Floor Replacement

[New2Skool]

Rail

The rub rail is the seat rail inside?

 

[Docsgsxr]

Nope, the rails on the outside that run from front to back in several elevations.

 

[New2Skool]

Oh ok, I've never known the correct name. So, I've been calling them the exterior ribs. I thought about them if full body replacement was selected, I could restore them, get others to select the best or add others for additional support.

I am lucky because the garage that did the service on my bus has another International gutted out in their bone yard. The engine and tranny are gone and it is just sitting there. I thought about offering the owner a hundred bucks for the rub rails.

A couple of my ribs are rusted through in spots. I would want to replace or replace those sections. I can weld and restore them if need be but, I would rather not just for safety and structure. Adding another 1 or 2 per side wouldn't hurt or look bad overall.

I plan to do a lift of the roof as well, if I were to replace the body panels I would just coordinate the lift and body panels. Replace the body panels, once it is buttoned up, do the lift, add the new body panels where the windows once were.

I have enough sheet metal to encircle the bus top section now, ordering the same to replace the bottom half would be a couple hundred bucks. Well worth it if, it came to it.

So, I don't know. I have so much work into the bus and it is low mileage, I don't want to scrap it just because of rust.

 

[cadillackid]

the rub rails are structural.. but you should be able to take them off to replace metal... if most of the rust is right under the windows then im thinking you would be able to CAREFULLY cut that skin say a 6 inch height of it out and then lay in new pieces.. remember to always overlap your metal in the direction the wind flows.. so if you took off the top 6 inches.. you would replace with a 7 inch height of it overlapping the bootom that you left on the outside by an inch.. so water would run off... just a thought anyway
-Christopher

 

[New2Skool]

Chris,
That is the problem the window areas are fine. It is the bottom half of the exterior walls that are shot. From floor level down is pretty much rotten. The upper rub rails below the windows are also touchy at best.
I can shine light from the inside and see small pitting and openings behind the highest rib.

If I couldn't save the rub rails, I could replace with a 1/8th by 4" strips. I am betting that over the structural aspect.

Yes, I would have to start from the bottom back corner and work my way forward over lapping as I go. Not only top to bottom but back to front.

It is a mess so far but, if I did full replacement I could glue and screw new sheet metal to the body and probably have to remove the inside lower wall.
Replace it with something or more metal bands for interior structure.

 

[cadillackid]

actually you want to overlap front to back.. generally.. at least thats my thought.. so water tends to run off as you drive as opposed to being forced into the joints..

so you would you remove the rub rails then weld metal into them? or just try and find a bus like it and replace them.. ive seen the skirting below floor level rust but thats not nearly as structural for the bus... I havent seen the rails themselves rust out before though..
-Christopher

 

[New2Skool]

Hahaha

Yes front to back, I was picturing the installation.
Starting in the back and overlapping as I go forward.

The rub rails, I could do either.
I could cut out the rusted hole sections and replace with fresh material and weld in.
Or, I could replacement all together.
Or, I could just use 1/8th" x 4" flat strips to replace the rails all together.
I believe the local metal supply store sells long (20x28 feet) thin flat bars for pretty cheap. A hundred bucks and I could have numerous single bands running front to rear or bending all the way to the rear of the skin.

I have 8 sheets of 4'x10' 18 gauge sheet metal that was intended for the lift and window covering.

If I replace the body panels, I would just measure a few dozen times and hang full sheet vertically from back to rear with a aerodynamic overlap. If I am going to replace the skin, I would also lower the skirts as well.

I have several file cabinets, desk sections of drawers and planning to make other larger storage boxes to mount under in time. I would like to extend the skirt lower to give it a more unique, couch style look.

What do you think?

 

[cadillackid]

I cant speak for the percrntage of structural reinforcemen the rub rails give.. but part of the rigidity is the fact they are not flat.. the shape of them prevents flex and movement in more than one direction.. whereas a flat strip is going to have a harder time fighting inward / outward flex of the body... my own personal thought is esp if you are roof raising I want want all the inward / outward rigidity I could get on the walls..

im only going on what I THING would be the case pertaining to how much structure those rails provide.. theres enough metal there that I feel if they were not needed then the bus company would not have installed them. it may be a side impact safety thing... but I could also imagine them helping with "ballooning" movements..
-Christopher

 

[New2Skool]

That is a damn good point.
That didn't occur to me.
Thank you.
I will have to stick to repairing them or replacing them.

Here are a couple of pics of my rub rails and exterior rust sections that are crumbling on the inside.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Plus, who knows what type of damage I would do removing them.
Drilling rivets, grinding rivets, gentle as possible tends to go wrong with me.

 

[Docsgsxr]

you say you have not removed the interior walls? I'd do that first and check the ribs out. If they are degraded to a point of needing replaced, I'd look for another bus that needs the trans/motor combo you have. That looks like it may have leaked inside too.....

 

[EastCoastCB]

you say you have not removed the interior walls? I'd do that first and check the ribs out. If they are degraded to a point of needing replaced, I'd look for another bus that needs the trans/motor combo you have. That looks like it may have leaked inside too.....

I was thinking this too!

 

[Tango-SKO]

Yep...you definitely need to look inside the walls. If the rust is that bad on the outer skin, the ribs themselves may be toast and you'll never have a solid structure. I wound up replacing both the inner and outer skins as my ribs were OK. I could have done a little less but frankly replacing most of the outer skin was easier.

 

[New2Skool]

Walls

Hey Guys sorry for my delayed response.
No the interior walls are gone, just the lower section / seat rail section is still in place.

When, I went to address the rust in in and above the rear wheel well I noticed the rust on the inside face of the outer skin.

As, I looked between each rib section I found more and more areas of concern. I did a rough estimate of ripping out and patching parts of body panels.

I broke it down to two parts, above floor and below floor outer skin sections. Once, I hit a dozen out of about two dozen I had to face the possibility of replacing everything rather than having patch work like the Partridge bus.

The ribs above the wheel wells, the bottom foot or so are horrible. Both ribs above the rear wheel wells don't connect to the floor or anything. They just dead end, which surprised me. So, losing the bottom foot or two doesn't seem to impact the immediate structure since they are not attached to anything haha.

If, I replace the skin. I will add structural reinforcements for those ribs as well as new wheel wells. I was told that the lower interior wall / seat rail was structural and to leave it alone.

If I am going to reskin the outside, I guess it wouldn't hurt to replace the lower interior wall section too.

The rest of the ribs look good enough. Nothing a little attention with the skin removed wouldn't solve.

 

[Robin97396]

That's tough luck on the rust issue. You've been making such nice progress.

 

[New2Skool]

Oh don't worry Robin, it will get there.
As Clark Griswold once said,
"This is a full blown mission"

As my plan starts to formulate in my mind for replacing the skin.
I am starting to see a new vision of my Bus taking shape.
A lot more work but hey, it is a labor of love.

 

[Robin97396]

Every setback is an opportunity to do something new. Naaaa, actually it just sounds like a lot of work.

Yeah, I'm not sure I've fallen for this bus yet. I think we just need to get to know each other a little. The other day someone said their medium bus like this was varsing on the highway. I didn't know what that is but I do know what it's like to try to keep this thing in the center of a lane. Nice tiny house, but it drives like... well it varses.

 

[New2Skool]

Work Exam

Hello Folks,
I snuck the Bus to work this afternoon as one of the maintenance guys is a retired diesel mechanic.
He was kind enough to give the bus a look.
He confirmed the body panels are cooked.
The ribs are in good order.
The rust on a couple of the ribs needs attention but, he said once the skin is off a little TLC would get them back to ship shape.
The rub rails are for the most part dead.
He suggested a few things:

1. Contact local shops and get estimates on having new rub rails made or having new replacement rub rails designed (2" angle iron cut or steel tubing, folded, squared and pre drilled) to attach as replacement rub rails.)to replace these rails.

2. Rather than riveting the new skin on to contact a few body shops as new glues and adhesives work better than welding or rivets given the industrial size of our bus rivets.

3. Once the skin is off, do floor section replacement and rust removal to the under carriage.

Once the rub rails problem is solved, the undercarriage is ready and the floor is done, then button up the skin. He told me to prime everything before hand too.

I am planning to change the bus a little, doing a lift and extending the skirt down about 8 inches. That way, two 4 foot panels will fit perfectly without needing to shorten or cut several sheets of steel for the skin.

What do you guys think?

 

[Tango-SKO]

If you are replacing the outer shell, be sure to build in some stiffness along the bottom edge. You can attach something like angle iron or have a shop fold it over double. That's what I did on mine. Keeps it from flapping in the wind and creating sound effects.

 

[New2Skool]

Tango,
I thought of that but, wasn't going to overload the thread by asking yet.
Thank you for beating me to the punch.
I was thinking to had some lighter frame work for the extended skirt and replacement skin toward the bottom of the lower skin.
I need to add structural support over the wheel wells in the walls for those two unsupported ribs plus, more support wouldn't hurt for the original replacement of the rusted wheel well areas.

I think it will end up going well overall, a lot more work but worth it.
Knowing exactly what I have and its condition is worth the effort and material.

Thanks

 

[New2Skool]

Rub Rail Removal

Well, today I got one full rub rail removed and 3/4ths of a second of all four on the drivers side.

It was easier than, I had thought it would be. The only rivets that needed grinding were the rivets mounted into the ribs of the bus. The rest smaller rivets, I was able to pry through the outer skin without much trouble. Two at a time in most attempts.

Here are some pictures of the horrible rust behind the rails. The front few feet of the rub rails were sealed to prevent water from getting in but, the last 90% of the rub rails were not.

It is surprising the amount of rust and overall condition of the skin behind the rub rails. You can see why I have decided to remove and replace the entire skin of the bus. Well, everything besides the roof, it is in good shape.

What do you guys think?