Gilligan Phantom (1987 Gillig Phantom School Bus Full Time Conversion)

[ComfortEagle]

Hey, I saw your wife posting on FB about your new bus. Firat, congrats. Second, when will it be open for tours? Preferably AFTER deconstruction and BEFORE construction. I've never seen one in person. Would love to compare notes on how they are put together versus "the normal" Thomas, Blue Bird, International buses.

You are welcome to stop by and check it out when it gets to that point. I have a few cars to sell before I really dig into the bus...

Here is a little tour for you. If you want to see many more photos you can always visit http://instagram.com/gilliganphantom

The glass place quoted $279 installed for the windshield, so I'm in. Hopefully this week she will be whole again.

Justin, I have some Phantom questions for you, please...?
1) I haven't dug into the walls yet but from your pic, it looks like the wall rails (that the seats attached to) stay?

2) The floor, based on your experience, I plan to leave the green flooring and build over it. Agreed?

3) There is a cover in the middle of my floor with 4 fasteners holding it in place. Under the cover is access to the top of the fuel tank. I am leaning towards maintaining access to that cover after flooring is installed. No?

Rick
<><

 

[Brewerbob]

You are welcome to stop by and check it out when it gets to that point. I have a few cars to sell before I really dig into the bus...

Sweet, might take you up on that. The Ginger's (gf) daughter both live in DC.

I need to do the same.

3) There is a cover in the middle of my floor with 4 fasteners holding it in place. Under the cover is access to the top of the fuel tank. I am leaning towards maintaining access to that cover after flooring is installed. No?

Rick
<><

No doubt the same as everyone else. It's your fuel pump. You can cover it but if/when it dies, you'll have to drop the entire tank. Some buses need to be lifted a little to then get the tank out from under the frame rail.

 

[Juicifer]

The glass place quoted $279 installed for the windshield, so I'm in. Hopefully this week she will be whole again.

Justin, I have some Phantom questions for you, please...?
1) I haven't dug into the walls yet but from your pic, it looks like the wall rails (that the seats attached to) stay?

2) The floor, based on your experience, I plan to leave the green flooring and build over it. Agreed?

3) There is a cover in the middle of my floor with 4 fasteners holding it in place. Under the cover is access to the top of the fuel tank. I am leaning towards maintaining access to that cover after flooring is installed. No?

Rick
<><

$279! Not bad!

1. Yes seat rails stay. Behind your wall and ceiling panels you'll find some sort of rigid foam board, 1 inch or 1.5 inch thick if I remember correctly yielding R5 per inch. Nice touch, but I'll be chucking mine for all spray foam (will save it all to insulate whatever I can in the "basement").

BIG REGRET: I threw away the back wall panel surrounding the window. Crap!!! Don't do that!! You can use it as a template more or less for anything interacting with the roof like walls, and for the back wall of the bus where it came off (or maybe just save yourself the hassle and put it back up).

2. No huge pressing reason to remove your rubber floor. I wanted to do it, I'm glad I did it, and my reasons were it could smell in hot weather? It was about 350 pounds of weight removed (not that significant) and mostly I just wanted that floor to change. I wanted a blank slate. Next youtube video is about the removal of that floor. My wife will probably edit that this weekend. If you do remove it, use heat! I used a work lamp that produced a lot of heat to get the floor to about 100 degrees and the adhesive gave away. With unlimited resources I'd buy like 10 of them, or use another type of heater to heat up the floor in larger chunks.

3. Yeah keep access to that.

I like your plan of keeping the heaters, keeping the rubber floor, and keeping it simple. If I had done more research into heating options I likely would have kept them and worked my floorplan around them. At the time I just figured when we weren't on shore power we'd be in temperate climates, but now I realize climates can change very quickly and having a good, easy, powerful, heat source like adding a diesel heater to heat those units would be great in addition to having them while driving. Then again one or two of my heaters were quite noisy and didn't seem to work well. I was very quick to remove them but I should have thought it out.

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

A heat gun that is sometimes sold with a scraper blade for 20-30$ will allow you to work as you go to get the glue to let go.
More like a heavy duty hair dryer but it will help a lot verses chicken lamps.

 

[Juicifer]

A heat gun that is sometimes sold with a scraper blade for 20-30$ will allow you to work as you go to get the glue to let go.
More like a heavy duty hair dryer but it will help a lot verses chicken lamps.

Good call. I went for my heat gun first! Surprisingly the lamp was more effective.


I've been thinking long and hard about my exterior and how the roof with it's current access holes contributes to the environment inside the bus. Here are my goals:

1. Ventilation (both passive and with a fan)
2. Emergency Exit (mostly for roof access, nice but not crucial)
3. Skylight (would really like a couple)

I also want to cut minimal holes in the roof (ideally none), and seeing as I have two large emergency exits why can't those three needs (or maybe two) be combined into one already existing hole? If there were fantastic fans that fit a 24 1/2 x 24 1/2 cutout this would be an easy decision (why does that not exist?) Yes I know I can sheet metal over the hole and install a smaller one, but that is work I would avoid if I could. I could also do what
The Voyager Project did on youtube (

) for little money but then I won't get the skylights.

Here's my solution, I haven't seen it done before, let me know if you think it's ridiculous (mostly because of the expense):

I could install 2 really expensive boat hatches that fit my cutout size in place of the emergency exits and since my roof is flatter than most school buses I think I could do this with minimal consequence or fabrication. I could then have my skylight, roof access, and I could hang a box fan up there like in that video above and move a lot of air. I've found these hatches made for boats ranging from $215 (made in China) to $900 (made in the UK). I've seen some in person made by Lewmar and they're extremely nice, heavy duty, with some really interesting hardware. Here's the one I'm leaning toward:

Boat Escape Hatches & Ventilation Hatches

But I've also sourced this one on Ali Baba for $215 not including shipping

Made In China Boat Hatch Marine Aluminum Round Deck Hatch - Buy Round Deck Hatch,Marine Aluminum Deck Hatch,Aluminum Deck Hatch Product on Alibaba.com

and this one:

This product is no longer available.

I've never ordered from Ali Baba before and am not sure quite how that works, so I'm leaning to the first option which looks like a great product.

Yes this is me throwing money at a problem in search of the perfect solution, but I think it's a good solution. The only other thing I can think of is if I can modify the current hatches to accommodate a large piece of plexiglass in the middle and once again use the box fans.

My questions are: how do you feel about this idea? Do you have a better solution? And lastly, are those fantastic fans really so amazing compared to the box fan option that I should strongly consider those instead? Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Robin97396]

Box fan. The hatch is already the right size and it's still viable as an emergency hatch.

The down side is the hatch is difficult to secure.

 

[ComfortEagle]

I've been thinking long and hard about my exterior and how the roof with it's current access holes contributes to the environment inside the bus. Here are my goals...

Justin, I really like the boat hatch idea, but I probably won't be doing it on my bus. I need to take a close look at my existing emergency hatches; as long as they are functioning properly and not leaking I will likely leave them intact.

Love the box fan idea and will definitely be stealing that. For me removing the existing e-hatches, re-sizing the holes and installing the boat hatches wouldn't add enough value/utility to justify the work and money. Although those boat hatches would look pretty sweet and be lower profile...

 

[ComfortEagle]

I could install 2 really expensive boat hatches that fit my cutout size in place of the emergency exits...

I keep thinking about this idea; the wife loves it, for real... Do it right bro and I'm in, with all credit to the Juice.

 

[joeblack5]

We modified the existing escape hatch with a 1/4" lexaninsert. Pictures are in photo album and thread elfbus Elfie.
Very worthwhile., at least for us, and not expansive.
Later j

 

[Juicifer]

I keep thinking about this idea; the wife loves it, for real... Do it right bro and I'm in, with all credit to the Juice.

Sweet! I'm all in on this idea, and I'm glad you're on board. Just having trouble pulling the trigger myself ($ on my mind), but it'll happen.

I've found two solutions one from New Zealand (currently in the US) and one from China, two for $675, and $590 including shipping respectively.

AND I finally scoured the internet enough to find someone who's done it! So all of this credit really goes to the Sasquatters who have already written about it here: Hatching a New Idea | Sasquatters

I've started furring out the ceiling. I'll have 7 1x4's running lengthwise. This will give me cavities for closed cell spray foam to just shy of 2.5 inches which should give me an R-value around R15 or R16 (probably gonna hire out the spray foam). The "ceiling joists" will be 14 1/2" on center, and I'm currently planning for 1/4 inch Luan run across the bus. I'm thinking of fastening with exposed brass screws and brass washers running lengthwise down the "ceiling rafters." Anyways that'll all come much later.

What I'm wondering right now: would I benefit from installing some sort of a barrier between the metal ribs and the furring strips even if it's just some sort of a foam tape? Just wondering about thermal transfer and possibly condensation. Maybe I'm overthinking it. Haven't been able to figure out if there is a "best practice" so let me know if there is one.

 

[Juicifer]

We modified the existing escape hatch with a 1/4" lexaninsert. Pictures are in photo album and thread elfbus Elfie.
Very worthwhile., at least for us, and not expansive.
Later j

Thank you for sharing that with me!! Just checked it out and yours looks great and looks like a really cheap and easy solution. I'm going to thoroughly check out my hatch and see if I can do that too. My hatch's design is different, but it's possible!

 

[BlackJohn]

Sweet! I'm all in on this idea, and I'm glad you're on board. Just having trouble pulling the trigger myself ($ on my mind), but it'll happen.

I've found two solutions one from New Zealand (currently in the US) and one from China, two for $675, and $590 including shipping respectively.

AND I finally scoured the internet enough to find someone who's done it! So all of this credit really goes to the Sasquatters who have already written about it here: Hatching a New Idea | Sasquatters

I've started furring out the ceiling. I'll have 7 1x4's running lengthwise. This will give me cavities for closed cell spray foam to just shy of 2.5 inches which should give me an R-value around R15 or R16 (probably gonna hire out the spray foam). The "ceiling joists" will be 14 1/2" on center, and I'm currently planning for 1/4 inch Luan run across the bus. I'm thinking of fastening with exposed brass screws and brass washers running lengthwise down the "ceiling rafters." Anyways that'll all come much later.

What I'm wondering right now: would I benefit from installing some sort of a barrier between the metal ribs and the furring strips even if it's just some sort of a foam tape? Just wondering about thermal transfer and possibly condensation. Maybe I'm overthinking it. Haven't been able to figure out if there is a "best practice" so let me know if there is one.

"What I'm wondering right now: would I benefit from installing some sort of a barrier between the metal ribs and the furring strips even if it's just some sort of a foam tape? Just wondering about thermal transfer and possibly condensation. Maybe I'm overthinking it. Haven't been able to figure out if there is a "best practice" so let me know if there is one." [/QUOTE]

Carpenters use something like that every time they build a wall on a slab or floor deck, under the bottom plate of the wall. Not sure of the name brand but it is a sill tape of some sort. I think it would do that trick inexpensively, but hey, I'm only a wire puller.

John

 

[joeblack5]

Juicifer, you are welcome,
It was a little bit of designing around the hollow parts of our hatch. I set it up so that I could get a second thin sheet on the inside as to create a dual pane insulation. Mine has some cracks now, not leaking, probably because I drilled the holes not large / accurate enough to compensate for expansion / contraction or may be it was plexiglass instead of lexan?
Good luck,
Later J

 

[Juicifer]

Yup, that's also exactly my top speed: 2100 RPM, direct-top transmission, 4.1 axle, 12R22.5" Michelins. Mind you, I gain 1 MPG compared with doing 67 MPH and 60 MPH, so it's 60 for me. At that speed my engine's in its sweet spot at about 1900 RPM, holding about 60 PSI oil pressure and needing less than 15 PSI boost on level road.

Is your engine DDEC or MUI?

John

Hey John, I finally have the answer to this question. My bus has no DDEC. What do you have and which do you prefer?

 

[Iceni John]

My 6V92 has DDEC II. Some folk prefer MUI, and some prefer electronic control. I've never had a bus with mechanical injection so I cannot compare the two, but I am no longer intimidated by the DDEC. The basic architecture is not fundamentally complicated, and I have a Pro-Link scanner and the DDEC troubleshooting manual to help me if things go tits up. I recently also bought a spare DDEC ECM from Zachers Bus Salvage - I haven't tested it yet or even cleaned it, but the yard owner says it was from a bus he drove to his yard and there was no CEL or SEL showing and it drove OK, so let's hope it's good to go. If not, I can always use it as core for rebuilding. The spare ECM also has its fuel cooler plate and the two 30-pin plugs still on it - yeah! With the scanner tool I can clear codes and even deactivate individual injectors if I suspect that one is bad, plus it reads out lots of info that can verify the accuracy of my gauges. I'm thinking of buying some spare sensors to keep on hand, just in case one decides to die on me.

All in all I think that DDEC is worthwhile for me. I prefer not have to run the rack or deal with fast idle buffer switches or governors or Jake switches. So saying, once the rack and injectors have been correctly set, for the relatively low mileages that most of us will drive our buses they should never need to be touched again for a very long time.

John

 

[ComfortEagle]

Sweet! I'm all in on this idea, and I'm glad you're on board. Just having trouble pulling the trigger myself ($ on my mind), but it'll happen.

I've found two solutions one from New Zealand (currently in the US) and one from China, two for $675, and $590 including shipping respectively.

Justin, I found this hatch on eBay. They appear to be a decent brand, the are $375 each (or make offer) with free shipping, and it looks like they may fit perfectly without any additional cutting. I am not ready for them yet but at that price I may not be able to resist...

 

[Robin97396]

The first one was $255. Some of the others don't list prices until you try to purchase.


https://www.apartswarehouse.com/Product/Show/2018/standard-vent-lid-assembly-w-alarm-switch

http://allpointsbus.com/bus-parts/roof-hatch-pro-lo-.no-vent/4153

https://busandrail.safefleet.net/products/roof-hatches/school/

School Bus Roof Hatches

Stop Arms, Crossing Arms, Roof Hatches - Roof Hatches - Unity School Bus Parts

Allied Bus Sales your #1 source for Bus Repair Parts.

 

[RickyB-SKO]

The first one was $255. Some of the others don't list prices until you try to purchase.

Robin, it looks like these are all regular school bus hatches. Our aim is to replace those with something with with glass and a little more style.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

 

[Robin97396]

I agree with that. Regular hatches are a security risk as I've mentioned.

I may have missed this, but are you looking for a 24" x 24" replacement (hatch size) or are you planning on plating over the hole? Most fan units are smaller than the original hatch size.

I would also like a fan powered vent, but the plastics on those are so light weight I'm afraid they wouldn't last if a tree limb touched the vent. Maybe that's just me because of the brush I drive through on the back roads. Everybody drives under a tree limb at some point.

I've been looking for a vent that would stand up to the frequent abuse I put this bus through.

 

[Juicifer]

Hey all,

Sorry I'm a few steps behind in updating my thread. First of all: hatch news.

I bought two of these yesterday: https://goo.gl/bh72uC I believe these are made in NZ, they fold to 180 degrees, have no struts getting in your way, and they are made for boats so I'm hoping they can take water and tree abuse. There were 2 when I bought mine but the seller updated their listing to one more so I suspect they may have more and are just trying to make it look like supply is low. Two hatches were $667 shipped which is on par with bus hatches that Robin linked to, so I'm very happy with the price even though it was tough to spend that much on something that didn't really need replacing!

By the way Rick I think Maxwell is somehow affiliated with Vetus and the hatch you just linked to, but I like this one way better as it doesn't have a strut keeping it from going 180 degrees which I think would make it tough to climb out of. Also this one can be locked from the inside.

To reiterate what these allow me to do is have two skylights, two roof access points (for whatever that's worth), and two passive or powered vents. My plan is to use two 12 volt fans (for energy consumption): http://amzn.to/2BDu37E (that's an amazon affiliate link just a heads up) and create brackets so that they can hang below the vent either blowing air in or air out and ALSO be removable to be used anywhere in the bus. All without cutting a hole in the roof, or skinning one over.

I'll let you know soon how it goes (they'll arrive Feb 6th and I'll try and install soon after).