesis]

Is it worth getting a reader? Any suggestions on which one to get? We’re going the going to do a final inspection and pick up our bus on Monday, (new to this so) never would have thought to check the mileage this way!

This is the BlueFire: https://bluefire-llc.com/website/500k-j1939j1708-ios-adapter

I don't know if your Mercedes will have the same kind of connector. You may need an adapter. You'll also need a tablet or phone of whatever flavor, and then you just install the BlueFire for Trucks app (for that platform) and connect to the BlueFire device after you've plugged it in and turned the key on.

I jokingly hooked mine up to a little iPod Touch that I have, thinking that it would be completely unusable, but it actually works fine with the text gauges and I can read all the values no problem. I only use mine as a backup for when my physical dashboard freezes (which is very often).

I would absolutely bring a BlueFire and a tablet with me to go pick up (or even just to look at) a bus. If you see a serious mileage discrepancy you can bail (bale?) out or use it to negotiate a price drop.

Edit: I'm actually a mobile app programmer, and it just dawned on me a simple way in which a BlueFire could be used by an unscrupulous buyer to trick a seller into thinking a bus had more miles than it really did. If I were selling a bus, I would also have my own BlueFire handy to expose any discrepant numbers.

 

[BeNimble]

You would expect a seller to provide you the actual mileage.
For normal cars and trucks it is a felony to 'tamper' with the mileage, so when they swap gauges, that would be a felony. Now selling them 'as-is' may release them from liability,
and all auction afaik are 'as-is'. A reseller on the other hand, has no such protection.

 

[thesantoros]

This is the BlueFire: https://bluefire-llc.com/website/500k-j1939j1708-ios-adapter

I don't know if your Mercedes will have the same kind of connector. You may need an adapter. You'll also need a tablet or phone of whatever flavor, and then you just install the BlueFire for Trucks app (for that platform) and connect to the BlueFire device after you've plugged it in and turned the key on.

I jokingly hooked mine up to a little iPod Touch that I have, thinking that it would be completely unusable, but it actually works fine with the text gauges and I can read all the values no problem. I only use mine as a backup for when my physical dashboard freezes (which is very often).

I would absolutely bring a BlueFire and a tablet with me to go pick up (or even just to look at) a bus. If you see a serious mileage discrepancy you can bail (bale?) out or use it to negotiate a price drop.

Edit: I'm actually a mobile app programmer, and it just dawned on me a simple way in which a BlueFire could be used by an unscrupulous buyer to trick a seller into thinking a bus had more miles than it really did. If I were selling a bus, I would also have my own BlueFire handy to expose any discrepant numbers.

Thanks for the link! Amazon one day shipping, even for Sunday delivery

 

[Brad_SwiftFur]

If you go to the actual BlueFire website and use the promo/coupon code AMAZON, you'll get like $20 off.

 

[cadillackid]

you can also save money if you dont plan to use any apple devices with your bluefire and buy the non apple version.. it costs less. so if you are going to use windows or android and never apple then you dont need to spend the money for the apple-capable bluefire

 

[musigenesis]

If you go to the actual BlueFire website and use the promo/coupon code AMAZON, you'll get like $20 off.

Oh yeah, thanks for mentioning that. I couldn't figure out why the price on the site was higher than what I had paid.

Getting it overnight might end up being more expensive, though, since BlueFire charges for a wide variety of different shipping options. Mine was I think $8 for priority mail and it arrived three days later.

 

[Derski]

I had a similar situation with bus we bought in October. It is a 2002 Amtram dt466e with a md3060 handicap bus with a lift. 30 feet. Rust free!!! Runs like a top. Dream come true.
Anyways...it was only in service for 10 years until it's route got cancelled and so it was a sub bus rarely got used. Odometer stated 160000. Blue fire came a couple days later and stated 245000 on the computer. It came from a responsive and up front school district with all the records. They never swapped the dash or the ecm. The records are consistent with the 160000 miles. I even called the garage manager to see if they had any insight. He was at a loss for the discrepancy and apologized. He couldn't explain it. Now I don't know which numbers to believe... Hours were close. 9000 on the dash 9100 on the computer.
So you say there is a way to see engine VIN on the ecm? Can this be seen with blue fire? Or do you need service maxx software?

 

[EastCoastCB]

I had a similar situation with bus we bought in October. It is a 2002 Amtram dt466e with a md3060 handicap bus with a lift. 30 feet. Rust free!!! Runs like a top. Dream come true.
Anyways...it was only in service for 10 years until it's route got cancelled and so it was a sub bus rarely got used. Odometer stated 160000. Blue fire came a couple days later and stated 245000 on the computer. It came from a responsive and up front school district with all the records. They never swapped the dash or the ecm. The records are consistent with the 160000 miles. I even called the garage manager to see if they had any insight. He was at a loss for the discrepancy and apologized. He couldn't explain it. Now I don't know which numbers to believe... Hours were close. 9000 on the dash 9100 on the computer.
So you say there is a way to see engine VIN on the ecm? Can this be seen with blue fire? Or do you need service maxx software?

tire size could have been changed?

 

[Shamoke]

tire size could have been changed?

The dash odometer reads from the same sensor that the computer reads from so tire size would affect both the same.

 

[Danjo-SKO]

The bus barn where I got mine burned me by erasing the DTCs. Fortunately it was just the turbo that was bad. It’s advisable for anyone buying a bus to read the codes and if the computer comes up blank to be suspicious.

 

[rossvtaylor]

The last two buses we bought were sequential VIN numbers, from the same governmental entity. The digital odometer indicated about half the miles that the seller and the service records reported...and the BlueFire provided another figure...and of course the hubometer gave yet another figure. Condition, condition, condition...