Fortifiying Your Bus Against Intruders Or Attack?

[Papabear-SKO]

the typical crackhead

typical crackheads dont run labs in the middle of no where either

Typical crackhead/methers don't run labs. Its the manufacturer/dealer/user,that you will find in remote locations. I have been on different remote "Bakery" arrests and they always amaze.
*Camp trailers set up to cook on a National park/lake
*Pick-up with a tent cooking on the prarie
*A remote ranch house with no winter access (had to use our 10 passenger snow coach to get there)
*motorhome parked at the KOA
These people have ALL BEEN ARMED with everything from a .22 to H&k battle rifle. The best thing to do is be aware of what's around you. If your just driving by, you will just pass unscathed. Trust your gut on a situation that dosent feel right.

Armoring a bus would be a costly and weighty situation to stop anything bigger that a .22 or average handgun. A standard .223 ball round will go through most vehicles. A .308 ball round will slice through 1/4 steel and still fragment inside. There have been talks and tests done on a lot of different materials to bulletproof. One that suprized me was using thick phone books. Another was building a sub-wall with 2x4 studs, covered with 1/2" plywood and filled with 3/4" gravel. That would add bullet deflection and fragmentation.

Weapons?
A handgun 9mm or bigger. Auto or revolver. Note: a revolver will never jamb and you'll never leave brass laying around. If your a good shot, you don't need high capacity.
A pump shotgun. Remington 870, Winchester defender, Mossberg 500, all good choices.
A rifle. .223 or .308 bolt gun or semi-auto. The russian caliber in the SKS's and AK's is another choice. And you can reach out and touch someone.
The rugar 10-22 is a great all around rifle but has it's limitations. You'll get no respect from a junkie who's popping caps at you, if you return fire with the pop of a .22 Now open up with the roar of a semi .308 and they will go home.

Your best defense is on top of your shoulders. Stay clear of situations you are weary of. Always provide a way out. Actually, as Ice Czar said,I have thought of a trap door just behind the axles in my bus. Escape route, as it were. You could leave, let them go in to plunder and just pick them off as they leave. 8)

 

[Ob1-SKO]

It has been done before, guys...

 

[Redbear]

WOW!

My concern would be to get out of a situation. If you are dealing with pros, you probably won't. With amateurs, my worries are tires and the radiator, followed by the fuel tank. For the radiator, why not get steel channels 3 or 4 inches wide, and weld up a grate. Alternate them so that half face out, and their neighbors face in, sort of like:

[
]
[
]
[

Overlap them somewhat (unlike this example), so that the ends stick slightly into the grooves of the neighbors, and cooling air makes "S" shaped entries. I don't have solid ideas about protecting against the other two worries.

I don't own any hardware, but spend most of my time around people who do. I confirm that Papabear sums up the hardware issure excellently and succinctly. You don't want to choose something that you can only load with supplies from Lower Elbonia. Handheld hardware is a personal choice, as there are a patchwork of regulations to deal with, and very limited reciprocity. For example, the Empire State accepts no one else's paperwork, and the Big Apple doesn't recognize upstate's. I've heard troopers advise travelers who called that they can pass through if the hardware is secured to Federal Standards, but spend a night at a hotel or campground waiting for a breakdown to be fixed and you are a felon.

One option full-timers have mentioned for dealing with the kinder, gentler intruders is bear spray. If I read the advertisements correctly, it is only 20% of the strength of tactical spray, but you can carry it without running afoul of random possession rules.

 

[bikeforthelight]

i say you just put a few speakers on the outside of the bus powered by a couple nice size amps. when they start shooting at ya, you play "the entertainer" at full volume and walk outside naked wearing a sombrero and swinging a braveheart sword. dont know bout you, but that would scare the crap out of me.

 

[Ob1-SKO]

Yo Cheese, ever see the movie "The Gauntlet" starring Clint Eastwood and Sondra Locke? I think it was filmed in Hollywood...

I dont see my Grumman or any bus as defensible position. Long narrow closed end hallway with a straight shot from front to rear.

 

[KuZ]

I have bneen researching fiberglassing techniques recently. Some people, mostly imprort tuners and such, use kevlar to make a wrap over a part or dash piece then cover with epoxy resin so its nice and smooth looking....same tech as carbon fiber wraps..

I looked into the kevlar and its made by kevlar people but its not the same type material as bullut proof stuff, but you can probably source the bullet prooof stuff if you contact the manufacturer from thier website...least thats how it looked to me.

not sure if it would work or not, but kevlar wrapped bus walls might be what your looking for...big $$$ though I bet.

What about flame throwers like on the jaquzui bus only turret mounted for added saftey put servo motors and a cam on the turret and wire it to a control box or radio control box so you can use it from hiding.....btw I would really like to see how he made that thrower.

I personally dont planned to be armed with guns when I go full time, we wont be able to buy ammo for them much longer anyway. I have a very nice overbuilt spear gun which I can hang on the wall next to the picture of the "record sized fish"

Stun batons are a nice choice for hand to hand situations...take a 2-3 day course in some form of stick fighting martial arts and you can be very very effective. I could beat down a bear with one, with the neat side effect of watching it piss itself and flop and twitch.

Over built paintball guns are interesting devices, I have entertained the idea of cast aluminum balls. however a rubber paint ball (they use them on courses sometimes and u can ebay them) ****in hurt and rubber bullets from tactile shotguns can drop a full grown crazie and make him go night night...google used to have plans for alternative paintball guns, like gatlin guns and such.

Bus with air brakes/ or air tank could be built to produce enough psi air for some very interesting weapons, but youd need to build em yourself to get anywhere near enough force...but again probably very cheap easy compared to other more traditional methods....but traditional methods of self defense will be the first to become exticnt, hell already waiting lines for ammo, only getting worse.

I know I am rambiming but good old fashioned potato cannons, filled with your choice of "ammo", I like the idea of small nails and broken glass or home built "firecrackers heh". and flare guns. with minimum effort you could turn the sky into your own personal 4th of july raining burning puncturing pain onto those below.
napalm is easy to make as well.

My thoughts are your weapons should easily not look like weapons when crossing border patrols between states(yeah I know not a issue yet) and yet be quickly and easily usable to defend.

I once saw a fight break out on a construction site...a Air nail gun was used by one guy to shoot the other guy full of nails..turned him into hamburger before he was stopped.

to many situations where having a gun on my person could = detainment or harasment from the man...a box of air tools, paintball equipment, fishing spears etc would pass with little more than a raised eyebrow.

NEver understemate to power of light, a lot of very very high powered lights can make your opponents blind and its hard to hit what you cant see..enought time to drive away mabey...thats why police use huge spotlights at night blocks...you cant see how many there are or where they are.

10 billion ways to kill a man and the gun is quickly becoming more trouble than its worth.

 

[Papabear-SKO]

[quote="CHEESE_WAGON":2105sx3z]All very interesting. But where's your proof that you have actually had / used this type of training?

is there any point in claiming so?
I can claim to be Queen Victoria's long lost talking cat
you'd be unable to prove or disprove it.

The question becomes is what I'm saying plausible?
Are the sources I'm linking reputable?

The answer however was my father was a U.S. Army Major who attended General Staff College and was second in command of an ADA battalion before his untimely death at 31. He got there from the ranks via 82nd Airborne thru OCS and a half dozen other postings.[/quote:2105sx3z]

Czar, you skirted the question. Having family in the services does not certify/qualify you for squat. You - not someone you know/knew. And even after training you still won't know what your made of until placed in an actual situation.

I thank your Father for his service (ex post facto)
If he died at such a young age, he could not have passed a lot of knowledge on to you, you being also a very young age.

ADA - "Night hides not"

 

[Ob1-SKO]

Nominee, Most Amusing Thread of the Month

 

[Griff-SKO]

...Does anyone else have anything USEFUL to add to this thread? PLEASE!!!

I, for one, found the original post an interesting subject as I have been contemplating similar things, such as a combination insulation/bullet velocity reducing material(s) between the inner and outer wall skins. The phone books really appeal for both properties unless you get an H2O leak at a window or something. (Obviously you will have sealed the bullet holes from previous melees, heh, heh!)

Maybe you could try another thread about it for some serious discussion (i.e. fortifying your thread against...)? Maybe Steve would move the relevant posts from here to there?

I don't have any good answers to your question, but the only reason I've kept coming back to it was in the hope that "something USEFUL" would be posted.

...With Liberty, and Justice, (and Industrial Strength Tin-Foil Hats) for ALL!

 

[Griff-SKO]

Another (cereberally flatulent) thought I had was making a projectile-slowing "water jacket" between the skins using box pvc (like pvc fence pickets) run vertically.

pros: They're the right dimensions to fit between my skins with minimal shimming. They would also double as baffled (won't slosh) additional water storage.

cons: Water is heavy. (Not to mention that the first round to penetrate starts filling the indoor swimming pool...)

 

[Griff-SKO]

...I tend to think the phone books would also help insulate as well...

Indeed, paper does have insulative properties. Many people used wadded up paper as insulation in many of the slat-walled structures I've dismantled.

I've also got access to scraps and discards of graphite/poly-carbonate materials used in military applications that I've been playing with, but they too, have their pros and cons.

 

[KuZ]

Why not bulletproof glass probaby can get it in sheets that would "skin" the inside

Why not buy aftermarket humvee panels? here is a link for a quick read about humvee panels. I was going to try to find a link to a dealer but ran out of time.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20040203.aspx

February 3, 2004
When American troops in Iraq first encountered ambushes and roadside bombs, they realized that their unarmored trucks and hummers were particularly vulnerable. While many rushed to attach armor plates to the vehicles, some of the reserve troops who were cops back home knew of better solutions. At least two firms were selling light weight bulletproof composites that could be quickly attacked to police cars (doors, hood and so on). One type, Aztik 100, consisted of light weight, bendable panels. One side had glue on it, protected by paper that was peeled away when you wanted to attach a panel to a police car, or hummer, door or hood. Another product, RhinoPak, quickly developed a set of rigid lightweight bulletproof panels built to fit right on a hummer, including the top. Bullet proof glass is also provided for the windshield. The composite armor will stop a heavy machine-gun bullet (.50 caliber or 14.5mm. These panels would also stop most fragments from a bomb exploding nearby. As a result of recent reforms, units had money, and authority, available to get these armor kits, and many did.

 

[bikeforthelight]

i think this thread is amusing for the obvious reasons. the idea of fortifying a school bus that you have converted into an rv is insane. im not saying it cant be done, but why? i understand there are times and places where it could help...but your in a vehicle that has wheels and an engine, and if you think your in an area that warrants bulletproofing and a waco like arsenal, maybe you should examine the part of your brain that has you parking there. im not saying you should not be prepared in case of an emergency. i am considering having a handgun in my bus. but in my humble opinion doing much more than that is more than overkill. or have i just missed some news report about a rash of boondocking bus dwellers that have been slaughtered in america lately? just my .02 for the thread. like i say, naked sombrero dancing is always more effective. maybe add in some platform shoes with goldfish in the soles.

 

[vonrock]

You should look back over your math.

 

[vonrock]

There are Google searches like this one that will help;

http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/databa ... orge2.html

You were close, but your answer is in cubic feet. A cubic yard is three times that. Cubed, of course.

So you thought you needed 10 some cubic yards. But you only need 10 cubic feet for one panel. BIG difference.

I wonder how heavy that is. It might add up fast, and be a problem for lighter duty vehicles.

What chassis does your bus have?

 

[KuZ]

why not a brinks armourd car conversion? O buy old brinks car bodies and use them as parts to build your walls...

Yes the idea is a bit silly, unless you happen to need it. and then its to late isent it...

 

[KuZ]

Just to clarify, I am talking about AAC (Autoclaved Aerated Concrete) which supposedly floats in water, if this is true, it must be lightweight.

A aircraft carrier floats in water....but its not so light I think.

that tire sealant looks neat except it says max speed 25mph.

 

[Papabear-SKO]

Ice Czar, by your own links you seem to have annoyed people throughout the nation and perhaps the world. Santana once sang "Youv'e got to change your evil ways, Baby" This keeps up and you may have to use your book learned defense tactics for your own sake. I could see a forum started in the future. Snuff the Czar.com You just need to curve your misguided apptitude and redirect your energy.

Shooting a .45 at 13 and a FN at 21. 30,000 rounds is a little less that what the boy has logged at 26YO. He loves to shoot. Myself, 100 rounds every week per dept. regs. and personal standards. Started with a .22 at 7, to a bolt action AR-50 BMG. Have fired everything in between from an MP5 to a type 97 Jap 20MM anti-tank rifle. (Soldier of Fortune conventions in Vegas, are so fun) Ok, now I'm bragg'in

I will also quit letting myself be pulled into this "pissing match" as you called it. In a sword fight, you brought a dagger

Looking down a barrel from the butt end is different that looking down the barrel from the big hole end.
"I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night"

P.S. CheeseWagon, I promise, I will not hi-jack your thread and veer from the topic again. Sorry

I follow with an exert from another forum, you provided.

PappaDaddy
Sapling Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 24
Now you done did it pardner
I like you Ice Czar, that's why I'm going to kill you last! You can insult me, you can insult my country, hell, you can even insult my car, but you will NEVER EVER insult that great American Sir Sean Connery, KCOBE, ever again! I read on a website.............................................
I shall bestow upon you the order of the serial poster (OSP) Second Class (OSPSC) . It’s not as prestigious as that Knight Commander title, but it’s growing in popularity. That "Algae: 5 Startups..." drivel was a few frames ago. Thanks though for demonstrating the theory of serial posting right here in this thread. We didn’t even have to leave the comfort and safety of this thread to see it!

 

[lapeer20m]

I was talking to a fellow I know the other night. We got to discussing the current state of affairs and whether we expect things to get worse. He was in agreement with my thoughts that the future is very uncertain, and that things don't look good.

He was surprised to learn that I am not currently armed in my taxicab business, which is primarily because airport rules do not allow it. .

the airport has rules against taxi-cab drivers carrying concealed weapons inside their vehicles while on airport property? Federal rules do not make airports off limits to firearms, just the sterile areas beyond the security checkpoints. What airport is this? Too bad you're not in michigan as any local government owned (funded) airport cannot create special rules regarding the carrying of firearms, especially in the parking lots!

 

[Ob1-SKO]

Y'all are killing me with this grade school ****!