DT466E to DT466 Mech

[halfdime]

So, after an engine fire and after nearly a year fighting with insurance and winning, I am about to embark on the process of converting our 02 DT466E HT to an all mechanical DT466. The main thought is somewhat simply increased power and the simplicity of not needing to chase down potential electrical issues.

Here are my initial thoughts, but I have some gaps of knowledge that I could use some help.

1. Allison Md3060 trans - I believe the TCM to be in tact, but not sure if there is interconnect needed to the DT466E. I have 6the unlocked and would prefer to keep the trans if possible. What am I going to need here?
From a cooling perspective, I plan to use an aftermarket electric fan cooler rather than interconnecting to the new engine like factory. Isolating for increase in engine cooling capacity for the nearly new radiator I have.

2. The mechanical engine from what I understand only requires 3ish wires to run, but I do want engine monitoring of some kind. What is a good aftermarket solution? I feel like I’m going to have a dead set of gauges- going to need speedo, temp, oil temp, boost, egt, etc..

3. I’m targeting a 93-95 NGD engine that is a 230-250HP build with a p7100 pump. Thoughts?

Starting there and have a lot more research to do, but would love some advise and help from someone with way more knowledgeable than me as to minimize the trial and error.

 

[cadillackid]

your current gauge cluster will not work, it is a communicating type..it has a datalink to the ECM. you'll need to wire everything up from the ground on a new setup.


a mchanical engine will have the spots for gauge senders for the ones you need.. on the flywheel housing is a place for an RPM sensor.. I believe the flywheel is 132 teeth on the NGD.


temp, oil pressure the engine has sending unit holes already you can install your own gauges there. volts is easy. fuel just install a new sender and gauge.



your transmission is designed to operate on a J1939 datalink. you;ll need a mechanical to J1939 throttle box to operate it.. and it will work O-K. (the electronic engines run the electronic transmissions best but they will work with just throttle.)..
CAC sells such a device.


speed, your transmission has a single wire pulse sender for your speedo.. I believe its 16 pulses per rev. (they are either 16 or 40 depending on the vocation).



your electric fan will have to have a **LOT** of CFM to begin to cool that engine.. the other issue is if I remember right the RE300 pushes the fan out outthe back... most electric fans with enough CFM are designed to be puller fans and you need a pusher..



the DT466E was based off of the mechanical design of the NGD.. you may find that many of your belt-on accessories are the same.. there are differences between the RE and FE/CE versions when it comes to the fan and such.. do some studying but parts may move over so you may be able to keep your existing fan clutch setup on your new engine.



being an RE, throttle will be your biggest thing... you'll have a mechanical throttle all the way from the front of your bus to the rear.. I dont know how IH did it.. a lot of city and coach busses back in the day used an air throttle setup.. the throttle pedal is an air valve that actuates a mechanical linkage to your P-pump at the rear of the bus.. thus no linkages and extra long cables to deal with.. I dont know if there are retrofit air throttle kits or not or if its something youd have to build.. others with RE busses can comment on how their throttles are set up.. my work with vntage bus rescues of old busses have found everything from sticky bell crank setups to air throttles... but ive never retrofit anything like that.


there are electric setups too.. i just googled this as an example.


https://www.amazon.com/Trombetta-Th...3&psc=1&mcid=fd4a605b8d6c36a79cfdff1511c4d5da

 

[LargeMarge-TC]

Vehicle fire equals Red Flag!
.
What does your frame shop say about warpage and loss of carrying capacity due to loss of temper in the nearby metal?
.
Irregardless of my respect for Mike Rowe and his 'Safety Third' philosophy of exploring potentials, I tend toward the conservative side for our rig.
I drive slow, I stop often.
I stay hydrated.
.
Why do I toss a Red Flag at your project?
a -- every insurance company has access to information about vehicle history ('hx').
With the disaster you describe, I might verify I can operate the vehicle while cuddled in the warm embrace of GEICO slash State Farm etcetera.
b -- Some bureaucrats at the BureauOfJustifyingOurExistence might require inspections after a catastrophic loss such as you describe [auto-destruct keeps changing 'describe' to 'deserve', but I think that is probably premature...].
.
Faced with such significant obstacles, some might choose a different vehicle.
Although, I must admit, I enjoy a good challenge.
.
Tinkering with some cobbled together wiring plumbing, out on the edge of Test Pilot Territory?
I enjoy camping in the middle of noplace a whole lot more.

 

[halfdime]

The bus was not a total loss. The way we approached the situation was using an appraisal from a qualified individual; 3rd party

Also, the fire was not significant. I put it out myself with a handheld fire extinguisher. Mainly plastic, just enough to torch everything electronic.

Also, with the amount I squeezed, liability only moving forward is OK.

Mechanical engine is the best form of simplicity. I agree, I enjoy camping more also. Which is why I’m using insurance proceeds to repair via qualified mechanic.

@nash_thecoolbus

 

[halfdime]

I found a 250 hp P-pump engine in Maryland that I’m looking to have shipped to me.

@caldillackid
is there anything I should know about the engines with a high mount pump versus low mount pump?

 

[halfdime]

@cadillackid

Any way you can point me to the seller for the J1939 throttle box?

 

[halfdime]

Would it be easier to source a circa 1994 transmission to match the engine?

Also, it seems from research that from the right company the gauge setup via CAN could do the transmission signal as well.

Is there a place I can find what actual signals are needed to the TCM for the Allison MD3060?

TIA

 

[cadillackid]

all of the electronic allisons need a throttle to run them..



with a mechanical engine the only signal you can feed it is throttle.. they utilize other signals but youd have to build a box to approximate different signals..


CA conversions makes a throttle box, and also jason at transmissiontuner.com. Xcaliber might also.. the one from CA conversion is mechanical to J1939 so you could theoretically just plug it in to your existing J1939 datalink and off you go..


I would much rather have that 2002 WTEC-III than I would the 94-98 WTEC-II transmisision..



for your mechanical conversion im guessing you'll use an air throttle ..toy dont want a 40 ft long throttle cable.


you can go all mechanical with an MT643 but you go down to 4 gears and lose overdrive... or of course you could manual-swap it.. you'd probably have to fashion up your own hydraulics for the clutch..

 

[sportyrick]

gauges

I did a swap also but gas to mechanical Dt466 with 3060 Allison. Stewart Warner makes gauges that are compatible with signals from the transmission to operate the tach and speedo. The speedo is adjusted by dip switches so you can change rearends, tires, etc and it lets you adjust the speedometer to work correctly with changing parameters. It's easy to set by GPS.

It's my understanding that IH used the same engine block on the new electronic engines until 01 or 02 so you could conceivably use the block you have and change out the front cover and cylinder head, possibly pistons to go back to mechanical. I have no experience with this swap so seek much more information from others before trying this. It actually takes a hell of a fire do damage to an engine to where it is of no use. Mostly aluminum, rubber, wires etc get hurt in a fire and these kinds of fires won't get hot enough to hurt cast iron. I have a milling machine that went thru a hell of a shop fire that burned down the whole building, they gave the mill to me and after sandblasting, rebuilding it's been working great for years, no warp-age.