Diagnosing Loss of Power

[RollingBoundless]

In need of some help from a few subject matter experts!

My bus is a 2004 International 3000 series RE. The engine is a DT 466. Recently was driving down the road. My warning light came on and lost power briefly. After about a mile everything was normal. The weird part is when the light went away, I lost power.

I pulled over and started reading codes. I did shut the bus off, so they came up inactive. The codes shown were:
333 - Injection Pressure higher/lower than desired &
122 - MAP signal out of range LOW

I have seen 333 before as it seems that even while active the engine performance isn’t affected and usually kicks on when engine gets up to operating temp while on heavy load such as a hill. I have not seen code 122 before

Any help on where to start will be great!

 

[ewo1]

In need of some help from a few subject matter experts!

My bus is a 2004 International 3000 series RE. The engine is a DT 466. Recently was driving down the road. My warning light came on and lost power briefly. After about a mile everything was normal. The weird part is when the light went away, I lost power.

I pulled over and started reading codes. I did shut the bus off, so they came up inactive. The codes shown were:
333 - Injection Pressure higher/lower than desired &
122 - MAP signal out of range LOW

I have seen 333 before as it seems that even while active the engine performance isn’t affected and usually kicks on when engine gets up to operating temp while on heavy load such as a hill. I have not seen code 122 before

Any help on where to start will be great!

Do you have Servicemaxx diag software ???
Your gonna need it !

I have a similar/same bus. Last summer my throttle position sensor went out. Was causing loss of acceleration which feels just like a loss of power but my engine warning lamp did go on.

Right now i got a loss of power again but this time i am suspecting my turbo actuator, tps sensor is responding just fine.

In between these two issues i had purchased an off brand IPR valve. While the bus started and ran, when viewing its operation thru service max the readings were not stable, bounced like crazy. Point is you need service maxx to check is operation.

The turbo actuator is easy to test. I forget the exact steps but one of them is with engine off, move the actuator by hand it should travel smoothly and then bounce back.

The other method you will need a helper as you need to turn the key switch on and visually observe the actuator working. Cant do that by yourself on an RE unless you got a super long arm and can reach the rear key switch!

 

[RollingBoundless]

Do you have Servicemaxx diag software ???
Your gonna need it !

I have a similar/same bus. Last summer my throttle position sensor went out. Was causing loss of acceleration which feels just like a loss of power but my engine warning lamp did go on.

Right now i got a loss of power again but this time i am suspecting my turbo actuator, tps sensor is responding just fine.

In between these two issues i had purchased an off brand IPR valve. While the bus started and ran, when viewing its operation thru service max the readings were not stable, bounced like crazy. Point is you need service maxx to check is operation.

The turbo actuator is easy to test. I forget the exact steps but one of them is with engine off, move the actuator by hand it should travel smoothly and then bounce back.

The other method you will need a helper as you need to turn the key switch on and visually observe the actuator working. Cant do that by yourself on an RE unless you got a super long arm and can reach the rear key switch!

I have been reading some of your posts. And I have had very similar issues. My throttle position sensor has gone bad twice. I have changed the IPR as well. So very similar issues. I had a new set of injectors put in 2 months ago a long with a new turbo as well.

To answer your question, I do have Servicemaxx. Recently just starting using it. I am still learning it to say the least…

I will look into testing the turbo actuator and check that out tomorrow with daylight.

I know some potential issues for 333 could be the HPOP, IPR, or even ICP. Any way I can test those? I do have limited resources as I am stranded with this power issue.

Also, for the MAP code.. Would you suggest swapping out the sensor?

Seems like every couple months I’m losing power some way or another

 

[ewo1]

I know some potential issues for 333 could be the HPOP, IPR, or even ICP. Any way I can test those? I do have limited resources as I am stranded with this power issue.

Also, for the MAP code.. Would you suggest swapping out the sensor?

Seems like every couple months I’m losing power some way or another

Last year when I had IPR issues I tried to take mine apart in order to clean it. well I dropped a small pin from inside the IPR so I never got to try it out after cleaning.

Cleaning it is easy, some brake cleaner is all you need. You will need a needle or a fine pin in order to clean it.

Take IPR out, spray exterior clean, Insert a fine needle into the IPR throat, there is a small spring in there so push in with very little pressure. Hold the spring open and spray away with brake cleaner.

now I am by no means a diesel mechanic but yes I do work on and fix my engine all as a BIG result from the help & sharing that goes on here in the forum. Hang tight I am sure someone will chime in....

Why clean the IPR???

It is a very simple device, electric magnet opens and closes the "pin" valve, controlled by the ecm. That's it! no other moving parts! So if your oil gets nasty or any kind of sludge or even moisture can bind up the pin valve. worst case scenario, you clean it and it still don't work.

OEM IPR's run around $400 bucks...don't buy a chinese knockoff! It will not hold up for long.

I am not saying this is your problem but it also is an easy repair attempt, one that I would try before spending another $400 bucks for a new one. As it is right now I have a new one installed on the engine and the old one is "Cleaned" and in a zip lock bag that stays in the bus for just in case....

since you got service maxx, check for codes before you start the engine. when you begin cranking the engine look at your IPR & ICP readings. write down what they are while cranking and also when running. This info will help others out with troubleshooting suggestions.

 

[ewo1]

Here is a simple thread that talks about the turbo bounce test.

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/dt466e-turbo-wastegate-issue-37239.html

 

[RollingBoundless]

Take IPR out, spray exterior clean, Insert a fine needle into the IPR throat, there is a small spring in there so push in with very little pressure. Hold the spring open and spray away with brake cleaner.

now I am by no means a diesel mechanic but yes I do work on and fix my engine all as a BIG result from the help & sharing that goes on here in the forum. Hang tight I am sure someone will

since you got service maxx, check for codes before you start the engine. when you begin cranking the engine look at your IPR & ICP readings. write down what they are while cranking and also when running. This info will help others out with troubleshooting suggestions.

Totally makes sense. I’ll get the IPR cleaned out then and will record some data on desired and actual pressure. Hopefully that data will allow some of the diesel mechanics on here help me out.

The bus runs and technically can get to our next spot, but could be slow moving with this loss of power at random times. So would like to get this solved before moving again. Stranded just outside Tulsa, OK. Appreciate the pointers that I will take a stab at tomorrow.

 

[RollingBoundless]

Sweet! Thanks!

 

[ewo1]

Sweet! Thanks!

Here is a training guide for turbo servicing...

I'm kinda hoping my loss of power issue is the the same as yours........
I haven't worked on mine yet....

 

[RollingBoundless]

Sounds good. I will get back to the thread once I’m able to check the actuator out.

I hope so too! If someone that sees this with the right experience, they can knock out two birds with one stone.

 

[NestoRides514]

In need of some help from a few subject matter experts!

My bus is a 2004 International 3000 series RE. The engine is a DT 466. Recently was driving down the road. My warning light came on and lost power briefly. After about a mile everything was normal. The weird part is when the light went away, I lost power.

I pulled over and started reading codes. I did shut the bus off, so they came up inactive. The codes shown were:
333 - Injection Pressure higher/lower than desired &
122 - MAP signal out of range LOW

I have seen 333 before as it seems that even while active the engine performance isn’t affected and usually kicks on when engine gets up to operating temp while on heavy load such as a hill. I have not seen code 122 before

Any help on where to start will be great!

I believe the engine that you have is a DT 466E. 333 the ECM doesn’t monitor high pressure fuel, but it does monitor injection control pressure which is the amount of oil pressure in the high-pressure oil system. The engine uses high-pressure oil to push fuel through the injectors. That’s what that code refers to. It usually means that the ECM is seeing in either unusually high or unusually low amount of high-pressure oil. More likely it’s a low oil pressure issue. The ICP sensor may be reading wrong if you inspect the sensor and you see oil coming through the connector that’s usually indication that the sensor is leaking and it will be wrong. If you can check to see what the sensor pressure reading is when the engine is on, but not running, it shouldn’t be more than 100 to 150 psi, anything more than that than the sensor is biased. Other things that can cause that are issues with the injector seals, overtime the seals will crack and break and will cause low high pressure oil. Something else that can cause that issue is the IPR which is the injection pressure regulator. Typically you don’t see an issue with the regulator unless some of those regulars have a screen in them on the end that will break that’s an indication that you have an issue with a high-pressure oil pump typically, what happens there is you’ll pick up trash from the oil pan And as that screen clogs, it will actually break and cause issues with the regulator itself. Other things that can happen is that the regulator is controlled electrically and the connector pigtail is damaged internally. If there’s oil in that connector, your regulator is leaking oil through the wiring which means you would need a pigtail and a regulator. Worst case scenario would be an issue with the high-pressure oil pump, which does happen also.

 

[ewo1]

Something else that can cause that issue is the IPR which is the injection pressure regulator. .....

Other things that can happen is that the regulator is controlled electrically and the connector pigtail is damaged internally.

I am glad you mentioned this!

I know 100% my pigtail clip is damaged...I messed it up back when I put in the new IPR when I was in Miami. Drove back home to cen-tex with no power loss issues but.... maybe it finally got loose?

gonna check this out tomorrow

Thanks for mentioning this!

 

[cadillackid]

a 333 code along with an actual engine stumble tells us a couple things..


it tells us that the ICP is probably still good. why? because the computer sees the HPOP pressure(ICP reading) wasnt able to make the desired setpoint, the stumble tells us that the low pressure is likely the truth.. if the pressure truly reached or even exceeded the desired pressure but the sensor told us it was low erroneously you wouldnt see a stumble, it would run just fine..



so i would def take ewo1 advice and check the IPR next, an IPR that fails to respnd to the computer's request it would result in a 333 with an engine stumble. there is no feedback loop to the computer that the IPR actually responded to the increased duty-cycle request.



HPOPs can and do wear out... the one on my T444E just couldnt make the requested pressure and needed replaced...



of course other things already addressed here can result in 333 codes... injector O-rings are a big and sort of common one.. IPR works fine, HPOP passes deadhead test in flying colors, then look to injector O-ring failures as a possibility..

 

[RollingBoundless]

Thank you to all 3 of you! I’m glad we have this community so willing to help and share information.

FYI: I replaced the IPR and pigtail in June and put in a whole set of injectors in October as two went bad almost at the same time.

I have checked the ICP for signs like oil. Everything seems good there.

I forgot to take screenshots of what my desired and actual injection pressure was while having the scan tool hooked up. Seemed to bounce above and below desired but not too far off. I drove to this steep hill by my house and under full load my pressure was definitely lower than desired.

After Christmas checks I will do and get back to the thread:
1. Check the IPR to see if it is gunked up/clean it out
2. Test the HPOP

I heard I will need a special gauge to dead test the HPOP. Can anyone provide a link so I can get one ordered?

Again I appreciate the help you 3 have provided and hopefully continue to provide as I do these checks.