Flat Towing, Need some info!

[FawnaFox]

Hi, My future plan for the bus is to somehow tow a vehicle (Most likely a Jeep) behind my grand ole bus. I was considering a flat towing option, as my Jeep is very easy to disengage the transfer case and transmission and the like. How should I go about doing such a thing. I also would like to have a conventional tow hitch, In case i need to tow something my jeep can't handle. Is there a way to do such a thing? Should I consider getting a car hauler trailer? What are the advantages and disadvantages of flat towing? Is my bus capable of it?

Specs of my bus for anyone who needs it:
1998 Freightliner-Blue-Bird. 26 Foot long GVWR about 12 tons
Engine: 5.9 L Cummins (210 Horsepower Model)
Transmission: Fuller 6-Speed (yes it's an option, yes it's rare)
I don't know how much it will weigh after the conversion

 

[Ozbozz57]

You can absolutely flat tow with that bus. You'll need to mount a receiver - type hitch on the bus, and some kind of tow bar system. There are many. I bought a used receiver hitch, added a 1/2 inch steel plate to adapt the width of the hitch to the bus frame, and a used Stowmaster tow bar. Then I had to get and install the attachment kit for my car (Suzuki Vitara). Each car has it's own specially designed attachment parts that you permanently mount on the car, then you hang the tow bar on those. There are several styles of towbars - each style will have an array of compatible parts that form a system. You'll need two safety cables, left and right, each one rated for the weight of the toad. You'll also need to wire your car for lights. This is a conversion that connects your Jeep's taillights to the bus's tail, stop, and turn signals. Finally, to be legal in most states, you'll need to install a supplemental braking system, both in the car, and in the bus. This system actuates the "toad's" (Jeep's) brakes when you apply the bus brakes. All this stuff is on the internet.
I got a Roadmaster supplemental brake kit for air brakes. They have a system for hydraulic brakes too. Their systems apply the toad brakes proportionally to the bus's braking effort. It also includes a "Breakaway" system that will stop the car should it become separated from the tow vehicle. I also got the wiring kit from Roadmaster. It all takes some effort to do it right, but the systems are high quality, truly do improve stopping power, and are required equipment in most states.

 

[Tejon7]

I second Ozbozz - you can do it. Like most things in bus conversion, there's a trade-off between money spent and time spent.

First step is getting a hitch receiver on your bus. There are many threads about that here, hopefully one about your same model.

For towing, I went DIY with the NSA brand towbar (ReadyBrute with ReadyBrake) to pull our Xterra. I'm mostly happy with it. In 2021 my total cost was nearly 2k, but I expect that would be more now. You can save money with used gear, but I think it only makes sense if someone is selling a full setup for your vehicle model. Otherwise there's just too many parts that may or may not fit your application. Jeeps seem to be about half of the toads I see on the road, though, so you're in luck there.

 

[#1FordFan]

I have a 94 F700 (5.9L 6BT / 6-Speed fuller) and I tow my 06 Jeep on a trailer.
Full rolling weight is 22K.
This trans is really nice for towing with its 9.01 first gear.

Be FOR SURE to use chains at the back of vehicle towing down to a trailer.
(Air Brakes are QUITE POWERFUL!)

 

[FawnaFox]

I have a 94 F700 (5.9L 6BT / 6-Speed fuller) and I tow my 06 Jeep on a trailer.
Full rolling weight is 22K.
This trans is really nice for towing with its 9.01 first gear.

Be FOR SURE to use chains at the back of vehicle towing down to a trailer.
(Air Brakes are QUITE POWERFUL!)

Will be using chains, it's a given.. but my bus actually has fluid brakes. It's one of those.. no doubt it will stop though.

 

[turf]

 

[nikitis]

I don't plan on pulling my car, but I'd probably end up buying a car dolly that holds up the two front wheels if I was. Less wear and tear on the car as the front wheels don't have to spin. Back wheel axles are simpler and less complex, and easier to replace hubs on them if they wear out due to being towed.

All of the amenities that Ozboss stated would still be required minus the braking equipment because it's a dolly. Still need the wiring to the car though. They do make magnetized lights that can plop on the rear of your car to make it simpler so you don't have to learn how to re-wire your car itself. Just to the bus.

Still gotta get the hitch. Measure the distance of your 2 C-Channels, and then call up a tow hitch guy who can source a hitch. If you buy a winged hitch (How it's mounted to the underside of the bus). The wings go on the outside of the C-Channels, you'll need a couple of inches wider. If you buy an under mount hitch that mounts to the lower part of the 'C' in the C-Channel, i.e bolts going upwards through the channels, you can shave an inch or two off of the width required. Tell the hitch guys what your width is and see if they have an undermount or winged mount with your inches. If you tell them it's for a Bus, they won't be able to help you as no one has a working list of hitches for school buses. So you have to have them find the inside width for Winged (Width between the inside of the wings, and outside of C-Channels). Or the middle of the lower C-Channel for an under mounted hitch. Pick the middle of the lower part of the C in the C Channel and measure the distance between them, and give it to a hitch guy to find you one.

You'll want one rated for 10k lbs. There are some models existing from curtis that will fit some buses, but it's still best to measure you widths, know them, and look up those curtis models and see if it's the same width as yours, if so it will work. If not, then you may have to have a hitch custom built.

 

[FawnaFox]

I don't plan on pulling my car, but I'd probably end up buying a car dolly that holds up the two front wheels if I was. Less wear and tear on the car as the front wheels don't have to spin. Back wheel axles are simpler and less complex, and easier to replace hubs on them if they wear out due to being towed.

All of the amenities that Ozboss stated would still be required minus the braking equipment because it's a dolly. Still need the wiring to the car though. They do make magnetized lights that can plop on the rear of your car to make it simpler so you don't have to learn how to re-wire your car itself. Just to the bus.

Still gotta get the hitch. Measure the distance of your 2 C-Channels, and then call up a tow hitch guy who can source a hitch. If you buy a winged hitch (How it's mounted to the underside of the bus). The wings go on the outside of the C-Channels, you'll need a couple of inches wider. If you buy an under mount hitch that mounts to the lower part of the 'C' in the C-Channel, i.e bolts going upwards through the channels, you can shave an inch or two off of the width required. Tell the hitch guys what your width is and see if they have an undermount or winged mount with your inches. If you tell them it's for a Bus, they won't be able to help you as no one has a working list of hitches for school buses. So you have to have them find the inside width for Winged (Width between the inside of the wings, and outside of C-Channels). Or the middle of the lower C-Channel for an under mounted hitch. Pick the middle of the lower part of the C in the C Channel and measure the distance between them, and give it to a hitch guy to find you one.

You'll want one rated for 10k lbs. There are some models existing from curtis that will fit some buses, but it's still best to measure you widths, know them, and look up those curtis models and see if it's the same width as yours, if so it will work. If not, then you may have to have a hitch custom built.

It's gonna be part of the "big repair trip" My bus isn't currently road legal, because I'm doing the conversion slower, over 2 years.. and the bus will stay in my backyard for the majority of it (my yard is big enough to drive it around, but it's not the same as the road) But I know a guy who has a dealer tag and can throw it on there for a bit, so we can drive the bus around to get things done that I can't do in my yard with hand tools (and some power tools too!) Like a hitch and tires.

 

[turf]

just read your post closer and fyi.....
my bus is a 5.9 cummins, 12valve. 190hp. used to tow with the at545 but have converted to the 6 peed auto.

your 6 speed manual will be nice!

the bus doesnt know the little car is behind it. i have a pickup i will tow too but i havent installed the toad side hitch yet. it heavier, so i hope its as easy as the little car.

i think if i re did my choices, i'd tow 4up. i feel towing is hard on both vehicles. if you really "care" about the tow vehicle, i would trailer it.

never had a problem with a toad (save lights). i've had a blow out on a trailer and not noticed it. cost me a rim. the same would probably total a toad.

 

[nikitis]

I've pulled some with the AT545 now, and I can't even tell it's pulling anything. It's built for torque and that's it's one saving grace. Just wish it was faster.

 

[FawnaFox]

I've pulled some with the AT545 now, and I can't even tell it's pulling anything. It's built for torque and that's it's one saving grace. Just wish it was faster.

The previous driver of my bus said it could get up to 70, when I read the ECU it said that the "max speed" was 81, but I don't know if that's just the limit or if this bus actually got up to 81 MPH at some point...

 

[nikitis]

No, and please do not try it unless you want to hear the sound of a grenade. The ECM allows a higher max speed than the transmission can even produce. 45 MPH is the most comfortable speed for the transmission and it won't degrade much at that speed. Driving at 55 MPH even stresses it for long drives, but is considered okay to do for city driving. At 55 MPH your engine is doing roughly 2400 RPM. Which is considered on the high end. So it's also stressing your engine slowly too just to keep up at slow speeds for the interstate. AT545's are best drivin on backroads when you can swing it.

There's no "Lockup" gear. When a gear is locked it's not stressing the transmission as much, When it's not locked up, it's slipping and causing wear slowly So the faster you push it, the more it's gonna wear and slip and eventually fail. 55 Mph is the fastest you're gonna wanna drive it to keep it in tact, 65 will definitely grenade it. You can drive 65 MPH but you'll be at Engine Max at 2600 RPM. Nearly all DT466E and T444E's are RPM locked at around 2600-2800 RPM. Mine is unlocked because I've unlocked it, and I've pushed it to 3200 RPMs and only gained like 2 MPH over 65 MPH and it wouldn't go a single MPH over that, and it sounded like my engine was going to blow. This was a test to push it. You could potentially be lower geared but you'll need to be in like the 3.xx rear gear axle to only go maybe 5-8 MPH faster so like 72 roughly. Mine is 4.78 and 67 MPH is the fastest I could push her after unlocking my engine.

If you had an AT1000 from the years 2006-2009, you could have 6 gears instead of 4, and the 5th and 6th gear would be lock up gears. But to upgrade to that is on the impossible list for most as it requires significant modifications to make it work. A couple of folks have done it, and there is a company that will do it for you but will charge you $19,000 to do it. With that transmission, you'll be able to go 80+ MPH and only be running your engine at 2100 RPM. 55 MPH on that transmission you'd be at like 1800 RPM, very easy on your engine.

So I don't exaggerate when I say the AT545 is garbage for traveling. It was meant for high torque, stop and go, dropping off kids to and from school. Which is why it can pull a car easily at slow speeds.